From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Wed Jul  1 18:48:32 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 16:48:32 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Ace's Method
In-Reply-To: <001801d64f63$f26bdc80$d7439580$@bigpond.com>
References: <001801d64f63$f26bdc80$d7439580$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <002a01d64f84$66e10a70$34a31f50$@bigpond.com>

 

 


Subject: FW: Ace's Method

 

In the 1970-1971 racing year Ace selected on 57 races resulting in 14 wins
13 places, 27 total places.  They were centred around the carnivals although
winners names etc are not known. 

Ace = AGE, and Flash Freddie and Perc the Punter were other luminaries who
may have been alter egos of the Huxleys G,D,R (as told to me)

 

The analysis of poll points awarded - winners/places

 

48 points/5 winners/10 places,
47/7/10,46/7/15,45/5/9,44/8/14,43/11/16,42/7/16,41/11/17,40/9/31,39/7/14,38/
4/14,37/12/20,36/4/18,35/13/24,34/716,33/12/23,32/12/26,31/9/15,30/10/23,29/
10/25,28/5/19,

27/7/28,26/14/31,25/5/19,24/5/25,23/9/24,22/5/18,21/3/11,20/7/22,19/9/23,18/
13/24,17/10/28,16/9/28,15/10/29,14/16/37,13/10/32,12/14/31,11/10/25,10/8/34,
9/11/29,8/14/45,

7/6/28,6/21/47,5/10/43,4/11/54,3/28/69,2/23/81,1/23/86 - hope that formats
ok.

 

There are several systems based on these 'facts' alone. Take 48 points - it
scored 5 winners, and another 5 places for a total of ten. There is no
indication as to how many 48 pointers there were - say 150 during the year
(yes, I'm guessing) and the 5 + 5 is pretty dismal as a selector, but there
are systems based just on this detail alone, either the exact 48 points
required, or the highest scorer for the meeting, or similar. One system asks
you to consider runners in points 'bands' (1-9 over 9/1), (10-18 over 9/1).
One pointers scored 23 winners and 86 places, perhaps an indication of the
richness of a number is that the place result should be 2 or 3 times the win
total. There are more places in the low numbers because there are more of
them, low numbers. 

 

The tipster poll features largely, loudly in systems

 

Cheers

 

Tony 

 

From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] 
Sent: Monday, 22 June 2020 12:23 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Ace's Method

 

Ace's Method

Ace was a tipster for a brief time in Melbourne in the early 70's. This
system is on two typewritten pages, it is perhaps the only copy.

Ace makes the observation that the tipsters poll is a good indicator of the
capability of a horse to win a race. 

The author does not discuss how they pick horses to include in a tipster
poll only that the tips, and those others of that ilk combined, will
generally find the winner.

Further, Ace concludes that after all the tips are collated and displayed
then a scratching occurs this somehow enables the remaining horses in the
poll.  Those remaining strengthen their hold on the race outcome. The
increase in SP of a remaining horse can be used to advantage in making a
profit.

Often, Ace says more often, long priced winners arrive in a race where
(poll) horses have been scratched and it is these contests that the shrewd
punter should bet on.

There are no tables, charts, statistics from which a conclusion can be
drawn. Ace said it, it must be so. This is how system authors are.

There are no rules, only conclusions per se

(a)          Consider all horses in the tipsters poll - The Age poll of 16
tipsters are used here.

(b)          Record the pre race price of all runners in the poll

(c)           On race day if there is a scratching the race can be checked
for suitability only if the scratched horse  had a pre-race price.

(d)          Compare the pre-race price (from the newspaper) with the
displayed price in the ring on race day and record those horses whose price
has increased. 

(e)          A horse whose price has increased becomes a system horse. There
may be two or more. Back them to ensure a profit, win or place or each way.

There are two paragraphs on why the chosen horse becomes a viable bet. If a
poll horse is scratched it is natural that the remaining horses will shorten
in price to counteract that scratching.

A horse outside the poll, if scratched, may not affect the market to any
extent, its removal may result in all prices being shortened across the
board.

A horse, in the poll, that lengthens in price becomes good value because it
was good enough to be chosen initially and now one of its rivals has been
removed (the scratching), nothing else otherwise has changed.

Ace reports that during the 1972-73 racing season there were 61 races bet on
and there were 15 winners, 13 seconds and thirds  and 28 total places but no
other data (average price would help)

This another way to qualify the runners in the tipsters poll (a follow on
from The Editors Method)

Results are from the following season

(a)          There has to be a scratching

(b)          The tipsters poll horse price has to lengthen

11/8 MR8 SCR Split Up - Ballarat (6/4-13/4-3/1) 1st

25/8 MR6  SCR PORTICO - Gay Icarus (7/1-8/1-12/1) 2nd

01/09 MR9 SCR  Trifling +1 - Dorica Lass (6/1- 6/1-12/1) 1st

8/9 MR5 -SCR Felipa - Taj Rossi (8/1-12/1-10/1) 1st

8/9 MR6 - SCR LEGOGLIO- Rickshaws Luck (7/1-10/1-9/1) 1st

27/9 MR2- SCR Showhonour - Gala Comet (12/1-20/1-16/1-33/1) 1st

29/9 MR2 SCR Replied - Mellition (8/1-11/1 tote) 1st

27/10 Cox Plate  SCR SOBAR, GRAND CIDIUM - Swell Time (15/1-10/1-20/1-10/1)
2nd..Magnifique (7/1 -12/1) Unp)

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 


 
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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Thu Jul  2 18:37:59 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2020 16:37:59 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Ace's Method . The Best Plan - a system
Message-ID: <003c01d6504c$18385590$48a900b0$@bigpond.com>

The analysis of newspaper selectors - you've had the scores and now the
results

Why? - this information (and some more otw) is required for operation of
'The Best Plan'  which cost a big quid way back when.

