From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Mon Jun 8 10:02:11 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 08:02:11 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Pedro - a system Message-ID: <003401d63d28$0f62d5d0$2e288170$@bigpond.com> Saturday 05/06/2020 commencing at 1400 hours Newcastle R5 winner Snazz n Charm Flemington R5 winner Queen La Diva Eagle Farm R6 winner Ballistic Boy Morphettville R5 winner Lombardo Randwick R6 winner Wandabaa Flemington R6 winner Chapada Eagle Farm R7 winner Rothfire Morphettville R6 winner Really Discreet Randwick R7 winner Classic Legend Flemington R7 winner Creedence Eagle Farm R8 winner Tryzone Morphettville R7 winner France's Boy Randwick R7 winner Dealmaker Flemington R8 winner Vassilator Morphettville R8 winner Just Kappy Eagle Farm R9 Acquitaine That was a busy couple of hours - 17 winners and perhaps as many passed over, at Yeppoon, Grafton, Tamworth, Newcastle, and off shore as well. Too good to be true, yeah, it is, but they were selected using the methods described below. Read on. Pedro Moss and I worked together in PNG. He was the second raconteur I have encountered (the other was my Uncle Bill), and if he wasn't that he was at least an anecdotist, and father of 9 girls. He once saw HM The Queen naked.* In the big towns in PNG there was often a sign stating TAB which meant you could get take away bottles there. There were betting shops, friendless places, which accepted bets up to an hour before the advertised starting time. It was 11 months of not betting for me, but he had a few most Saturdays. Pedro got the acceptances on a telex tape on Tuesday and the final fields on Friday and ran that through on Friday night, the printout was similar to the race fields of the day and the runners prices (the pre race price) were part of that. >From those prices he sorted the first 9 in the market then compared the pre-race prices with his own calculations, priced 1 to 9th and if there were overs he looked at those runners with more interest. Pedro prices out to 9 went 4/1,9/2,11/2,13/2,8/1,10/1,14/1, 20+/1,40+/1 (5,5.65,6.45,7.5,9,11.25,15,22.5,45) and from those his percentages were in the range 20,18,16,13,11,9,7,5,3 which sums to 102% so he had to drop a few to get unders. Most likely he took a set against the favorite and another short which got him 30 percentage points at least. By race time Pedro was pretty certain he had his contingencies sorted. He could count on the tote prices being longer beyond the 6's so he would take a few points out of them. He probably always had picks 7,8 and 9, but those shorter he couldn't count on. He was game, there were no displays, no indicators of a likely price, nothing on the radio either, that information was a definite no go at that time. But at least the races were on ABC, and that is were he was on Saturday arvos, our one day off, in the pool, radio on, footy playing, and every hour or so down to the betting shop, bare chested, bare footed, in the moke, our vehicle of choice at that time. His savior may have been the daily double. His win betting seemed, to me, to leave him a little skinny, 20%, and if you lost that race, you strived to get 30-40% out of the remaining couple to at least finish even. He plonked down $100 over his initial bets and waited and watched. I mean your serve at tennis was delayed so he, we, could listen to the last 5 furlongs in Melbourne. Tennis, bloody hell, you had a ciggie going, a South Pacific lager waiting your return and I'm pretty sure we never got to a third set. It was hot and there were bets to get on, away from the place, a motel at the 4 mile, and that choice more for the pool and steak marinade really. Pedro was sometimes a couple of hundred up, otherwise not, just like the rest of us, but he did manage his money and if there was a bit of it then the wives (plural) got that. Every third week he took the boat out, 4 nights there, 3 nights back, and it was my job to stop everything and do the collecting on Monday. Pedro got back late Friday but more often early Saturday and his pricing of the fields began then and went until it was done. There would have been a swim, several, lit by starlight and a record playing, quietly though, and a steak for breakfast before the betting began again. Our employer stopped the business suddenly and we had a few days to decide to stay in PNG or leave. I went to a job in the Southern Highlands, it's a gas and oil field now. Pedro went east to Indon as a skipper out of Merauke. *The Queen in the nude bit. It was in Adelaide.They, his family and him had a motel on the main road to GlenElg, Anzac Terrace, and the Queen and Phillip and others went past in a motorcade just as Pedro got out of the shower. That's it. He could tell a story, one of disconnected truths but truthful otherwise. He needed a motel to house his children. Cheers Tony -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 8006 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Tue Jun 9 00:22:27 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2020 22:22:27 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Pedro - a system Message-ID: <003c01d63da0$3d2a1c80$b77e5580$@bigpond.com> 2 queries on this - Saturday 6/06/2020 is the day under review, Meruake is a large town, a city now surrounded by rivers and rain forest in an Indonesian regency to the west (not the east as I wrote). The thrust of the system is comparing the pre-race prices (what the paper gives you, or the TAB fixed) with the pricing range that Pedro used. For 5 runners it was $3,$3.75,$5, $7.50, $15 for runners ranked 1st fav, 2nd fav, 3rd fav, 4th then 5th fav. These prices correspond to 33.33,26.66,20,13.33,6.66 = 99.98% Another way to arrive at the pricing range is this: 1+2+3+4+5+6+7=28 to give you a pricing range between $4 (28/7) and $28 (28/1) and intermediate step would be $7 (28/4 - the 4th favourite price) Back in the day Pedro had his 5 runners as 2/1,11/4,4/1,13/2, 14/1 and the 7 runners $4,$4.6,$5.6,$7,$9.33,$14,$28. He didn't dutch these, and perhaps was unaware of it, as was I, although the economist John Hopegood did supply Pedro with a group of Log numbers to enable calculations to be made but that was towards the end of our association and I am unsure if he did use that method. In any event, dutching perhaps was not an option, he, we, didn't know the tote price at any time, until after the race then Monday probably. Today you got the winner of MR8,MR7, MR6,MR5 SR7,SR6,SR5,SR4 And I imagine a majority of anything else. It 'selects' a lot of winners, backing them is the art and the double helped there. From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Monday, 8 June 2020 8:02 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] Pedro - a system Saturday 05/06/2020 commencing at 1400 hours Newcastle R5 winner Snazz n Charm Flemington R5 winner Queen La Diva Eagle Farm R6 winner Ballistic Boy Morphettville R5 winner Lombardo Randwick R6 winner Wandabaa Flemington R6 winner Chapada Eagle Farm R7 winner Rothfire Morphettville R6 winner Really Discreet Randwick R7 winner Classic Legend Flemington R7 winner Creedence Eagle Farm R8 winner Tryzone Morphettville R7 winner France's Boy Randwick R7 winner Dealmaker Flemington R8 winner Vassilator Morphettville R8 winner Just Kappy Eagle Farm R9 Acquitaine That was a busy couple of hours - 17 winners and perhaps as many passed over, at Yeppoon, Grafton, Tamworth, Newcastle, and off shore as well. Too good to be true, yeah, it is, but they were selected using the methods described below. Read on. Pedro Moss and I worked together in PNG. He was the second raconteur I have encountered (the other was my Uncle Bill), and if he wasn't that he was at least an anecdotist, and father of 9 girls. He once saw HM The Queen naked.* In the big towns in PNG there was often a sign stating TAB which meant you could get take away bottles there. There were betting shops, friendless places, which accepted bets up to an hour before the advertised starting time. It was 11 months of not betting for me, but he had a few most Saturdays. Pedro got the acceptances on a telex tape on Tuesday and the final fields on Friday and ran that through on Friday night, the printout was similar to the race fields of the day and the runners prices (the pre race price) were part of that. >From those prices he sorted the first 9 in the market then compared the pre-race prices with his own calculations, priced 1 to 9th and if there were overs he looked at those runners with more interest. Pedro prices out to 9 went 4/1,9/2,11/2,13/2,8/1,10/1,14/1, 20+/1,40+/1 (5,5.65,6.45,7.5,9,11.25,15,22.5,45) and from those his percentages were in the range 20,18,16,13,11,9,7,5,3 which sums to 102% so he had to drop a few to get unders. Most likely he took a set against the favorite and another short which got him 30 percentage points at least. By race time Pedro was pretty certain he had his contingencies sorted. He could count on the tote prices being longer beyond the 6's so he would take a few points out of them. He probably always had picks 7,8 and 9, but those shorter he couldn't count on. He was game, there were no displays, no indicators of a likely price, nothing on the radio either, that information was a definite no go at that time. But at least the races were on ABC, and that is were he was on Saturday arvos, our one day off, in the pool, radio on, footy playing, and every hour or so down to the betting shop, bare chested, bare footed, in the moke, our vehicle of choice at that time. His savior may have been the daily double. His win betting seemed, to me, to leave him a little skinny, 20%, and if you lost that race, you strived to get 30-40% out of the remaining couple to at least finish even. He plonked down $100 over his initial bets and waited and watched. I mean your serve at tennis was delayed so he, we, could listen to the last 5 furlongs in Melbourne. Tennis, bloody hell, you had a ciggie going, a South Pacific lager waiting your return and I'm pretty sure we never got to a third set. It was hot and there were bets to get on, away from the place, a motel at the 4 mile, and that choice more for the pool and steak marinade really. Pedro was sometimes a couple of hundred up, otherwise not, just like the rest of us, but he did manage his money and if there was a bit of it then the wives (plural) got that. Every third week he took the boat out, 4 nights there, 3 nights back, and