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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Yes, but the MBL only applies after 9am (2pm for night meetings).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>A tome follows, but all should at least read the last paragraph.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Of the 3 avenues of appeal - NTRC, Racing NSW and Racing Victoria - my many experiences indicate that only RV has integrity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I had hopes for Leigh Dalton at RNSW as he was a noted punter, but amongst his kowtowing to the Corporates were these two actions:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(1) ClassicBet cancelled my account and paid back what they claimed was my balance (I had no way of verifying that as the account was inaccessible)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Here's the relevant part of the MBL, to the best of my knowledge:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><b><span lang=EN style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>5.7 </span></b><b><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Betting Limits <o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(c) The Approval Holder must not do any act or refuse to do any act to avoid complying with clause 5.7(a) including but not limited to: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(1) Refusing to accept a fixed odds bet; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(2) Closing a person’s account; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(3) Refusing to open a person’s account; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(4) Placing any restrictions on a person’s account; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(5) Refusing to lay fixed odds to any person when those fixed odds are Publicly Displayed; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(6) Laying lesser odds to a person than those Publicly Displayed; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Dalton ruled that ClassicBet did not close my account to avoid compliance - they would say that wouldn't they, but closing it did avoid complying so it would depend on an interpretation of why they did close it, especially as the only bets I was allowed at that time were those under the MBL - but refused to tell me why they did. If they are allowed to put up any Mickey Mouse reason and have Racing NSW accept it (eg "We don't like him ") there is no point to the legislation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(2) As I pointed out, William Hill offered me 26.0 on #24 in the MC while they "Publically Displayed" 61.0. They did not lay it to me of course, as I am not stupid enough to take it, but others might, and yes, it was before 9am when WH are entitled by law to not take my bet, nor those of the many others, but offering manifestly such disparate odds to different people is a strike against the integrity of racing, and on a previous occasion I filed a Racing Integrity Information and Complaint Form, but Dalton refused to even consider it and told me to fill in a MBL Complaints Report, which would have (p=1.001) have met the same fate as my many other complaints. It was NOT an MBL issue, as Dalton "surely" knew.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Under certain circumstances (more later) bookmakers are allowed to cancel bets when the odds laid were in error and that error was "manifest or obvious" whatever that means - I may rate something 4.00, you 21.00 and Sportsbet offer 10.00, so which of us, if any, have made an error that is "manifest or obvious"? Horses are not blackjack decks or dice.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Racing Victoria I have found to be fair and to actively pursue complaints with the aim of achieving proper outcomes - CrownBet have paid unlawfully declined bets and altered their software as a result of RV's actions on my complaints. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>NTRC, I figure almost everyone would know are incompetent and, or, biased (corrupted someone suggested on Ausrace way back by Corporate Boxes at the Japan Cup, MC…).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>To my praise of a Corporate, faint though it may be <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Luxbet cancelled a series of bets I placed, all mid-range, only one to win more than $1,000.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Here's the relevant section of the T&C (standard for NT-registered Corporates):<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><b><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><b><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>1.2.6 </span></b><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Incorrect Betting Information <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Notwithstanding anything contained elsewhere in these Betting Rules, if Luxbet publishes, posts or quotes any incorrect betting information for any sporting event, such as posting wrong dividends or lines, then regardless of the cause or source of such error; </span><span lang=EN><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><b><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> (a) Error identified prior to the commencement of the event</span></b><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If the error is identified prior to the commencement of the event and notified by Luxbet to the most recent telephone or facsimile contact number or email address supplied by a Client, whose wager on that event has been accepted or confirmed by Luxbet, such wagers will be void. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If the wager is part of a multiple bet, the wager will then be re-calculated excluding the event to which the error relates. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><b><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> (b) Error identified after the commencement of the event</span></b><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>If the error is identified only after the commencement of the event or for any other reason not notified to the Client's point of contact prior to commencement of the event, the wager on the event shall stand. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The only exception to this is where Luxbet can demonstrate that the error was manifest or obvious, or that the Client otherwise should reasonably have been aware of the error when the wager was placed, in which case Luxbet reserves the right to void such wagers. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%;text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Luxbet agreed they cancelled before the commencement of the events, and did not notify me, but claimed "</span><span style='font-family:"Segoe UI","sans-serif"'>a manifest error, and our systems were displaying incorrect prices, your bets have been void under 1.2.6". <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>You don't have to be a lawyer, not even a bush lawyer, to understand that "</span><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>demonstrate that the error was manifest or obvious" </span><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>applies, logically and legally, only to (b) and not to my case.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>My rebuttal was passed to "management" and "management" rang me and honoured the bets - the nearest any other Corporate has come was Sportsbet giving me $600 bonus bets in lieu of dudding me $600. It's not quite the same, but likely they can't do the math, and as I used them on longer-priced bets, it got close. Betzero, again living up to their reputation, last week informed me that a $1.23 bet "</span>will be settled at the revised odds" <span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>, but gave me the opportunity to cancel. Yes, Betzero entered into protracted communications about a $1.23 bet. PS, the horse lost.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>So, Thumbs Up to Luxbet.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I'd determined that I was going to make a stand if Lux did not pay up, and NTRC backed them (1.0000001), by taking it to court. Apart from the plain reading of 1.2.6, I had the following argument: each of my bets with Lux was individually evaluated and approved by a member of their staff, so</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> if the alleged errors were manifest and, or, not obvious to highly trained staff, experts in markets, mathematical whiz-kids, how could they be obvious to a </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222'>septuagenarian who has trouble seeing the screen and counts on his fingers?</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Now contrast Lux's action with NTRC's ludicrous ruling in my complaint against WH - they ruled that **even if** WH did not notify me "</span><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> to the most recent telephone or facsimile contact number or email address supplied by a Client" </span><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>- I had proved that they did not by screen shots - the odds WH offered were "manifestly wrong", and "established" that by comparison with TopSports FINAL odds, the DAY AFTER I bet. NTRC advised me to get legal advice, but it's those clowns who should get legal advice; can anyone find a lawyer who will say "</span><span lang=EN style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> The only exception" </span><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>rider applies to (a)?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Of course I seek to bet at odds that are "in error", viz longer than I consider the chances of winning to be - does anyone take odds that they think are "unders"?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Here's a case study - yesterday at 8:30am, BetZero had Sunshine Coast 6/11 at 4.60, while Sportsbet, Lux, WH, Crown… all had it odds-on. It was not until 10:30 that Bzero dropped the price to 2.30 in one fell swoop. Was the 4.60 a manifest or obvious error? The difference 4.60 to odds-on was much greater than the WH/TopSport differential on which NTRC wrongly disallowed my complaint. PS - it got out to 4.40 and lost. So wtf are "errors" in odds? Why can Corporates cancel and punters can't? Should I not have been able to have cancelled a bet on #24 with WH at 21.0 if I'd been stupid enough to take it (and that is surely what they hope; why else offer the bet?).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>LBL<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span lang=EN style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-autospace:none'><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Racing [mailto:racing-bounces@ausrace.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Dean<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 6 November 2017 10:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> AusRace Racing Discussion List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [AusRace] MC betting<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Len,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Have you tried this process....<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="https://rv.racing.com/wagering/minimum-bet-limit">https://rv.racing.com/wagering/minimum-bet-limit</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>