 

1stPoll Favourite/winners/placings/#number of selections - after scr, dead
heats included (260+dh+dh+dh+dh = 264)

1/158/319/556

2/87/264/555

3/79/218/556

4/63/196/547

5/46/135/499

6/30/86/405

7/19/59/259

8/5/25/156

9/3/12/80

10/0/4/46

More: see note re DH

1 &2 Poll -242 wins,579 places 

1,2,3 Poll - 321 wins, 796 places

1 to 4 Poll - 383 wins, 989 places

1 to 5 Poll - 428 wins, 1123 places

1 to 6 Poll - 458 wins, 1209 places

1 to 7 Poll - 477 wins, 1277 places

1 to 8 Poll - 482 wins,1302 places         

1 to 9 Poll - 485 wins, 1314 places        

1 to 10 Poll - 485 wins, 1318 places

More: Pre-post prices (winners/places)

ODDS ON 26/39 

1-1  11/20     

5-4 8/18

6-4 20/36

7-4 20/31

2-1 25/45

9-4 26/47

5-2 33/86     

3-1 52/117

7-2 36/74     

4-1 37/122

9-2 11/25

5-1 38/131

6-1 37/132   

7-1 22/84

8-1 37/117

10-1 22/98

12-122/103

14-1 5/22

15-1 13/65

16-1 6/19

20-1 17/66

25-1 9/50

33-1 9/40

50-1 3/22

100-1 9/1

 


From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2020 4:49 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Ace's Method

 

 

 


Subject: FW: Ace's Method

 

In the 1970-1971 racing year Ace selected on 57 races resulting in 14 wins
13 places, 27 total places.  They were centred around the carnivals although
winners names etc are not known. 

Ace = AGE, and Flash Freddie and Perc the Punter were other luminaries who
may have been alter egos of the Huxleys G,D,R (as told to me)

 

The analysis of poll points awarded - winners/places

 

48 points/5 winners/10 places,
47/7/10,46/7/15,45/5/9,44/8/14,43/11/16,42/7/16,41/11/17,40/9/31,39/7/14,38/
4/14,37/12/20,36/4/18,35/13/24,34/716,33/12/23,32/12/26,31/9/15,30/10/23,29/
10/25,28/5/19,

27/7/28,26/14/31,25/5/19,24/5/25,23/9/24,22/5/18,21/3/11,20/7/22,19/9/23,18/
13/24,17/10/28,16/9/28,15/10/29,14/16/37,13/10/32,12/14/31,11/10/25,10/8/34,
9/11/29,8/14/45,

7/6/28,6/21/47,5/10/43,4/11/54,3/28/69,2/23/81,1/23/86 - hope that formats
ok.

 

There are several systems based on these 'facts' alone. Take 48 points - it
scored 5 winners, and another 5 places for a total of ten. There is no
indication as to how many 48 pointers there were - say 150 during the year
(yes, I'm guessing) and the 5 + 5 is pretty dismal as a selector, but there
are systems based just on this detail alone, either the exact 48 points
required, or the highest scorer for the meeting, or similar. One system asks
you to consider runners in points 'bands' (1-9 over 9/1), (10-18 over 9/1).
One pointers scored 23 winners and 86 places, perhaps an indication of the
richness of a number is that the place result should be 2 or 3 times the win
total. There are more places in the low numbers because there are more of
them, low numbers. 

 

The tipster poll features largely, loudly in systems

 

Cheers

 

Tony 

 

From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] 
Sent: Monday, 22 June 2020 12:23 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Ace's Method

 

Ace's Method

Ace was a tipster for a brief time in Melbourne in the early 70's. This
system is on two typewritten pages, it is perhaps the only copy.

Ace makes the observation that the tipsters poll is a good indicator of the
capability of a horse to win a race. 

The author does not discuss how they pick horses to include in a tipster
poll only that the tips, and those others of that ilk combined, will
generally find the winner.

Further, Ace concludes that after all the tips are collated and displayed
then a scratching occurs this somehow enables the remaining horses in the
poll.  Those remaining strengthen their hold on the race outcome. The
increase in SP of a remaining horse can be used to advantage in making a
profit.

Often, Ace says more often, long priced winners arrive in a race where
(poll) horses have been scratched and it is these contests that the shrewd
punter should bet on.

There are no tables, charts, statistics from which a conclusion can be
drawn. Ace said it, it must be so. This is how system authors are.