it was my job to stop everything and do the collecting on Monday. Pedro got back late Friday but more often early Saturday and his pricing of the fields began then and went until it was done. There would have been a swim, several, lit by starlight and a record playing, quietly though, and a steak for breakfast before the betting began again. Our employer stopped the business suddenly and we had a few days to decide to stay in PNG or leave. I went to a job in the Southern Highlands, it's a gas and oil field now. Pedro went east to Indon as a skipper out of Merauke. *The Queen in the nude bit. It was in Adelaide.They, his family and him had a motel on the main road to GlenElg, Anzac Terrace, and the Queen and Phillip and others went past in a motorcade just as Pedro got out of the shower. That's it. He could tell a story, one of disconnected truths but truthful otherwise. He needed a motel to house his children. Cheers Tony -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 10034 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Fri Jun 12 20:00:04 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 20:00:04 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet Message-ID: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au Subject: Vicbet.com MBL Len Looking at all the figures as I do regularly, particularly towards the end of the Fin Year and continually re-accessing everything I am sorry but the Pre-Post Post Fixed Odds, Overseas Betting, BOB, TF, H2H, and the BT, Fav v Field, Odds v Evens, Exotics are no longer available for you.....Your strike rate is incredibly good. I congratulate you on your ability on the Punt, one of the best. Unfortunately with the introduction of the "Point of Consumption" (POC) Tax in all jurisdictions plus many other taxes I have had to implement this change.. You are welcome to take Fixed Odds to win the Minimum Bet Limit (MBL) as described here below: Etc. ********* 26 days, 163 bets at $150 the Place, 17 the Place for smaller amounts (top-up to $150 from other restricted bets - I am a moderate level staker where possible) and they spit the dummy. Then they got even weaker - I waited to test whether they were on the ball with zero allowed WA, tried $150 @ 3.9, rejected and they dropped the price. WARNING: if you do have an account and a winning bet, check deductions - once a figure that did not accord with their published table, once scratchings were out when I bet, later altered to 9:07, 90 minutes after they were scratched and they applied deductions, once deductions initially (and correctly) shown as 2/2, changed to 5/6 before paying. Cheers, LBL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 20:18:04 2020 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 20:18:04 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet In-Reply-To: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Oh, to get a post like that! Disappointing from Rod. What about Topsport. They're meant to be serious bookmakers. On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 20:00, L.B.Loveday wrote: > > > > To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au > Subject: Vicbet.com MBL > > > > > > Len > > Looking at all the figures as I do regularly, particularly towards the end of the Fin Year and continually re-accessing everything I am sorry but the Pre-Post Post Fixed Odds, Overseas Betting, BOB, TF, H2H, and the BT, Fav v Field, Odds v Evens, Exotics are no longer available for you???..Your strike rate is incredibly good. I congratulate you on your ability on the Punt, one of the best. Unfortunately with the introduction of the ?Point of Consumption? (POC) Tax in all jurisdictions plus many other taxes I have had to implement this change?? > > You are welcome to take Fixed Odds to win the Minimum Bet Limit (MBL) as described here below: > > Etc. > > ********* > > 26 days, 163 bets at $150 the Place, 17 the Place for smaller amounts (top-up to $150 from other restricted bets - I am a moderate level staker where possible) and they spit the dummy. Then they got even weaker - I waited to test whether they were on the ball with zero allowed WA, tried $150 @ 3.9, rejected and they dropped the price. > > WARNING: if you do have an account and a winning bet, check deductions - once a figure that did not accord with their published table, once scratchings were out when I bet, later altered to 9:07, 90 minutes after they were scratched and they applied deductions, once deductions initially (and correctly) shown as 2/2, changed to 5/6 before paying. > > Cheers, > > LBL > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Fri Jun 12 21:07:32 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 21:07:32 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet In-Reply-To: References: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <000c01d640a9$ae785260$0b68f720$@ozemail.com.au> Yes, TS are good, except with this: ********** While on the Cranbourne bets, at 8am I asked for $100 at $31 and $150 at $6.50, my typical bets. It was before MBL, you are entitled to knock it back completely, but, in what is becoming the norm, you adjusted the win to $30 and ditto the place as if it were a traditional each way bet - rather than a higher value, say at least MBL of $70. Standing to lose $165 the place befits PlayUp, not TopSport. ********** and the reply: If you bet win and place on a runner we always take the same win and place if above the limit. So if you would like higher the place before the Minimums kick in then I would suggest you bet to win $500 win and $500 place which should get accepted. *********** -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 20:18 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet Oh, to get a post like that! Disappointing from Rod. What about Topsport. They're meant to be serious bookmakers. On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 20:00, L.B.Loveday wrote: > > > > To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au > Subject: Vicbet.com MBL > > > > > > Len > > Looking at all the figures as I do regularly, particularly towards the end of the Fin Year and continually re-accessing everything I am sorry but the Pre-Post Post Fixed Odds, Overseas Betting, BOB, TF, H2H, and the BT, Fav v Field, Odds v Evens, Exotics are no longer available for you???..Your strike rate is incredibly good. I congratulate you on your ability on the Punt, one of the best. Unfortunately with the introduction of the ?Point of Consumption? (POC) Tax in all jurisdictions plus many other taxes I have had to implement this change?? > > You are welcome to take Fixed Odds to win the Minimum Bet Limit (MBL) as described here below: > > Etc. > > ********* > > 26 days, 163 bets at $150 the Place, 17 the Place for smaller amounts (top-up to $150 from other restricted bets - I am a moderate level staker where possible) and they spit the dummy. Then they got even weaker - I waited to test whether they were on the ball with zero allowed WA, tried $150 @ 3.9, rejected and they dropped the price. > > WARNING: if you do have an account and a winning bet, check deductions - once a figure that did not accord with their published table, once scratchings were out when I bet, later altered to 9:07, 90 minutes after they were scratched and they applied deductions, once deductions initially (and correctly) shown as 2/2, changed to 5/6 before paying. > > Cheers, > > LBL > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From andrew1richman at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 08:57:01 2020 From: andrew1richman at gmail.com (ANDREW RICHMAN) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 08:57:01 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet In-Reply-To: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Well being up front is better than 3 minutes of 'think music' and then after the race jumps cancelling bets 'price changed' like my experience at the end although he had asked me to close my account a few times before that started. At my peak in 2008 I had 87 bookmakers accounts (from Africa to The Carribean - the long way) for sport/horses that have dwindled to just Betfair and TopSport now. In 2017 after losing so many accounts and when supposed rails bookmakers were pulling dirty tricks we retired from betting and stick to the financial markets now where the playing field is much fairer. At 2% POT on sport at our peak most of the edge was getting good prices and with way less to choose from it became too risky that bad runs might not recover. My favourite letter (below) was from across the ditch from the NZ TAB. No deposit limits, bet limits etc. just cut off immediately. Cheers, Andrew Dear Andrew, *Closure of Your TAB Account* After recently reviewing your account a commercial decision has been made to close your account due to the unsustainable nature of your business. The closure of your account will take effect from 19 July 2013. From this date onwards you will no longer be able to use your account ****** to place bets through www.tab.co.nz, m.tab.co.nz , Touch Tone, Phonebet or in our retail stores. To claim the remaining balance in your account you can either: ? Request a cheque ? Receive a Direct Credit Please see the attached form that you can send back to us to claim your remaining balance. