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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>If the punters were paid $1.00 for #1 and #3, it still remains a travesty, showing that the deductions do not work as they should, as indicated by Sportsbet offering 1.20 & 1.09 in their adjusted markets, to the same 359% as pre-scratching, which are infinitely better than 1.00.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>When I was betting in the ring, the deductions were announced as "For the win, x% from the face value of the ticket and for the place y% from winnings only", which ensured every winning place ticket won. I don't know whether the same still applies, but do know that no similar order is made wrt corporates, as they all make their own determinations, often varying dramatically - 27% vs 24% is to me wrong, but far from the greatest discrepancy I've seen.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>If you look around, you can find a list of deductions, but they vary - without searching for wide discrepancies, the deductions for the scratching of an even-money shot are:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Sportsbet 40% Win, 22% 3-place, 32% 2-place, while Sportingbet has 42, 25, 35, TAB 47, 25, 35 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>For a 12/1 pop, B365 claim they make no deduction, TAB 7%, Sportsbet 4%, Sportingbet 5%...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>But it can be far worse as they get to determine the odds of the scratched horse. I don't have an acceptable solution that does not involve a bureaucracy cost for that issue, but surely the deduction tables should be standard. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>TAB just pay whatever they deem you are due, and as far as I've been able to tell, never show the deduction, leaving you to calculate, eg, 528/550 = 0.96 so the deduction was 4%, go to their table and try to determine what price they deemed the scratching to be.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>There were 3 late scratchings in one race and B365 paid me less a massive deduction, I rang asking for the deduction breakdown, to be told she would not tell me and "anyway, you got better than top tote"; ignorance, arrogance, both?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I complained to NTRC and for the first and only time they did the correct thing and soon after I got a ring from B365 giving me the breakdown.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-AU'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-AU'> Racing <racing-bounces@ausrace.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob Waterhouse<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:24 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing@ausrace.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusRace] Deduction farce<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From Australian Rules of Racing, Rules of Betting<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>(8) Further provided that, except in the case of a dead heat, no order must be made the effect of which would oblige a backer to receive less than his or her stake.<span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-AU'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='mso-fareast-language:EN-AU'> Racing <<a href="mailto:racing-bounces@ausrace.com">racing-bounces@ausrace.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>L.B.Loveday<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 14 May 2019 12:54 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <<a href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [AusRace] Deduction farce<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>The inequity of fixed-price deductions:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Kembla Grange race 1, Sportsbet's place market before the scratching of #2: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#1 1.35 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #2 1.07 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #3 1.30 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #4 8.00 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #5 1.90 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #6 3.90 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #7 18.00 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #8 5.50 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Which is a typical 359% market.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>After the scratching of #2, Sportsbet's market, still paying 3 dividends, was:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#1 1.20 0.83<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#2 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #3 1.09 0.92<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#4 3.50 0.29<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#5 1.35 0.74<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#6 2.20 0.45<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#7 10.00 0.10<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#8 3.90 0.26<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Again, a typical 359% market.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>The deduction for the place was 27%, giving effective prices:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #1 1.35 0.99<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#2 1.07 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #3 1.30 0.95<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#4 8.00 5.84 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #5 1.90 1.39 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #6 3.90 2.85<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>#7 18.00 13.14 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> #8 5.50 4.02<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Giving 364% new market, but hopefully the unfairness of 0.99 and 0.95 is evident to all!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Even at the way top odds I got, 1.90 #1 and 1.50 #3, that comes down to 1.387 and 1.095.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Just noted that SB only deducted 24% - I got the 27% from the bookmaker I backed with.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>