There are no rules, only conclusions per se

(a)          Consider all horses in the tipsters poll - The Age poll of 16
tipsters are used here.

(b)          Record the pre race price of all runners in the poll

(c)           On race day if there is a scratching the race can be checked
for suitability only if the scratched horse  had a pre-race price.

(d)          Compare the pre-race price (from the newspaper) with the
displayed price in the ring on race day and record those horses whose price
has increased. 

(e)          A horse whose price has increased becomes a system horse. There
may be two or more. Back them to ensure a profit, win or place or each way.

There are two paragraphs on why the chosen horse becomes a viable bet. If a
poll horse is scratched it is natural that the remaining horses will shorten
in price to counteract that scratching.

A horse outside the poll, if scratched, may not affect the market to any
extent, its removal may result in all prices being shortened across the
board.

A horse, in the poll, that lengthens in price becomes good value because it
was good enough to be chosen initially and now one of its rivals has been
removed (the scratching), nothing else otherwise has changed.

Ace reports that during the 1972-73 racing season there were 61 races bet on
and there were 15 winners, 13 seconds and thirds  and 28 total places but no
other data (average price would help)

This another way to qualify the runners in the tipsters poll (a follow on
from The Editors Method)

Results are from the following season

(a)          There has to be a scratching

(b)          The tipsters poll horse price has to lengthen

11/8 MR8 SCR Split Up - Ballarat (6/4-13/4-3/1) 1st

25/8 MR6  SCR PORTICO - Gay Icarus (7/1-8/1-12/1) 2nd

01/09 MR9 SCR  Trifling +1 - Dorica Lass (6/1- 6/1-12/1) 1st

8/9 MR5 -SCR Felipa - Taj Rossi (8/1-12/1-10/1) 1st

8/9 MR6 - SCR LEGOGLIO- Rickshaws Luck (7/1-10/1-9/1) 1st

27/9 MR2- SCR Showhonour - Gala Comet (12/1-20/1-16/1-33/1) 1st

29/9 MR2 SCR Replied - Mellition (8/1-11/1 tote) 1st

27/10 Cox Plate  SCR SOBAR, GRAND CIDIUM - Swell Time (15/1-10/1-20/1-10/1)
2nd..Magnifique (7/1 -12/1) Unp)

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 


 
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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Wed Jul 15 11:01:34 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 09:01:34 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Less Avoirdupois, occasionally more Digraph,
 more winners/places
Message-ID: <000d01d65a43$7c82bda0$758838e0$@bigpond.com>

Is there a system in this?

Jockeys appear to have more than an average of double letters in their names
(digraphs?)

Eg aLLen,  laFFerty, nOOnan, hiLL, biLLy (which may not count), roDD, duNN,
schmiTT, mOOr, carlEEn, campbeLL rawiLLer, haRRy, bayliSS, saLLy WyNNe,
gryLLs, caLLow, wiLL, hoLLand, etc.

Or, conversely somewhat, my own moniker morphed to moFFaTT when a scots
fisherman seems to have snagged Ireland sometime, and maybe neither of them
could spel, and the double emphasis got applied.

Or, plainly, I am just overthinking things. 

Cheers

Tony


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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Sun Jul 19 15:10:19 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 13:10:19 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] 4 of the best - a system
Message-ID: <001101d65d8a$e688bfc0$b39a3f40$@bigpond.com>

Dickie was a brickie - except he wore coveralls (overalls to us) a white
shirt and a tie, often a tweeded coat with a Saville Row label which he
showed you if you asked, or challenged him about it. I never did, neither.
That coat had pockets outside and inside, I saw them often when he folded
his earnings, winked, tapped himself outside of the money holding pocket and
marched off, I mean he held an imaginary cous cane (like British Generals
had) and he marched off swinging the right arm out and up to the horizontal.
If you had seen him you know whom I am writing about - although perhaps not
the brickie bit.

He was difficult to talk to, stand offish they said, cranky said someone,
tapped said a few, f---ed in the head was a consensus uttered aloud and in
his presence. I never said it, never saw it, and while it is true I didn't
talk to him much, I listened more often, when he spoke in Kentish English,
so free became fwee, and three became fwee too, but before the last, in that
8 minutes between settling and writing new business I could get a mug of tea
finished, it was then about 50 minutes old at that point and really it was
more of a smoke break, my Boss and my workmates had never smoked, and what I
am trying to tell you is Dickie sat opposite me and he spoke and I listened.
He asked and I spoke, generally about the workings of the stand, and it was
then I learnt he couldn't read, he knew numbers alright but he never learnt
to read. Pity. He did smoke though, mine, and he was a barrowman to three
layers, taking the mud to them after mixing it, and keeping up the brick
numbers, loading them 4 at a time on the horse near the bricklayer, at a
little below hip height so that production went on all day, and they got
paid on production, he didn't, he got a wage and worked like three men for
that he said. He seemed to have built most of north eastern Melbourne. That
barrow had a load of mud and 'on the plate' on the handle he carried 16
bricks, 2 loads of 8 each to each man in turn, non-stop. He may have been in
his 60's then.