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your past custom and wish you the best of luck in the future. Yours sincerely, Martin Saunders General Manager TAB On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 20:00, L.B.Loveday wrote: > > > *To:* lloveday at ozemail.com.au > *Subject:* Vicbet.com MBL > > > > > > Len > > Looking at all the figures as I do regularly, particularly towards the end > of the Fin Year and continually re-accessing everything I am sorry but the > Pre-Post Post Fixed Odds, Overseas Betting, BOB, TF, H2H, and the BT, Fav v > Field, Odds v Evens, Exotics are *no* longer available for you???..Your > strike rate is *incredibly* good. I congratulate you on your ability on > the Punt, one of the best. Unfortunately with the introduction of the > ?Point of Consumption? (POC) Tax in all jurisdictions plus many other taxes > I have had to implement this change?? > > You are welcome to take Fixed Odds to win the *Minimum Bet Limit* (MBL) > as described here below: > > Etc. > > ********* > > 26 days, 163 bets at $150 the Place, 17 the Place for smaller amounts > (top-up to $150 from other restricted bets - I am a moderate level staker > where possible) and they spit the dummy. Then they got even weaker - I > waited to test whether they were on the ball with zero allowed WA, tried > $150 @ 3.9, rejected and they dropped the price. > > WARNING: if you do have an account and a winning bet, check deductions - > once a figure that did not accord with their published table, once > scratchings were out when I bet, later altered to 9:07, 90 minutes after > they were scratched and they applied deductions, once deductions initially > (and correctly) shown as 2/2, changed to 5/6 before paying. > > Cheers, > > LBL > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sat Jun 13 09:41:01 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 09:41:01 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet In-Reply-To: References: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <001901d64112$efd4b640$cf7e22c0$@ozemail.com.au> Don't you just love "sorry" and "unfortunately" in my case and "thank you" and " wish you the best " in your case? VicBet and Bet365 are the only two I have accounts with that stick rigidly with MBL, SportsBet stick rigidly to 1000/500 (2000/800 Metro) but 24/7, the others are all over the place, but PlayUp are the worst (as befits being a re-badged ClassicBet - withdrawals still come through " Direct Credit nnnnnnn ClassicBet". LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of ANDREW RICHMAN Sent: Saturday, 13 June 2020 8:57 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet Well being up front is better than 3 minutes of 'think music' and then after the race jumps cancelling bets 'price changed' like my experience at the end although he had asked me to close my account a few times before that started. At my peak in 2008 I had 87 bookmakers accounts (from Africa to The Carribean - the long way) for sport/horses that have dwindled to just Betfair and TopSport now. In 2017 after losing so many accounts and when supposed rails bookmakers were pulling dirty tricks we retired from betting and stick to the financial markets now where the playing field is much fairer. At 2% POT on sport at our peak most of the edge was getting good prices and with way less to choose from it became too risky that bad runs might not recover. My favourite letter (below) was from across the ditch from the NZ TAB. No deposit limits, bet limits etc. just cut off immediately. Cheers, Andrew Dear Andrew, Closure of Your TAB Account After recently reviewing your account a commercial decision has been made to close your account due to the unsustainable nature of your business. The closure of your account will take effect from 19 July 2013. From this date onwards you will no longer be able to use your account ****** to place bets through www.tab.co.nz , m.tab.co.nz , Touch Tone, Phonebet or in our retail stores. To claim the remaining balance in your account you can either: * Request a cheque * Receive a Direct Credit Please see the attached form that you can send back to us to claim your remaining balance. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your past custom and wish you the best of luck in the future. Yours sincerely, Martin Saunders General Manager TAB On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 20:00, L.B.Loveday > wrote: To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au Subject: Vicbet.com MBL Len Looking at all the figures as I do regularly, particularly towards the end of the Fin Year and continually re-accessing everything I am sorry but the Pre-Post Post Fixed Odds, Overseas Betting, BOB, TF, H2H, and the BT, Fav v Field, Odds v Evens, Exotics are no longer available for you???..Your strike rate is incredibly good. I congratulate you on your ability on the Punt, one of the best. Unfortunately with the introduction of the ?Point of Consumption? (POC) Tax in all jurisdictions plus many other taxes I have had to implement this change?? You are welcome to take Fixed Odds to win the Minimum Bet Limit (MBL) as described here below: Etc. ********* 26 days, 163 bets at $150 the Place, 17 the Place for smaller amounts (top-up to $150 from other restricted bets - I am a moderate level staker where possible) and they spit the dummy. Then they got even weaker - I waited to test whether they were on the ball with zero allowed WA, tried $150 @ 3.9, rejected and they dropped the price. WARNING: if you do have an account and a winning bet, check deductions - once a figure that did not accord with their published table, once scratchings were out when I bet, later altered to 9:07, 90 minutes after they were scratched and they applied deductions, once deductions initially (and correctly) shown as 2/2, changed to 5/6 before paying. Cheers, LBL _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sat Jun 13 09:51:08 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2020 09:51:08 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet In-Reply-To: References: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <002901d64114$59af4b60$0d0de220$@ozemail.com.au> Well being up front is better than 3 minutes of 'think music' Now there's an omen - I backed Think Music, Narrandera 2/8 at 3.80 place. From: Racing On Behalf Of ANDREW RICHMAN Sent: Saturday, 13 June 2020 8:57 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet Well being up front is better than 3 minutes of 'think music' and then after the race jumps cancelling bets 'price changed' like my experience at the end although he had asked me to close my account a few times before that started. At my peak in 2008 I had 87 bookmakers accounts (from Africa to The Carribean - the long way) for sport/horses that have dwindled to just Betfair and TopSport now. In 2017 after losing so many accounts and when supposed rails bookmakers were pulling dirty tricks we retired from betting and stick to the financial markets now where the playing field is much fairer. At 2% POT on sport at our peak most of the edge was getting good prices and with way less to choose from it became too risky that bad runs might not recover. My favourite letter (below) was from across the ditch from the NZ TAB. No deposit limits, bet limits etc. just cut off immediately. Cheers, Andrew Dear Andrew, Closure of Your TAB Account After recently reviewing your account a commercial decision has been made to close your account due to the unsustainable nature of your business. The closure of your account will take effect from 19 July 2013. From this date onwards you will no longer be able to use your account ****** to place bets through www.tab.co.nz , m.tab.co.nz , Touch Tone, Phonebet or in our retail stores. To claim the remaining balance in your account you can either: * Request a cheque * Receive a Direct Credit Please see the attached form that you can send back to us to claim your remaining balance. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your past custom and wish you the best of luck in the future. Yours sincerely, Martin Saunders General Manager TAB On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 20:00, L.B.Loveday > wrote: To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au Subject: Vicbet.com MBL Len Looking at all the figures as I do regularly, particularly towards the end of the Fin Year and continually re-accessing everything I am sorry but the Pre-Post Post Fixed Odds, Overseas Betting, BOB, TF, H2H, and the BT, Fav v Field, Odds v Evens, Exotics are no longer available for you???..Your strike rate is incredibly good. I congratulate you on your ability on the Punt, one of the best. Unfortunately with the introduction of the ?Point of Consumption? (POC) Tax in all jurisdictions plus many other taxes I have had to implement this change?? You are welcome to take Fixed Odds to win the Minimum Bet Limit (MBL) as described here below: Etc. ********* 26 days, 163 bets at $150 the Place, 17 the Place for smaller amounts (top-up to $150 from other restricted bets - I am a moderate level staker where possible) and they spit the dummy. Then they got even weaker - I waited to test whether they were on the ball with zero allowed WA, tried $150 @ 3.9, rejected and they dropped the price. WARNING: if you do have an account and a winning bet, check deductions - once a figure that did not accord with their published table, once scratchings were out when I bet, later altered to 9:07, 90 minutes after they were scratched and they applied deductions, once deductions initially (and correctly) shown as 2/2, changed to 5/6 before paying. Cheers, LBL _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Mon Jun 15 14:35:42 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:35:42 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet In-Reply-To: References: <000201d640a0$407f06e0$c17d14a0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <003f01d642ce$6ee02d90$4ca088b0$@ozemail.com.au> Yes, I'd thought more highly of Rod - I used to bet via phone and then on his original web-site TF way back. Maybe he's not pulling the strings on a hands-on basis, maybe he thinks that because I've started betting with him again, I'm collaborating (I've always had no boss, no subordinates, no partners, no customers.., one-out). If whoever is running things thinks I'm that good, he should accept my mid-sized bets and smash the horses elsewhere. -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Friday, 12 June 2020 20:18 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Another mob of wimps - Vicbet Oh, to get a post like that! Disappointing from Rod. What about Topsport. They're meant to be serious bookmakers. On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 at 20:00, L.B.Loveday wrote: > > > > To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au > Subject: Vicbet.com MBL > > > > > > Len > > Looking at all the figures as I do regularly, particularly towards the end of the Fin Year and continually re-accessing everything I am sorry but the Pre-Post Post Fixed Odds, Overseas Betting, BOB, TF, H2H, and the BT, Fav v Field, Odds v Evens, Exotics are no longer available for you???..Your strike rate is incredibly good. I congratulate you on your ability on the Punt, one of the best. Unfortunately with the introduction of the ?Point of Consumption? (POC) Tax in all jurisdictions plus many other taxes I have had to implement this change?? > > You are welcome to take Fixed Odds to win the Minimum Bet Limit (MBL) as described here below: > > Etc. > > ********* > > 26 days, 163 bets at $150 the