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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">No you don't need a time for each
going.<br>
If you dissected the times that Tony put up as an example, you
would see that they are all over the place relatively.<br>
Most people that do it that way get, the same inconsistencies,<br>
And remember that word....relatively.....as it's the most
important thing to consider when doing time<br>
One time for each distance at each track is all you need.<br>
That way your standards will tell you the going, probably more
accurately than the official which is after all just an opinion of
whoever is doing whichever track.<br>
<br>
Good luck though as there is so many inaccurate times, wrong
distances, and three zillion ways of giving the section times.<br>
<br>
SteveB<br>
<br>
On 19/06/2018 11:41 PM, Race Stats wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Hi
Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Regarding
Len’s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I’d give
you a little bit of extra information.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Par
times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">If
you’re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Often
you will find that track record times are often on many
races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster
than the rating.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Forget
Class records, they mean very little overall.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Take
the race times and dissect them into overall time, final
sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this
will give you the pace time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">You
MUST have a par time for every going condition not just
Soft, you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Look
at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast
last sectional, then pace time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">You’ll
soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">You’ll
also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all
or most races are above that par.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Course
manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race
day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after
that period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to
Stewards a change in track rating. Ergo, there are many
ratings that are not correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91">Lindsay.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#365F91"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Racing [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:racing-bounces@ausrace.com">mailto:racing-bounces@ausrace.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> AusRace Racing Discussion List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img id="_x0000_i1025"
src="https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait
enough with the concept to come up with anything so
sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, you'll be my first
port of call. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin
Haynes a few year's ago but his stats must be outdated by
now. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For some reason all the replies have
come through aggregated which makes replying damned
confusing. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:1.0pt">18/06/18,
21:27:22</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM <a
href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">
norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a> <<a
href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">G'day Mike,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Thanks for the suggestion.
I got that email too but had forgotten all about it.
Must be an age thing.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:1.0pt">18/06/18,
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM
<<a href="mailto:racing-request@ausrace.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">racing-request@ausrace.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Send Racing mailing list
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
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than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..."<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Par times (<a
href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a>)<br>
2. Re: Par times (<a
href="mailto:mikemcbain@tpg.com.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mikemcbain@tpg.com.au</a>)<br>
3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday)<br>
4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000<br>
From: "<a href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a>"
<<a href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br>
Subject: [AusRace] Par times<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAJfP4b2LkbzL_iqGSn9K+zgy6mwLw1POCwgUSY+pfzH2=<a
href="mailto:rSqgg@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">rSqgg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust
courses?<br>
<br>
<br>
[image: Mailtrack]<br>
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17/06/18,<br>
17:33:07<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000<br>
From: <<a href="mailto:mikemcbain@tpg.com.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mikemcbain@tpg.com.au</a>><br>
To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" <<a
href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times<br>
Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@<a
href="http://tpg.com.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">tpg.com.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Norsaint<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in
an email?.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for
providing the par times. Steven is back in Australia
from Hong Kong and is touring Australia if anyone
would like to catch up with him (he is happy to talk
about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else
racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but
please note Steven has a new mobile number which is
0413164550. His email is still the same viz
<mailto:<a href="mailto:stavros@wn.com.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stavros@wn.com.au</a>>
<a href="mailto:stavros@wn.com.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">stavros@wn.com.au</a>?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Might be worth your while asking Steven?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Racing <<a
href="mailto:racing-bounces@ausrace.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">racing-bounces@ausrace.com</a>>
On Behalf Of
<a href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a><br>
Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34<br>
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br>
Subject: [AusRace] Par times<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust
courses? <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000<br>
From: "L.B.Loveday" <<a
href="mailto:lloveday@ozemail.com.au"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lloveday@ozemail.com.au</a>><br>
To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" <<a
href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times<br>
Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@<a
href="http://ozemail.com.au" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">ozemail.com.au</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Nick,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be
calculated in various ways, times are affected by
track condition (not only on the day, but by permanent
upgrades such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind
direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a
fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero,
one, two? "natural" leaders and whether they vie for
the lead, weight conditions??<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So I never consider them, but I do have a database of
every Australian race for the past 20+ years,
including:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Date,<br>
<br>
Course,<br>
<br>
Distance,<br>
<br>
Class,<br>
<br>
Limit Weight,<br>
<br>
Weight carried by placegetters,<br>
<br>
Condition,<br>
<br>
No of starters,<br>
<br>
Prizemoney,<br>
<br>
and of course Time<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You determine an algorithm for calculating par times
and I'll write a program and send you the results;
otherwise you are just relying on someone else's
methodology, almost certainly without knowing the
basis of his determinations.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
LBL<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Racing <<a
href="mailto:racing-bounces@ausrace.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">racing-bounces@ausrace.com</a>>
On Behalf Of
<a href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a><br>
Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM<br>
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br>
Subject: [AusRace] Par times<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust
courses? <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&</a>>
Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800<br>
From: "Tony Moffat" <<a
href="mailto:tonymoffat@bigpond.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">tonymoffat@bigpond.com</a>><br>
To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" <<a
href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times<br>
Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@<a
href="http://bigpond.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bigpond.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it
through ? it was big<br>
<br>
Is this the type of info you need?<br>
<br>
Who does this?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
Tony<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ball a rat<br>
<br>
900 (firm) 51.8<br>
<br>
900 (good) 52.5<br>
<br>
900 (soft) 53.4<br>
<br>
900 (heavy) 54.6<br>
<br>
1000 (firm) 56.5<br>
<br>
1000 (good) 57.9<br>
<br>
1000 (soft) 59.1<br>
<br>
1000 (heavy) 1.0.7<br>
<br>
1100 (firm) 1.2.4<br>
<br>
1100 (good) 1.3.9<br>
<br>
1100 (soft) 1.5.7<br>
<br>
1100 (heavy) 1.7.3<br>
<br>
1200 (firm) 1.9.1<br>
<br>
1200 (good) 1.10.3<br>
<br>
1200 (soft) 1.12.0<br>
<br>
1200 (heavy) 1.13.1<br>
<br>
1400 (firm) 1.23.2<br>
<br>
1400 (good) 1.24.5<br>
<br>
1400 (soft) 1.26.3<br>
<br>
1400 (heavy) 1.28.2<br>
<br>
1500 (firm) 1.31.3<br>
<br>
1500 (good) 1.32.6<br>
<br>
1500 (soft) 1.34.3<br>
<br>
1500 (heavy) 1.36.5<br>
<br>
1600 (firm) 1.37.1<br>
<br>
1600 (good) 1.37.8<br>
<br>
1600 (soft) 1.40.0<br>
<br>
1600 (heavy) 1.42.5<br>
<br>
2000 (firm) 2.3.8<br>
<br>
2000 (good) 2.6.1<br>
<br>
2000 (soft) 2.7.7<br>
<br>
2000 (heavy) 2.10.9<br>
<br>
2200 (firm) 2.14.8<br>
<br>
2200 (good) 2.17.7<br>
<br>
2200 (soft) 2.20.6<br>
<br>
2200 (heavy) 2.22.4<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Racing [mailto:<a
href="mailto:racing-bounces@ausrace.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">racing-bounces@ausrace.com</a>]
On Behalf Of
<a href="mailto:norsaintpublishing@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">norsaintpublishing@gmail.com</a><br>
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM<br>
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <<a
href="mailto:racing@ausrace.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">racing@ausrace.com</a>><br>
Subject: [AusRace] Par times<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a
href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275</a>>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust
courses? <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a
href="https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&</a>>
<br>
<br>
Sender notified by <br>
<<a
href="https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&</a>>
Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07
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<br>
---<br>
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End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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