What Dickie did was back four in handicaps, numbers 2 3 4 5, or the first
four if the toppie was scratched. His reasoning he said was the top weight
was often an over the hill horse who got the number from past deeds, deeds
from 4 or more years ago often, and now it was weighted out of contention. 2
may be likewise but if it was less than 5 years, actually 5 or less, then it
had earned its position off recent form, inside 12 months (he said 'Yar').
Similarly the 3, 4, 5 numbers would have form commensurate with their
standing, they had earned the right to be there, good form in recent times
being the bench mark. There was an age clause although it seems he ignored
that more often than using it, 5 years or less of course.

He was always alone, always marching, truly, and if he was with you and
another sat for a chat, off he went, military style as I have described
leaving the new arrival perplexed until I explained it wasn't them, it's how
Dickie was. He bet in quids, and called the bets as numbers. His quids were
dollars of course, but you called it back to be sure, then you turned to
read horse 2, horse three and the remaining so that the penciller Stewart
didn't have to research too much (he would know them anyway). Lew rarely
spoke, just wrote, and may have had the opinion of most about Dickie. 

Its how Dickie was, perhaps it's where he really wanted to be,
militaristically inclined with that march of his, and that voice that a
stage director would die for, even a whisper wasn't.

His race day attire was what he wore at work, with gummies (wellington
boots) - he cheated on the immigration form, he said, to get here, ticked a
box or something when it inquired about your education level, and anyway the
whole family came here and everybody went back, except him, the dog and the
cat and he continued living in and paying the mortgage on the cottage/
cottich.

He might have been in front betting with us.

Summary: In handicaps back 2,3,4,5 - end
You could/can tiz it up with an age clause, a requirement of a win in the
last 4 starts, senior rider - Dickie never did

Cheers

Tony





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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Sun Jul 19 19:04:28 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 17:04:28 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] 4 of the best - a system
In-Reply-To: <001101d65d8a$e688bfc0$b39a3f40$@bigpond.com>
References: <001101d65d8a$e688bfc0$b39a3f40$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <000d01d65dab$9c112b50$d43381f0$@bigpond.com>

Scone R1 -2345 - Placed 3,4,5 
Scone R5- 2345 - Placed 3,6,10
Scone R6 - 2345- Placed 1,3,12
Scone R7 - 2356 - Placed 2,11,3
Wodonga R5 -3456 - Placed 6,5,4
Wodonga R6 - 2456 - Placed 1,4,11
Wodonga R7 - 2456 - Placed 1,2,5
Wodonga R8 - 2345- Placed 3,2,11
Sun Coast R5 - 2345 - Placed 4,2,3
Sun Coast R6 - 2345 - Placed 2,1,6 (Aziz Jamil Couer -golly!)
Sun Coast R7 -2367 - Placed 8,2,10
Sun Coast R8 - 2345 - Placed 2,7,22
P Augusta R3 -2345 - Placed 3,1,7
P Augusta R4 - 2567 - Placed 2,6,5
P Augusta R5 - 4567 - Placed 11,6,4
P Augusta R6 -2345 - Placed 6,4,10
P Augusta R7 -2345 - Placed 4,2,7
Paknham R8 -2345 - Placed 5,9,4
Paknham R9 - 2468 - Placed 12,12,4
Narrandera R3 - 2356 - Placed 1,2,3
Narrandera R4 -2345 - Placed 8,11,10
Narrandera R5 -2456 - Placed 8,7,5
Narrandera R6 - 2345 - Placed 4,2,3
Narrandera R7 - 2345 - Placed 5,7,10
Narrandera R8 - 2345  Placed 4,3,5
Hobart R1 -2345 - Placed 1,3,6
Hobart R6 - 2345 - Placed 7,1,3
Hobart R7 - 2345 - Placed 8,3,12
Hobart R8 - 2356 - Placed 8,2,6
Hobart R9 - 2345 - Placed 2,5,3
Hobart R10 - 2345 - Placed 1,7,9
Kalgoorlie R3 - 2345 - Placed 3,10,1
Kalgoorlie R4 - 2345 - Placed 4,6,2
Kalgoorlie R5 - 2345 - Placed5,6,7
Kalgoorlie R6 - 2345 - Placed 11,3,4
Kalgoorlie R7 - 2345 - Placed 3,1,4
Kalgoorlie R8 - 2345 - Placed 2,4,5

Winners ( Scone $4, $6.20, $4.70) 
(Wodonga $3.10, $2)
(Sunny Coast $7, $10.40, $2)
(P.A. $10.80, $1.90, $12.20)
(Pakenham $5, $2.10)
(Narrandera $16.40, $2.90, $18.20)
(Hobart $7.10)
(Kalgoorlie  $3, $4.30, $2.90, $3.10, $6.50)
Out $148 In $135

Another way

cheers

Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat
Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2020 1:10 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] 4 of the best - a system

Dickie was a brickie - except he wore coveralls (overalls to us) a white
shirt and a tie, often a tweeded coat with a Saville Row label which he
showed you if you asked, or challenged him about it. I never did, neither.
That coat had pockets outside and inside, I saw them often when he folded
his earnings, winked, tapped himself outside of the money holding pocket and
marched off, I mean he held an imaginary cous cane (like British Generals
had) and he marched off swinging the right arm out and up to the horizontal.
If you had seen him you know whom I am writing about - although perhaps not
the brickie bit.