Place, 17 the Place for smaller amounts (top-up to $150 from other restricted bets - I am a moderate level-staker where possible) and they spit the dummy. Then they got even weaker - I waited to test whether they were on the ball with zero allowed WA, tried $150 @ 3.9, rejected and they dropped the price. > > WARNING: if you do have an account and a winning bet, check deductions - once a figure that did not accord with their published table, once scratchings were out when I bet, later altered to 9:07, 90 minutes after they were scratched and they applied deductions, once deductions initially (and correctly) shown as 2/2, changed to 5/6 before paying. > > Cheers, > > LBL > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sat Jun 20 23:32:18 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2020 21:32:18 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system In-Reply-To: <008f01d62e9a$bfbfd5f0$3f3f81d0$@bigpond.com> References: <008f01d62e9a$bfbfd5f0$3f3f81d0$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <002801d64707$38abba90$aa032fb0$@bigpond.com> LBL did a big exam of these rules for the Editors Method SUMMARY: 100K races sorted out to 20 000 with criteria that matched (top rated only) resulted in 16% better strike rate, 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Thanks for your endeavours Len. Cannot get DynamicOdds today - pages won't load past 1100 hours? So cannot tease with todays results. Cheers Tony LBL wrote: It returned a slight loss at SP, but who takes SP? Average SP Market% is running at 120%, average Top Final Price market from the 9 bookmakers I monitor at 110% (117% and 108% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). Average Top Fluctuation % = 111% (109% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). No problem quoting. From: Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:15 PM To: 'L.B.Loveday' > Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Len - thanks (a) You didn't say, and I assume, the return was positive? (b) It may be hard, not impossible, to get a single pick into profit (Wizard maintain their top pick returns 11% - although this was calculated some years ago now. Malcolm Knowles makes a similar claim, again in the past.) That was a big examination, thanks again, and can I quote you? Cheers Tony From: L.B.Loveday [mailto:lloveday at ozemail.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 16 June 2020 10:59 AM To: 'Tony Moffat' > Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Tony, I looked at 100,000+ races and my top-rated (being the only ones I look at let alone record) and 20,000+ of my top rated fitted the criterion (I did not find any that went from Good to Heavy although my data does include Original Condition and Race Condition). The 20,000 had a 16% better strike rate and a 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Cheers, LBL From: Tony Moffat Sent: Friday, 22 May 2020 23:08 PM To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au Subject: The Editors Method - exact wording Len - thanks. I would be keen to see the result of your exam. Cheers Tony And still, golly! Aziz Jamil Coureur. How come there is never a Gay Whatever horse name now - prudes Re:- I make it 32 days! I intend to get around to a long-term analysis of results. -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of i8work at aussiebb.com.au Sent: Friday, 22 May 2020 16:42 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Aziz Jamil Coureur raced 17 days ago didn't it so ineligible Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 7:35 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: The Editors Method - a system This one, and two variations, have been around for many years. It seeks to improve the strike rate of a public selector - meaning a newspaper tipster The version 'Reckoner' sold in Melbourne claims that the elements under consideration are those present in the past form of 99% of winners . The Editor featured here is one discussed in Racing Review Issue 562 by Anthony Scott on November 9 1977 - his version is that of Edgar Horn (USA) circa 1930 (as they say) The runners to consider are those tipped by your choice of public selector. (a) The runner must have raced on the track (b) The runner must have raced within the last 15 days (c) The runner must have finished within 5 lengths of the winner last start (or won, of course) (d) The runner must have finished not further back than 4th last start (including 4th, of course) (e) No maiden races for 3yo or older are to be considered (f) There is directions (rules) regarding changing conditions on race day - the selections were made for a good track and the racing is now heavy - no bets (g) Mr Scott added a rule of his own - the runner must have form at the distance ( a start, a place, a win - in ascending power) Some results from today Pinjarra R5 Fingermark 1st 11.30/2.90 Sunny Coast R8 Aziz Jamil Coureur (golly!) 1st 8.90/3.40 Pinjarra R6 Fire Sale 1st 3.30/1.3 - equal Bombardment unplaced Sunny Coast R9 Je Suis Belle 1st, 2nd, 3rd had identical scores Pinjarra R7 Trutiara 1st 4.10/1.40 Sunny Coast R10 Redstone 1st 3.20/1.40 - Dam Lovable had identical scores 3rd 23.10/6.20 Pinjarra R8 Wild Front 2nd 8.30/2.00 - that's the quaddie as well Cheers Tony -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 14038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Jun 21 05:37:21 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 05:37:21 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Message-ID: <000c01d6473a$38e3d960$aaab8c20$@ozemail.com.au> My last hourly auto-download of Saturday's details was at 23:23, my last manually instigated download of Sunday's was at 20:47, with all 8 races there, then at 00:20 my hourly auto-download switched to Sunday, with Carnavron missing and it's still missing now I'm back on the job at 5:30. Here's a previous DO explanation for this recurring issue: *********** Hi Len, This occurs when TAB reload their upcoming day's racing schedule. They do it, for reasons only known to them, occasionally which always causes us a few headaches. Cheers, ********** They know the problem, they should fix it. From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2020 23:32 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system LBL did a big exam of these rules for the Editors Method SUMMARY: 100K races sorted out to 20 000 with criteria that matched (top rated only) resulted in 16% better strike rate, 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Thanks for your endeavours Len. Cannot get DynamicOdds today - pages won't load past 1100 hours? So cannot tease with todays results. Cheers Tony LBL wrote: It returned a slight loss at SP, but who takes SP? Average SP Market% is running at 120%, average Top Final Price market from the 9 bookmakers I monitor at 110% (117% and 108% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). Average Top Fluctuation % = 111% (109% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). No problem quoting. From: Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:15 PM To: 'L.B.Loveday' < lloveday at ozemail.com.au> Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Len - thanks a. You didn't say, and I assume, the return was positive? b. It may be hard, not impossible, to get a single pick into profit (Wizard maintain their top pick returns 11% - although this was calculated some years ago now. Malcolm Knowles makes a similar claim, again in the past.) That was a big examination, thanks again, and can I quote you? Cheers Tony From: L.B.Loveday [ mailto:lloveday at ozemail.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 16 June 2020 10:59 AM To: 'Tony Moffat' < tonymoffat at bigpond.com> Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Tony, I looked at 100,000+ races and my top-rated (being the only ones I look at let alone record) and 20,000+ of my top rated fitted the criterion (I did not find any that went from Good to Heavy although my data does include Original Condition and Race Condition). The 20,000 had a 16% better strike rate and a 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Cheers, LBL From: Tony Moffat Sent: Friday, 22 May 2020 23:08 PM To: lloveday at ozemail.com.au Subject: The Editors Method - exact wording Len - thanks. I would be keen to see the result of your exam. Cheers Tony And still, golly! Aziz Jamil Coureur. How come there is never a Gay Whatever horse name now - prudes Re:- I make it 32 days! I intend to get around to a long-term analysis of results. -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of i8work at aussiebb.com.au Sent: Friday, 22 May 2020 16:42 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Aziz Jamil Coureur raced 17 days ago didn't it so ineligible Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 7:35 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: The Editors Method - a system This one, and two variations, have been around for many years. It seeks to improve the strike rate of a public selector - meaning a newspaper tipster The version 'Reckoner' sold in Melbourne claims that the elements under consideration are those present in the past form of 99% of winners . The Editor featured here is one discussed in Racing Review Issue 562 by Anthony Scott on November 9 1977 - his version is that of Edgar Horn (USA) circa 1930 (as they say) The runners to consider are those tipped by your choice of public selector. a. The runner must have raced on the track b. The runner must have raced within the last 15 days c. The runner must have finished within 5 lengths of the winner last start (or won, of course) d. The runner must have finished not further back than 4th last start (including 4th, of course) e. No maiden races for 3yo or older are to be considered f. There is directions (rules) regarding changing conditions on race day - the selections were made for a good track and the racing is now heavy - no bets g. Mr Scott added a rule of his own - the runner must have form at the distance ( a start, a place, a win - in ascending power) Some results from today Pinjarra R5 Fingermark 1st 11.30/2.90 Sunny Coast R8 Aziz Jamil Coureur (golly!) 