He was difficult to talk to, stand offish they said, cranky said someone,
tapped said a few, f---ed in the head was a consensus uttered aloud and in
his presence. I never said it, never saw it, and while it is true I didn't
talk to him much, I listened more often, when he spoke in Kentish English,
so free became fwee, and three became fwee too, but before the last, in that
8 minutes between settling and writing new business I could get a mug of tea
finished, it was then about 50 minutes old at that point and really it was
more of a smoke break, my Boss and my workmates had never smoked, and what I
am trying to tell you is Dickie sat opposite me and he spoke and I listened.
He asked and I spoke, generally about the workings of the stand, and it was
then I learnt he couldn't read, he knew numbers alright but he never learnt
to read. Pity. He did smoke though, mine, and he was a barrowman to three
layers, taking the mud to them after mixing it, and keeping up the brick
numbers, loading them 4 at a time on the horse near the bricklayer, at a
little below hip height so that production went on all day, and they got
paid on production, he didn't, he got a wage and worked like three men for
that he said. He seemed to have built most of north eastern Melbourne. That
barrow had a load of mud and 'on the plate' on the handle he carried 16
bricks, 2 loads of 8 each to each man in turn, non-stop. He may have been in
his 60's then.

What Dickie did was back four in handicaps, numbers 2 3 4 5, or the first
four if the toppie was scratched. His reasoning he said was the top weight
was often an over the hill horse who got the number from past deeds, deeds
from 4 or more years ago often, and now it was weighted out of contention. 2
may be likewise but if it was less than 5 years, actually 5 or less, then it
had earned its position off recent form, inside 12 months (he said 'Yar').
Similarly the 3, 4, 5 numbers would have form commensurate with their
standing, they had earned the right to be there, good form in recent times
being the bench mark. There was an age clause although it seems he ignored
that more often than using it, 5 years or less of course.

He was always alone, always marching, truly, and if he was with you and
another sat for a chat, off he went, military style as I have described
leaving the new arrival perplexed until I explained it wasn't them, it's how
Dickie was. He bet in quids, and called the bets as numbers. His quids were
dollars of course, but you called it back to be sure, then you turned to
read horse 2, horse three and the remaining so that the penciller Stewart
didn't have to research too much (he would know them anyway). Lew rarely
spoke, just wrote, and may have had the opinion of most about Dickie. 

Its how Dickie was, perhaps it's where he really wanted to be,
militaristically inclined with that march of his, and that voice that a
stage director would die for, even a whisper wasn't.

His race day attire was what he wore at work, with gummies (wellington
boots) - he cheated on the immigration form, he said, to get here, ticked a
box or something when it inquired about your education level, and anyway the
whole family came here and everybody went back, except him, the dog and the
cat and he continued living in and paying the mortgage on the cottage/
cottich.

He might have been in front betting with us.

Summary: In handicaps back 2,3,4,5 - end You could/can tiz it up with an age
clause, a requirement of a win in the last 4 starts, senior rider - Dickie
never did

Cheers

Tony





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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 22:39:16 2020
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2020 22:39:16 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] 4 of the best - a system
In-Reply-To: <000d01d65dab$9c112b50$d43381f0$@bigpond.com>
References: <001101d65d8a$e688bfc0$b39a3f40$@bigpond.com>
	<000d01d65dab$9c112b50$d43381f0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b2UG9fUY+R0e58sJbuCXPoeyZPmz=X2ZWP-TfgcEmHkFw@mail.gmail.com>