1st 8.90/3.40 Pinjarra R6 Fire Sale 1st 3.30/1.3 - equal Bombardment unplaced Sunny Coast R9 Je Suis Belle 1st, 2nd, 3rd had identical scores Pinjarra R7 Trutiara 1st 4.10/1.40 Sunny Coast R10 Redstone 1st 3.20/1.40 - Dam Lovable had identical scores 3rd 23.10/6.20 Pinjarra R8 Wild Front 2nd 8.30/2.00 - that's the quaddie as well Cheers Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 15574 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sun Jun 21 11:05:52 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 09:05:52 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system In-Reply-To: <000c01d6473a$38e3d960$aaab8c20$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000c01d6473a$38e3d960$aaab8c20$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <003001d64768$1cc5bc20$56513460$@bigpond.com> Len - Saturday the download permissions improved until Belmont race 4 - this was data sheet line 200 (1328784_04) then it jagged on that line for the remainder of the day. This meant no data for MR8,MR9,SR9,BR9 etc. It is not a regular thing There seems to be a clutter of international races (Busan Korea eg), and sure I acknowledge they have international readers/clients but perhaps they could compartmentalise each country racing (or something) - I'm unlikely to bet into Chile for instance, or Korea. I have emailed them Cheers Tony From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 3:37 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system My last hourly auto-download of Saturday's details was at 23:23, my last manually instigated download of Sunday's was at 20:47, with all 8 races there, then at 00:20 my hourly auto-download switched to Sunday, with Carnavron missing and it's still missing now I'm back on the job at 5:30. Here's a previous DO explanation for this recurring issue: *********** Hi Len, This occurs when TAB reload their upcoming day's racing schedule. They do it, for reasons only known to them, occasionally which always causes us a few headaches. Cheers, ********** They know the problem, they should fix it. From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2020 23:32 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system LBL did a big exam of these rules for the Editors Method SUMMARY: 100K races sorted out to 20 000 with criteria that matched (top rated only) resulted in 16% better strike rate, 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Thanks for your endeavours Len. Cannot get DynamicOdds today - pages won't load past 1100 hours? So cannot tease with todays results. Cheers Tony LBL wrote: It returned a slight loss at SP, but who takes SP? Average SP Market% is running at 120%, average Top Final Price market from the 9 bookmakers I monitor at 110% (117% and 108% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). Average Top Fluctuation % = 111% (109% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). No problem quoting. From: Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:15 PM To: 'L.B.Loveday' < lloveday at ozemail.com.au> Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Len - thanks (a) You didn't say, and I assume, the return was positive? (b) It may be hard, not impossible, to get a single pick into profit (Wizard maintain their top pick returns 11% - although this was calculated some years ago now. Malcolm Knowles makes a similar claim, again in the past.) That was a big examination, thanks again, and can I quote you? Cheers Tony From: L.B.Loveday [ mailto:lloveday at ozemail.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 16 June 2020 10:59 AM To: 'Tony Moffat' < tonymoffat at bigpond.com> Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Tony, I looked at 100,000+ races and my top-rated (being the only ones I look at let alone record) and 20,000+ of my top rated fitted the criterion (I did not find any that went from Good to Heavy although my data does include Original Condition and Race Condition). The 20,000 had a 16% better strike rate and a 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Cheers, LBL From: Tony Moffat Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 7:35 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: The Editors Method - a system This one, and two variations, have been around for many years. It seeks to improve the strike rate of a public selector - meaning a newspaper tipster The version 'Reckoner' sold in Melbourne claims that the elements under consideration are those present in the past form of 99% of winners . The Editor featured here is one discussed in Racing Review Issue 562 by Anthony Scott on November 9 1977 - his version is that of Edgar Horn (USA) circa 1930 (as they say) The runners to consider are those tipped by your choice of public selector. (a) The runner must have raced on the track (b) The runner must have raced within the last 15 days (c) The runner must have finished within 5 lengths of the winner last start (or won, of course) (d) The runner must have finished not further back than 4th last start (including 4th, of course) (e) No maiden races for 3yo or older are to be considered (f) There is directions (rules) regarding changing conditions on race day - the selections were made for a good track and the racing is now heavy - no bets (g) Mr Scott added a rule of his own - the runner must have form at the distance ( a start, a place, a win - in ascending power) Cheers Tony -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 15430 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Jun 21 12:37:07 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2020 12:37:07 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system In-Reply-To: <003001d64768$1cc5bc20$56513460$@bigpond.com> References: <000c01d6473a$38e3d960$aaab8c20$@ozemail.com.au> <003001d64768$1cc5bc20$56513460$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <003e01d64774$dce56d50$96b047f0$@ozemail.com.au> Tony, I have a bespoke download program that lets me select what races and fields to download and an error trap that retries after a 30 second delay. On Saturday my hourly down-loads ran without a hitch during beer-time and my manually-instigated downloads of Sunday's races from 5pm on were fine during betting-time. LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 11:06 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Len - Saturday the download permissions improved until Belmont race 4 - this was data sheet line 200 (1328784_04) then it jagged on that line for the remainder of the day. This meant no data for MR8,MR9,SR9,BR9 etc. It is not a regular thing There seems to be a clutter of international races (Busan Korea eg), and sure I acknowledge they have international readers/clients but perhaps they could compartmentalise each country racing (or something) - I'm unlikely to bet into Chile for instance, or Korea. I have emailed them Cheers Tony From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 3:37 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system My last hourly auto-download of Saturday's details was at 23:23, my last manually instigated download of Sunday's was at 20:47, with all 8 races there, then at 00:20 my hourly auto-download switched to Sunday, with Carnavron missing and it's still missing now I'm back on the job at 5:30. Here's a previous DO explanation for this recurring issue: *********** Hi Len, This occurs when TAB reload their upcoming day's racing schedule. They do it, for reasons only known to them, occasionally which always causes us a few headaches. Cheers, ********** They know the problem, they should fix it. From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2020 23:32 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system LBL did a big exam of these rules for the Editors Method SUMMARY: 100K races sorted out to 20 000 with criteria that matched (top rated only) resulted in 16% better strike rate, 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Thanks for your endeavours Len. Cannot get DynamicOdds today - pages won't load past 1100 hours? So cannot tease with todays results. Cheers Tony LBL wrote: It returned a slight loss at SP, but who takes SP? Average SP Market% is running at 120%, average Top Final Price market from the 9 bookmakers I monitor at 110% (117% and 108% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). Average Top Fluctuation % = 111% (109% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). No problem quoting. From: Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2020 12:15 PM To: 'L.B.Loveday' < lloveday at ozemail.com.au> Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Len - thanks a. You didn't say, and I assume, the return was positive? b. It may be hard, not impossible, to get a single pick into profit (Wizard maintain their top pick returns 11% - although this was calculated some years ago now. Malcolm Knowles makes a similar claim, again in the past.) That was a big examination, thanks again, and can I quote you? Cheers Tony From: L.B.Loveday [ mailto:lloveday at ozemail.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 16 June 2020 10:59 AM To: 'Tony Moffat' < tonymoffat at bigpond.com> Subject: RE: The Editors Method - exact wording Tony, I looked at 100,000+ races and my top-rated (being the only ones I look at let alone record) and 20,000+ of my top rated fitted the criterion (I did not find any that went from Good to Heavy although my data does include Original Condition and Race Condition). The 20,000 had a 16% better strike rate and a 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Cheers, LBL From: Tony Moffat Sent: Wednesday, 20 May 2020 7:35 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: The Editors Method - a system This one, and two variations, have been around for many years. It seeks to improve the strike rate of a public selector - meaning a newspaper tipster The version 'Reckoner' sold in Melbourne claims that the elements under consideration are those present in the past form of 99% of winners . The Editor featured here is one discussed in Racing Review Issue 562 by Anthony Scott on November 9 1977 - his version is that of Edgar Horn (USA) circa 1930 (as they say) The runners to consider are those tipped by your choice of public selector. a. The runner must have raced on the track b. The runner must have raced within the last 15 days c. The runner must have finished within 5 lengths of the winner last start (or won, of course) d. The runner must have finished not further back than 4th last start (including 4th, of course) e. No maiden races for 3yo or older are to be considered f. There is directions (rules) regarding changing conditions on race day - the selections were made for a good track and the racing is now heavy - no bets g. Mr Scott added a rule of his own - the runner must have form at the distance ( a start, a place, a win - in ascending power) Cheers Tony -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 15162 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Mon Jun 22 02:22:57 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 00:22:57 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Ace's Method Message-ID: <000001d647e8$3a7cf1e0$af76d5a0$@bigpond.com> Ace's Method Ace was a tipster for a brief time in Melbourne in the early 70's. This system is on two typewritten pages, it is perhaps the only copy. Ace makes the observation that the tipsters poll is a good indicator of the capability of a horse to win a race. The author does not discuss how they pick horses to include in a tipster poll only that the tips, and those others of that ilk combined, will generally find the winner. Further, Ace concludes that after all the tips are collated and displayed then a scratching occurs this somehow enables the remaining horses in the poll. Those remaining strengthen their hold on the race outcome. The increase in SP of a remaining horse can be used to advantage in making a profit. Often, Ace says more often, long priced winners arrive in a race where (poll) horses have been scratched and it is these contests that the shrewd punter should bet on. There are no tables, charts, statistics from which a conclusion can be drawn. Ace said it, it must be so. This is how system authors are. There are no rules, only conclusions per se (a) Consider all horses in the tipsters poll - The Age poll of 16 tipsters are used here. (b) Record the pre race price of all runners in the poll (c) On race day if there is a scratching the race can be checked for suitability only if the scratched horse had a pre-race price. (d) Compare the pre-race price (from the newspaper) with the displayed price in the ring on race day and record those horses whose price has increased. (e) A horse whose price has increased becomes a system horse. There may be two or more. Back them to ensure a profit, win or place or each way. There are two paragraphs on why the chosen horse becomes a viable bet. If a poll horse is scratched it is natural that the remaining horses will shorten in price to counteract that scratching. A horse outside the poll, if scratched, may not affect the market to any extent, its removal may result in all prices being shortened across the board. A horse, in the poll, that lengthens in price becomes good value because it was good enough to be chosen initially and now one of its rivals has been removed (the scratching), nothing else otherwise has changed. Ace reports that during the 1972-73 racing season there were 61 races bet on and there were 15 winners, 13 seconds and thirds and 28 total places but no other data (average price would help) This another way to qualify the runners in the tipsters poll (a follow on from The Editors Method) Results are from the following season (a) There has to be a scratching (b) The tipsters poll horse price has to lengthen 11/8 MR8 SCR Split Up - Ballarat (6/4-13/4-3/1) 1st 25/8 MR6 SCR PORTICO - Gay Icarus (7/1-8/1-12/1) 2nd 01/09 MR9 SCR Trifling +1 - Dorica Lass (6/1- 6/1-12/1) 1st 8/9 MR5 -SCR Felipa - Taj Rossi (8/1-12/1-10/1) 1st 8/9 MR6 - SCR LEGOGLIO- Rickshaws Luck (7/1-10/1-9/1) 1st 27/9 MR2- SCR Showhonour - Gala Comet (12/1-20/1-16/1-33/1) 1st 29/9 MR2 SCR Replied - Mellition (8/1-11/1 tote) 1st 27/10 Cox Plate SCR SOBAR, GRAND CIDIUM - Swell Time (15/1-10/1-20/1-10/1) 2nd..Magnifique (7/1 -12/1) Unp) Cheers Tony -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 6518 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Mon Jun 22 19:18:09 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 19:18:09 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Morgan Butler Message-ID: <000001d64876$0db47780$291d6680$@ozemail.com.au> It's over 10 years since Morgan Butler was badly injured in a Tamworth fall. Someone by that name, I presume the same man, rode at Sunshine Coast yesterday. A comeback after 11 years or another Morgan Butler? LBL -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2682 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Mon Jun 22 21:14:33 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2020 19:14:33 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Trouble with DynamicOdds exxcel sheet SmartData v2.05 -SORTED Message-ID: <001001d64886$4f0f2b20$ed2d8160$@bigpond.com> This program had been stalling at data line 200 (in effect the first 200 races of the day) Their support staff sorted this for me today - quick as too and thanks to them. 200 races! -actually if you filter out everything beginning after mid night (USA say) then down into NZ the races number compounds pretty quickly. By the time 200 rolls up it can be early afternoon WA time which is what had been happening to me. After 200 lines/races the program refused to load further data (96 columns permitted) and that was annoying. As stated Scott Gooley and staff at DO sorted it for me today - an advance fix but it seems to be working a treat again now Thanks Tony From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 10:37 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Tony, I have a bespoke download program that lets me select what races and fields to download and an error trap that retries after a 30 second delay. On Saturday my hourly down-loads ran without a hitch during beer-time and my manually-instigated downloads of Sunday's races from 5pm on were fine during betting-time. LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 11:06 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Len - Saturday the download permissions improved until Belmont race 4 - this was data sheet line 200 (1328784_04) then it jagged on that line for the remainder of the day. This meant no data for MR8,MR9,SR9,BR9 etc. It is not a regular thing There seems to be a clutter of international races (Busan Korea eg), and sure I acknowledge they have international readers/clients but perhaps they could compartmentalise each country racing (or something) - I'm unlikely to bet into Chile for instance, or Korea. I have emailed them Cheers Tony From: Racing [ mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 3:37 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system My last hourly auto-download of Saturday's details was at 23:23, my last manually instigated download of Sunday's was at 20:47, with all 8 races there, then at 00:20 my hourly auto-download switched to Sunday, with Carnavron missing and it's still missing now I'm back on the job at 5:30. Here's a previous DO explanation for this recurring issue: *********** Hi Len, This occurs when TAB reload their upcoming day's racing schedule. They do it, for reasons only known to them, occasionally which always causes us a few headaches. Cheers, ********** They know the problem, they should fix it. From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2020 23:32 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system LBL did a big exam of these rules for the Editors Method SUMMARY: 100K races sorted out to 20 000 with criteria that matched (top rated only) resulted in 16% better strike rate, 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Thanks for your endeavours Len. Cannot get DynamicOdds today - pages won't load past 1100 hours? So cannot tease with todays results. Cheers Tony LBL wrote: It returned a slight loss at SP, but who takes SP? Average SP Market% is running at 120%, average Top Final Price market from the 9 bookmakers I monitor at 110% (117% and 108% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). Average Top Fluctuation % = 111% (109% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). No problem quoting. snipped -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 16099 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Jun 23 08:32:21 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 08:32:21 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Trouble with DynamicOdds exxcel sheet SmartData v2.05 -SORTED Message-ID: <002101d648e5$0006bac0$00143040$@ozemail.com.au> Scott is very good at his job. From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Monday, 22 June 2020 21:15 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] Trouble with DynamicOdds exxcel sheet SmartData v2.05 -SORTED This program had been stalling at data line 200 (in effect the first 200 races of the day) Their support staff sorted this for me today - quick as too and thanks to them. 200 races! -actually if you filter out everything beginning after mid night (USA say) then down into NZ the races number compounds pretty quickly. By the time 200 rolls up it can be early afternoon WA time which is what had been happening to me. After 200 lines/races the program refused to load further data (96 columns permitted) and that was annoying. As stated Scott Gooley and staff at DO sorted it for me today - an advance fix but it seems to be working a treat again now Thanks Tony From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 10:37 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Tony, I have a bespoke download program that lets me select what races and fields to download and an error trap that retries after a 30 second delay. On Saturday my hourly down-loads ran without a hitch during beer-time and my manually-instigated downloads of Sunday's races from 5pm on were fine during betting-time. LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 11:06 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system Len - Saturday the download permissions improved until Belmont race 4 - this was data sheet line 200 (1328784_04) then it jagged on that line for the remainder of the day. This meant no data for MR8,MR9,SR9,BR9 etc. It is not a regular thing There seems to be a clutter of international races (Busan Korea eg), and sure I acknowledge they have international readers/clients but perhaps they could compartmentalise each country racing (or something) - I'm unlikely to bet into Chile for instance, or Korea. I have emailed them Cheers Tony From: Racing [ mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2020 3:37 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system My last hourly auto-download of Saturday's details was at 23:23, my last manually instigated download of Sunday's was at 20:47, with all 8 races there, then at 00:20 my hourly auto-download switched