It must be bloody frustrating not being able to read.
Don't reckon he'd last long these days, Tony.
The basis of racing seems to have changed. Fewer handicaps? Less older
horses going round for years on end.
Still, an interesting approach.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 19:04, Tony Moffat <tonymoffat at bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> Scone R1 -2345 - Placed 3,4,5
> Scone R5- 2345 - Placed 3,6,10
> Scone R6 - 2345- Placed 1,3,12
> Scone R7 - 2356 - Placed 2,11,3
> Wodonga R5 -3456 - Placed 6,5,4
> Wodonga R6 - 2456 - Placed 1,4,11
> Wodonga R7 - 2456 - Placed 1,2,5
> Wodonga R8 - 2345- Placed 3,2,11
> Sun Coast R5 - 2345 - Placed 4,2,3
> Sun Coast R6 - 2345 - Placed 2,1,6 (Aziz Jamil Couer -golly!)
> Sun Coast R7 -2367 - Placed 8,2,10
> Sun Coast R8 - 2345 - Placed 2,7,22
> P Augusta R3 -2345 - Placed 3,1,7
> P Augusta R4 - 2567 - Placed 2,6,5
> P Augusta R5 - 4567 - Placed 11,6,4
> P Augusta R6 -2345 - Placed 6,4,10
> P Augusta R7 -2345 - Placed 4,2,7
> Paknham R8 -2345 - Placed 5,9,4
> Paknham R9 - 2468 - Placed 12,12,4
> Narrandera R3 - 2356 - Placed 1,2,3
> Narrandera R4 -2345 - Placed 8,11,10
> Narrandera R5 -2456 - Placed 8,7,5
> Narrandera R6 - 2345 - Placed 4,2,3
> Narrandera R7 - 2345 - Placed 5,7,10
> Narrandera R8 - 2345  Placed 4,3,5
> Hobart R1 -2345 - Placed 1,3,6
> Hobart R6 - 2345 - Placed 7,1,3
> Hobart R7 - 2345 - Placed 8,3,12
> Hobart R8 - 2356 - Placed 8,2,6
> Hobart R9 - 2345 - Placed 2,5,3
> Hobart R10 - 2345 - Placed 1,7,9
> Kalgoorlie R3 - 2345 - Placed 3,10,1
> Kalgoorlie R4 - 2345 - Placed 4,6,2
> Kalgoorlie R5 - 2345 - Placed5,6,7
> Kalgoorlie R6 - 2345 - Placed 11,3,4
> Kalgoorlie R7 - 2345 - Placed 3,1,4
> Kalgoorlie R8 - 2345 - Placed 2,4,5
>
> Winners ( Scone $4, $6.20, $4.70)
> (Wodonga $3.10, $2)
> (Sunny Coast $7, $10.40, $2)
> (P.A. $10.80, $1.90, $12.20)
> (Pakenham $5, $2.10)
> (Narrandera $16.40, $2.90, $18.20)
> (Hobart $7.10)
> (Kalgoorlie  $3, $4.30, $2.90, $3.10, $6.50)
> Out $148 In $135
>
> Another way
>
> cheers
>
> Tony
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat
> Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2020 1:10 PM
> To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> Subject: [AusRace] 4 of the best - a system
>
> Dickie was a brickie - except he wore coveralls (overalls to us) a white
> shirt and a tie, often a tweeded coat with a Saville Row label which he
> showed you if you asked, or challenged him about it. I never did, neither.
> That coat had pockets outside and inside, I saw them often when he folded
> his earnings, winked, tapped himself outside of the money holding pocket and
> marched off, I mean he held an imaginary cous cane (like British Generals
> had) and he marched off swinging the right arm out and up to the horizontal.
> If you had seen him you know whom I am writing about - although perhaps not
> the brickie bit.
>
> He was difficult to talk to, stand offish they said, cranky said someone,
> tapped said a few, f---ed in the head was a consensus uttered aloud and in
> his presence. I never said it, never saw it, and while it is true I didn't
> talk to him much, I listened more often, when he spoke in Kentish English,
> so free became fwee, and three became fwee too, but before the last, in that
> 8 minutes between settling and writing new business I could get a mug of tea
> finished, it was then about 50 minutes old at that point and really it was
> more of a smoke break, my Boss and my workmates had never smoked, and what I
> am trying to tell you is Dickie sat opposite me and he spoke and I listened.
> He asked and I spoke, generally about the workings of the stand, and it was
> then I learnt he couldn't read, he knew numbers alright but he never learnt
> to read. Pity. He did smoke though, mine, and he was a barrowman to three
> layers, taking the mud to them after mixing it, and keeping up the brick
> numbers, loading them 4 at a time on the horse near the bricklayer, at a
> little below hip height so that production went on all day, and they got
> paid on production, he didn't, he got a wage and worked like three men for
> that he said. He seemed to have built most of north eastern Melbourne. That
> barrow had a load of mud and 'on the plate' on the handle he carried 16
> bricks, 2 loads of 8 each to each man in turn, non-stop. He may have been in
> his 60's then.
>
> What Dickie did was back four in handicaps, numbers 2 3 4 5, or the first
> four if the toppie was scratched. His reasoning he said was the top weight
> was often an over the hill horse who got the number from past deeds, deeds
> from 4 or more years ago often, and now it was weighted out of contention. 2
> may be likewise but if it was less than 5 years, actually 5 or less, then it
> had earned its position off recent form, inside 12 months (he said 'Yar').
> Similarly the 3, 4, 5 numbers would have form commensurate with their
> standing, they had earned the right to be there, good form in recent times
> being the bench mark. There was an age clause although it seems he ignored
> that more often than using it, 5 years or less of course.
>
> He was always alone, always marching, truly, and if he was with you and
> another sat for a chat, off he went, military style as I have described
> leaving the new arrival perplexed until I explained it wasn't them, it's how
> Dickie was. He bet in quids, and called the bets as numbers. His quids were
> dollars of course, but you called it back to be sure, then you turned to
> read horse 2, horse three and the remaining so that the penciller Stewart
> didn't have to research too much (he would know them anyway). Lew rarely
> spoke, just wrote, and may have had the opinion of most about Dickie.
>
> Its how Dickie was, perhaps it's where he really wanted to be,
> militaristically inclined with that march of his, and that voice that a
> stage director would die for, even a whisper wasn't.
>
> His race day attire was what he wore at work, with gummies (wellington
> boots) - he cheated on the immigration form, he said, to get here, ticked a
> box or something when it inquired about your education level, and anyway the
> whole family came here and everybody went back, except him, the dog and the
> cat and he continued living in and paying the mortgage on the cottage/
> cottich.
>
> He might have been in front betting with us.
>
> Summary: In handicaps back 2,3,4,5 - end You could/can tiz it up with an age
> clause, a requirement of a win in the last 4 starts, senior rider - Dickie
> never did
>
> Cheers
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
>
> --
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>
>
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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Mon Jul 20 09:57:46 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:57:46 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] 4 of the best - a system
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b2UG9fUY+R0e58sJbuCXPoeyZPmz=X2ZWP-TfgcEmHkFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001101d65d8a$e688bfc0$b39a3f40$@bigpond.com>	<000d01d65dab$9c112b50$d43381f0$@bigpond.com>
	<CAJfP4b2UG9fUY+R0e58sJbuCXPoeyZPmz=X2ZWP-TfgcEmHkFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003001d65e28$66ededa0$34c9c8e0$@bigpond.com>