to Sunday, with Carnavron missing and it's still missing now I'm back on the job at 5:30. Here's a previous DO explanation for this recurring issue: *********** Hi Len, This occurs when TAB reload their upcoming day's racing schedule. They do it, for reasons only known to them, occasionally which always causes us a few headaches. Cheers, ********** They know the problem, they should fix it. From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2020 23:32 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < racing at ausrace.com> Subject: Re: [AusRace] The Editors Method - a system LBL did a big exam of these rules for the Editors Method SUMMARY: 100K races sorted out to 20 000 with criteria that matched (top rated only) resulted in 16% better strike rate, 7.5% better return at level stake SP. Thanks for your endeavours Len. Cannot get DynamicOdds today - pages won't load past 1100 hours? So cannot tease with todays results. Cheers Tony LBL wrote: It returned a slight loss at SP, but who takes SP? Average SP Market% is running at 120%, average Top Final Price market from the 9 bookmakers I monitor at 110% (117% and 108% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). Average Top Fluctuation % = 111% (109% for Syd, Mel, Bri metro). No problem quoting. snipped -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 10410 bytes Desc: not available URL: From creel1958 at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 08:41:11 2020 From: creel1958 at gmail.com (Ashley Latham) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 08:41:11 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Morgan Butler In-Reply-To: <000001d64876$0db47780$291d6680$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000001d64876$0db47780$291d6680$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Good morning Len, RISA displays LR Tam 26/04/09 as you say and Sun Coast 21/06/20 as comeback ride. He also rode a trial winner at his 2nd official trial ride on 2/6/20 at Sun Coast. Kind regards, Ashley Latham On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:18 PM L.B.Loveday wrote: > It's over 10 years since Morgan Butler was badly injured in a Tamworth > fall. > > > > > Someone by that name, I presume the same man, rode at Sunshine Coast > yesterday. A comeback after 11 years or another Morgan Butler? > > > > LBL > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Tue Jun 23 09:26:26 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 07:26:26 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] (Mxoxrxgan Bxuxtxler) Keagan Latham Message-ID: <001601d648ec$8d808460$a8818d20$@bigpond.com> Ashley ? are you related to jockey Keagan Latham? ? he has been riding well for a while now and disproves the adage of betting on apprentices (as did Winona Costin, Campbell Rawiller ertc) https://www.tabtouch.com.au/search/keyword/Search?jockeyDriverTrainer=keagan%20latham &period=All cheers Tony From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Ashley Latham Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2020 6:41 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Morgan Butler Good morning Len, RISA displays LR Tam 26/04/09 as you say and Sun Coast 21/06/20 as comeback ride. He also rode a trial winner at his 2nd official trial ride on 2/6/20 at Sun Coast. Kind regards, Ashley Latham On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:18 PM L.B.Loveday > wrote: It's over 10 years since Morgan Butler was badly injured in a Tamworth fall. Someone by that name, I presume the same man, rode at Sunshine Coast yesterday. A comeback after 11 years or another Morgan Butler? LBL _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From creel1958 at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 09:34:32 2020 From: creel1958 at gmail.com (Ashley Latham) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 09:34:32 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] (Mxoxrxgan Bxuxtxler) Keagan Latham In-Reply-To: <001601d648ec$8d808460$a8818d20$@bigpond.com> References: <001601d648ec$8d808460$a8818d20$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: Hi Tony, No relation, but more than happy to follow this rider. He displays strength and a willingness to continue to ride up to the Winning Post. A very profitable attribute. I do have a brother Mark, but again no relation. Kind regards, Ashley Latham On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:27 AM Tony Moffat wrote: > > > Ashley ? are you related to jockey Keagan Latham? ? he has been riding > well for a while now and disproves the adage of betting on apprentices (as > did Winona Costin, Campbell Rawiller ertc) > > > > > https://www.tabtouch.com.au/search/keyword/Search?jockeyDriverTrainer=keagan%20latham&period=All > > > > cheers > > > > Tony > > *From:* Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] *On Behalf Of *Ashley > Latham > *Sent:* Tuesday, 23 June 2020 6:41 AM > *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Morgan Butler > > > > Good morning Len, > > > > RISA displays LR Tam 26/04/09 as you say and Sun Coast 21/06/20 as > comeback ride. > > > > He also rode a trial winner at his 2nd official trial ride on 2/6/20 at > Sun Coast. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Ashley Latham > > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:18 PM L.B.Loveday > wrote: > > It's over 10 years since Morgan Butler was badly injured in a Tamworth > fall. > > > > > Someone by that name, I presume the same man, rode at Sunshine Coast > yesterday. A comeback after 11 years or another Morgan Butler? > > > > LBL > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > Virus-free. > www.avg.com > > <#m_7104832218581662651_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Jun 23 09:42:35 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 09:42:35 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Morgan Butler In-Reply-To: References: <000001d64876$0db47780$291d6680$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <003b01d648ee$cfa37260$6eea5720$@ozemail.com.au> Thanks. From: Racing On Behalf Of Ashley Latham Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2020 8:41 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Morgan Butler Good morning Len, RISA displays LR Tam 26/04/09 as you say and Sun Coast 21/06/20 as comeback ride. He also rode a trial winner at his 2nd official trial ride on 2/6/20 at Sun Coast. Kind regards, Ashley Latham On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:18 PM L.B.Loveday wrote: It's over 10 years since Morgan Butler was badly injured in a Tamworth fall. Someone by that name, I presume the same man, rode at Sunshine Coast yesterday. A comeback after 11 years or another Morgan Butler? LBL _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Jun 23 09:50:07 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2020 09:50:07 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] (Mxoxrxgan Bxuxtxler) Keagan Latham In-Reply-To: <001601d648ec$8d808460$a8818d20$@bigpond.com> References: <001601d648ec$8d808460$a8818d20$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <004501d648ef$dd3a08c0$97ae1a40$@ozemail.com.au> Yes he has been riding very well - one of the handful who return >=100% at SP, both when including and excluding long-shots. From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2020 9:26 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] (Mxoxrxgan Bxuxtxler) Keagan Latham Ashley ? are you related to jockey Keagan Latham? ? he has been riding well for a while now and disproves the adage of betting on apprentices (as did Winona Costin, Campbell Rawiller ertc) https://www.tabtouch.com.au/search/keyword/Search?jockeyDriverTrainer=keagan%20latham &period=All cheers Tony From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Ashley Latham Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2020 6:41 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Morgan Butler Good morning Len, RISA displays LR Tam 26/04/09 as you say and Sun Coast 21/06/20 as comeback ride. He also rode a trial winner at his 2nd official trial ride on 2/6/20 at Sun Coast. Kind regards, Ashley Latham On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:18 PM L.B.Loveday > wrote: It's over 10 years since Morgan Butler was badly injured in a Tamworth fall. Someone by that name, I presume the same man, rode at Sunshine Coast yesterday. A comeback after 11 years or another Morgan Butler? LBL _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com Virus-free. www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Fri Jun 26 21:20:55 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2020 21:20:55 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] (no subject) Message-ID: <000601d64bab$dddc6e30$99954a90$@ozemail.com.au> Sports betting agencies fight for naming rights Sportsbetting also questioned why Sportsbet had launched legal action against it now after two decades. Pat Scala/Racing Photos via Getty Images * EXCLUSIVE Jared Lynch Reporter @jaredm_lynch * 4:54PM June 26, 2020 * No Comments Wagering minnow Sportsbetting.com.au has countered betting giant Sportsbet's claim it had infringed its trademark, saying it had registered its domain six years earlier. In documents filed with the Federal Court on Thursday, Sportsbetting argued that if its brand has been impinged, Sportsbet's trademark should be struck out in Australia. The counter claim comes after Sportsbet, owned by Irish group Flutter Entertainment, sued Melbourne-based Sportsbetting for trademark infringement - despite the two outfits operating alongside one another for almost two decades. Sportsbet is the market leader in the $4bn Australian online betting industry with a share of about 25 per cent, which is set to grow to almost 40 per cent as it subsumes rival BetEasy in a $US12bn merger between Flutter Entertainment and BetEasy's owner The Stars Group. Sportsbetting says it has been operating a sports-betting business under the Sportsbetting.com.au and the Sportsbetting.aust.com trademarks continuously since 1998 - long before Sportsbet filed an application for its trademark in August 2004. "In 1998, Sportsbetting's predecessor, Hamish Davidson, founded a sports-betting business named Davidson Sports Betting and immediately started using the domain name www.ozemail.com.au/-sportbet and the email address sportbet at ozemail.com.au to promote his sports-betting services," Sportsbetting says in court documents. "On 29 