True. Frustrating as you said. Dickie had an advocate,  a helper, a person
who looked after his affairs. 

He had a well developed distrust of most everything eg bookies knew who was
going to win, an opinion I think I dissuaded, at least I hope so.

But Police, students, non-working adults, God, South Melbourne, North
Melbourne, conservative politics, trains, trams, lettuce, and a few other
important things all of which had to be the relayed opinions of his
workmates, surely. All of these were spoken about with derision, dislike,
distrust although he lived in North Melbourne and used trams for transport
other than work related, as a conveyance to the Course for instance. Still,
he worked hard, and paid tax, and you get to opine as a result. It's getting
an audience, and agreement, that's the hard bit.  He had never voted but
went to Labour Party meetings. 

You get a lot when you listen. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of
norsaintpublishing at gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, 19 July 2020 8:39 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] 4 of the best - a system

It must be bloody frustrating not being able to read.
Don't reckon he'd last long these days, Tony.
The basis of racing seems to have changed. Fewer handicaps? Less older
horses going round for years on end.
Still, an interesting approach.

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 at 19:04, Tony Moffat <tonymoffat at bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> Scone R1 -2345 - Placed 3,4,5
> Scone R5- 2345 - Placed 3,6,10
SNIPPED
.com


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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Jul 21 10:11:42 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 10:11:42 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
Message-ID: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>

I received a text message from BetFair "Leonard Bruce, the more races in SA
you bet on this weekend, the bigger your winnings boost on that meeting....
Have bets with a net liability of $30......every race of the day for 100%
winnings boost.

 

I therefore bet $30 on each race but they paid only 50% winnings boost.

 

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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Tue Jul 21 12:27:26 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 10:27:26 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Prince - a system
Message-ID: <000101d65f06$7a02ba90$6e082fb0$@bigpond.com>

The author was Prince - s/he suggests that this one was the King of systems
but that seemed pretentious.

As Dickie the brickie utilised the Tab numbers 2,3,4,5 so Prince used the
ranked 2,3,4,5 PLACE dividends to choose their bets with the proviso that
this system was in use all over the world. 

The results here are from choices made after the event. Choosing your bets
in the last minutes before the start might be stressful and there may be
different selections (I guess)

SUMMARY: Rank the PLACE dividends of all runners. Selections come from those
ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th.

There are no instructions regarding ties, none of the results  (they gave)
display a tie. In picking the results here (these listed below) I ignored
races with ties although I included some to demonstrate (something).

Scone R1 - 5,3,4,2 - Placed 3,4,5,1 (win, place, trifecta, quinella)
Scone R5 - 6,12,4,10 - Placed 3,6,10,12 (no bet - dividends tied)
Scone R6 - 1,6,3,2 - Placed 1,3,12,15 
Scone R7 - 8,9,11,3 - Placed 2,11,3,7 (no bet - dividends tied)
Sunny Coast R5 - the time honoured Wimmers Creaming Soda Class 3
And this demonstrates the need for a rule to separate tied dividends
We had 2.10+2.10, 2.80+2.80, 3.00+3.00 for ranked 2,3,4,5,6,7
Sun Coast R6 2,9,1,7 - Placed 2,1,6,7
Sun Coast R7 - tied dividends
P Augusta R3 - 2,3,6,4 - Placed 3,1,7,2
P Augusta R4 - 7,2,8,6 - Placed 2,6,5,8
P Augusta R5 - 6,4,7,9 - Placed 11,6,4,1 (loss)
P Augusta R6 - 6,2,3,10 - Placed 6,4,10,1
P Augusta R7 - 10,11,8,7 - Placed 4,2,7,14 (loss)

Cheers

Tony





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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Tue Jul 21 20:55:10 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 18:55:10 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Prince - a system
In-Reply-To: <000101d65f06$7a02ba90$6e082fb0$@bigpond.com>
References: <000101d65f06$7a02ba90$6e082fb0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <001301d65f4d$67ee0160$37ca0420$@bigpond.com>

Critique: This won't work. It looks good in principle however three things
work against you.
Ties - the place dividend is ranked and you back 2nd>5th PLACE to snare the
winner, quinella 
and often two or more of those PLACE dividends are the same, tied. This can,
and has worked in your favour
when those tied fail to flatter and a loss results, although you weren't on
them (because of the ties)
More often the tied dividend runners do win/place and you weren't on them
(because of the ties)
The other scenarios are the favourite wins , and you weren't on them because
you exclude the favourite
Or some other runner, not favourite, not 2,3,4,5th, wins/places and ousts
you.