September 1998, Mr Davidson registered the domain name www.sportsbetting.aust.com and commenced using that domain name to promote his sports-betting services. "If the court has found that the Sportsbetting.com.au mark is substantially identical to the Sportsbet trademarks, then the court should also find that the Sportsbet trademarks are substantially identical to the Sportsbetting trademarks such that Sportsbet is not the owner of the Sportsbet trademarks." Tabcorp watching from the sideline Watching on the sidelines will be Australian-listed betting giant Tabcorp, which itself owns a range of domains that contain the words sports and betting, which Sportsbet claims it has a trademark to in Australia. Sportsbetting highlighted the use of Tabcorp's use of the TAB Sportsbet mark until at least 2014, as well as the use of the Sportingbet trademark by Sportingbet Australia up until at least 2016 and the continued use of the Sportsbetting.com.au mark by Sportsbetting. Sportsbetting also questioned why Sportsbet had launched legal action against it now after two decades. "Throughout the approximately 20 years that (Sportsbetting) and its predecessors have been using the Sportsbetting.com.au mark in Australia, Sportsbet and its predecessors did not at any time raise with it any objection to such use or suggest to it that such use constituted an infringement of any trade mark or other rights of Sportsbet until the letter from Sportsbet's lawyers to it dated 24 April 2020." Jared Lynch Reporter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 95 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sun Jun 28 21:28:05 2020 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2020 19:28:05 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Bill - a system Message-ID: <000901d64d3f$3183d4d0$948b7e70$@bigpond.com> Bill - a system 50 years ago 27/06/1970 racing was held at Moonee Valley - it was sunny but slow, 8 races. Bill had a way, he said, of getting onto a good one but 'I'm stuffed if I know' how to back them. Presently he was going about it each way, $10 a race - essentially 5 runners a dollar each way. Bill did the opposite of most, he looked at what the tipsters chose, put a line through them, actually it was a blue pencil, then backed the remainder, a dollar each way. It wasn't a system, no way, uh uh this is my doing, I worked this. Those new tote tickets helped too, just mark down the five horses, write 1 and one, and slide it on through, he said. That was his, his non-system way of betting, systematically. It's a good one though. On this day Saturday 27/06/1970 he missed on the first with his two bets, a hurdle, 8 runners - out $4 Race 2, he got Fair Future into third 50/1 -$19 back. There were 13 runners, 8 in the poll and he backed the outside 5. Out $10, back $19. Those are his words. Race 3, he got Zorbette 2nd 25/1 - about $6. Out $10 back $6. Race 4 was a loss $10 - there were 16 runners and he backed the last 5, like always but none saluted. Race 5 he got 2nd and 3rd 20/1 and 10/1 and only backed three of them anyrate. Out $6 back $6 and $3.50 Race 6 was a loss -13 starters, 9 in the poll, left him with 4 to back - nil Out $8 Race 7 Piccanniny Hcp 2nd division 13 starters - 8 in the poll, disregard those. The winner is Bills selection, Top Subject, ridden by Jan Wakker, and he gets third place in as well - Dual Cadet. This happens occasionally, he says nonchalantly, but at 100/1 for the winner, and 66/1 for the 3rd, whats common place about that? $10 out. In $127 at least and $17.50. Bill is way ahead on the day. Race 8, after a cup of tea and some stewed apples and ice cream, our Bill fronts up for the last, 10 starters, 7 in the poll, 3 to back and two of those win and come second. Sir Ted 5/1 and Sanwah 10/1. $6 out - $8.25 and $3.50 Through it all his demeanour never changed, ok he didn't always have ice cream he said and he was still undecided about coming back next week. He was helping a mate in Tatura with his apples, tree training whatever that was. He did that because he was away a few weeks. Race 1 - out $4 Race 2 - out $10 - in $19 Race 3 - out $6 - in $6 Race 4 - out $10 Race 5 - out $6 in $9.50 Race 6 - out $8 Race 7 out $10 in $144.50 Race 8 $6 out in $11.75. Total out $60 - in $190+ The payouts are my calculations from the sp. The tote is more often longer in price. Ok, he backed a 100/1 in there, conceded. Unlike, me, and you, Bill is probably going to get every long priced winner/place. Eg 16/8 -race 4 Signal winner at 250/1 The race date before this one he scored with a winner at 7/1 and place getters at 50/1,20/1,16/1,20/1. In the following weeks he got winners at 14/1,10/1,12/1,100/1 which helped and places 50/1,20/1,100/1,100/1,12/1,14/1,12/1,100/1,8/1,100/1,66/1,10/1,15/1,66/1. Yes, there are 4 at 100/1 in that run - would you ever go to Tatura again. Schematic from 20/9 LLLLL,LLLLL,WON20/1LLLL,PLACE25/1LLLL,LLLLL,PLACE 12/1LLLL,LLLLL,PLACE13/2LLLL, LLLLL,PLACE40/1LLLL,PLACE66/1LLLL,WON40/1LLLL,PLACE50/1LLLL,WON25/1LLLL,PLAC E25/1LLLL,WON16/1LLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,WON33/1LLLL,PLACE12/1LLL L,LLLLL,LLLLL,PLACE20LLLL,WON16/1LLLL,LLLLL,WON40/1LLLL,PLACE8/1LLLL,WON25/1 LLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,WON33/1LLLL,PLACE12/1LLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,PLACE15/1LLLL,PLACE25 /1LLLL On 01/10 it went PLACE33/1LLLL,WON9/2LLLL,PLACE50/1LLLL,WON7/4LLLL,PLACE20/1LLLL,PLACE50/1LLL L,WON25/1LLLL On 6/9 in race 7 WON 150/1. The selections are from the Sun-Herald selection poll of 16 tipsters (as it was back then) - they are deleted and the remainders become the selections, up to 5 in total. How would you back them? Cheers Tony -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sun Jun 28 21:56:56 2020 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2020 21:56:56 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Bill - a system In-Reply-To: <000901d64d3f$3183d4d0$948b7e70$@bigpond.com> References: <000901d64d3f$3183d4d0$948b7e70$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: Just take close to the SP and back them proportionally? On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 21:28, Tony Moffat wrote: > Bill ? a system > > 50 years ago 27/06/1970 racing was held at Moonee Valley ? it was sunny > but slow, 8 races. > > Bill had a way, he said, of getting onto a good one but ?I?m stuffed if I > know? how to back them. Presently he was going about it each way, $10 a > race ? essentially 5 runners a dollar each way. > > Bill did the opposite of most, he looked at what the tipsters chose, put a > line through them, actually it was a blue pencil, then backed the > remainder, a dollar each way. > > It wasn?t a system, no way, uh uh this is my doing, I worked this. Those > new tote tickets helped too, just mark down the five horses, write 1 and > one, and slide it on through, he said. > > That was his, his non-system way of betting, systematically. It?s a good > one though. > > On this day Saturday 27/06/1970 he missed on the first with his two bets, > a hurdle, 8 runners ? out $4 > > Race 2, he got Fair Future into third 50/1 -$19 back. There were 13 > runners, 8 in the poll and he backed the outside 5. Out $10, back $19. > Those are his words. > > Race 3, he got Zorbette 2nd 25/1 ? about $6. Out $10 back $6. > > Race 4 was a loss $10 ? there were 16 runners and he backed the last 5, > like always but none saluted. > > Race 5 he got 2nd and 3rd 20/1 and 10/1 and only backed three of them > anyrate. Out $6 back $6 and $3.50 > > Race 6 was a loss -13 starters, 9 in the poll, left him with 4 to back ? > nil Out $8 > > Race 7 Piccanniny Hcp 2nd division 13 starters ? 8 in the poll, disregard > those. The winner is Bills selection, Top Subject, ridden by Jan Wakker, > and he gets third place in as well ? Dual Cadet. This happens occasionally, > he says nonchalantly, but at 100/1 for the winner, and 66/1 for the 3rd, > whats common place about that? > > $10 out. In $127 at least and $17.50. Bill is way ahead on the day. > > Race 8, after a cup of tea and some stewed apples and ice cream, our Bill > fronts up for the last, 10 starters, 7 in the poll, 3 to back and two of > those win and come second. Sir Ted 5/1 and Sanwah 10/1. $6 out - $8.25 and > $3.50 > > Through it all his demeanour never changed, ok he didn?t always have ice > cream he said and he was still undecided about coming back next week. He > was helping a mate in Tatura with his apples, tree training whatever that > was. He did that because he was away a few weeks. > > Race 1 ? out $4 > > Race 2 ? out $10 ? in $19 > > Race 3 ? out $6 ? in $6 > > Race 4 ? out $10 > > Race 5 ? out $6 in $9.50 > > Race 6 ? out $8 > > > > Race 7 out $10 in $144.50 > > Race 8 $6 out in $11.75. > > Total out $60 ? in $190+ > > The payouts are my calculations from the sp. The tote is more often longer > in price. > > Ok, he backed a 100/1 in there, conceded. Unlike, me, and you, Bill is > probably going to get every long priced winner/place. Eg 16/8 ?race 4 > Signal winner at 250/1 > > The race date before this one he scored with a winner at 7/1 and place > getters at 50/1,20/1,16/1,20/1. In the following weeks he got winners at > 14/1,10/1,12/1,100/1 which helped and places > 50/1,20/1,100/1,100/1,12/1,14/1,12/1,100/1,8/1,100/1,66/1,10/1,15/1,66/1. > Yes, there are 4 at 100/1 in that run ? would you ever go to Tatura again. > > Schematic from 20/9 > > LLLLL,LLLLL,WON20/1LLLL,PLACE25/1LLLL,LLLLL,PLACE > 12/1LLLL,LLLLL,PLACE13/2LLLL, > LLLLL,PLACE40/1LLLL,PLACE66/1LLLL,WON40/1LLLL,PLACE50/1LLLL,WON25/1LLLL,PLACE25/1LLLL,WON16/1LLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,WON33/1LLLL,PLACE12/1LLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,PLACE20LLLL,WON16/1LLLL,LLLLL,WON40/1LLLL,PLACE8/1LLLL,WON25/1LLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,WON33/1LLLL,PLACE12/1LLLL,LLLLL,LLLLL,PLACE15/1LLLL,PLACE25/1LLLL > > On 01/10 it went > PLACE33/1LLLL,WON9/2LLLL,PLACE50/1LLLL,WON7/4LLLL,PLACE20/1LLLL,PLACE50/1LLLL,WON25/1LLLL > > On 6/9 in race 7 WON 150/1. > > The selections are from the Sun-Herald selection poll of 16 tipsters (as > it was back then) ? they are deleted and the remainders become the > selections, up to 5 in total. > > How would you back them? > > Cheers > > > > Tony > > > Virus-free. > www.avg.com > > <#m_-5732463834450806613_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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