Perhaps there are too many choices, TAB Places, Fixed Places and I wasn't
aware that there was 
often variation between these two. I had assumed that 2,3,4,5 on one side
would correspond almost
with say 3,4,2,5 on the other. It rarely happens. Because of the PLACE rank
requirement it is not
possible to use the Fixed and Market fluctuations, which show only win
prices.

I will do an exam of win prices being used to choose runners and let you
know.

For the time being, don't.

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat
Sent: Tuesday, 21 July 2020 10:27 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Prince - a system

The author was Prince - s/he suggests that this one was the King of systems
but that seemed pretentious.

As Dickie the brickie utilised the Tab numbers 2,3,4,5 so Prince used the
ranked 2,3,4,5 PLACE dividends to choose their bets with the proviso that
this system was in use all over the world. 

The results here are from choices made after the event. Choosing your bets
in the last minutes before the start might be stressful and there may be
different selections (I guess)

SUMMARY: Rank the PLACE dividends of all runners. Selections come from those
ranked 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th.

There are no instructions regarding ties, none of the results  (they gave)
display a tie. In picking the results here (these listed below) I ignored
races with ties although I included some to demonstrate (something).

Scone R1 - 5,3,4,2 - Placed 3,4,5,1 (win, place, trifecta, quinella)
Scone R5 - 6,12,4,10 - Placed 3,6,10,12 (no bet - dividends tied)
Scone R6 - 1,6,3,2 - Placed 1,3,12,15 
Scone R7 - 8,9,11,3 - Placed 2,11,3,7 (no bet - dividends tied)
Sunny Coast R5 - the time honoured Wimmers Creaming Soda Class 3
And this demonstrates the need for a rule to separate tied dividends
We had 2.10+2.10, 2.80+2.80, 3.00+3.00 for ranked 2,3,4,5,6,7
Sun Coast R6 2,9,1,7 - Placed 2,1,6,7
Sun Coast R7 - tied dividends
P Augusta R3 - 2,3,6,4 - Placed 3,1,7,2
P Augusta R4 - 7,2,8,6 - Placed 2,6,5,8
P Augusta R5 - 6,4,7,9 - Placed 11,6,4,1 (loss)
P Augusta R6 - 6,2,3,10 - Placed 6,4,10,1
P Augusta R7 - 10,11,8,7 - Placed 4,2,7,14 (loss)

Cheers

Tony





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From i8work at aussiebb.com.au  Wed Jul 22 03:25:06 2020
From: i8work at aussiebb.com.au (i8work at aussiebb.com.au)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 03:25:06 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
In-Reply-To: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <87ea23704a5d0257b288b2af70ba3ac6@aussiebb.com.au>

......and when you complained?

On 2020-07-21 10:11, L.B.Loveday wrote:
> I received a text message from BetFair "Leonard Bruce, the more races
> in SA you bet on this weekend, the bigger your winnings boost on that
> meeting?... Have bets with a net liability of $30?.....every race
> of the day for 100% winnings boost.
> 
> I therefore bet $30 on each race but they paid only 50% winnings
> boost.




From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Jul 22 07:11:09 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 07:11:09 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
In-Reply-To: <87ea23704a5d0257b288b2af70ba3ac6@aussiebb.com.au>
References: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>
	<87ea23704a5d0257b288b2af70ba3ac6@aussiebb.com.au>
Message-ID: <013101d65fa3$76b7bff0$64273fd0$@ozemail.com.au>

Have not bothered; should do, will do. Some day. Can it really be incompetent programming? If so, "surely" others have complained and BF would rectify everyone's boost not just the complainer?

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing On Behalf Of i8work at aussiebb.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2020 3:25 AM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges

......and when you complained?

On 2020-07-21 10:11, L.B.Loveday wrote:
> I received a text message from BetFair "Leonard Bruce, the more races 
> in SA you bet on this weekend, the bigger your winnings boost on that 
> meeting?... Have bets with a net liability of $30?.....every race of 
> the day for 100% winnings boost.
> 
> I therefore bet $30 on each race but they paid only 50% winnings 
> boost.


_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com
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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 08:22:39 2020
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2020 08:22:39 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
In-Reply-To: <013101d65fa3$76b7bff0$64273fd0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>
	<87ea23704a5d0257b288b2af70ba3ac6@aussiebb.com.au>
	<013101d65fa3$76b7bff0$64273fd0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b1MDo1+E4WTpBcUA4NCc6eXtJxAmQmE=qvbgHqjYFjTjA@mail.gmail.com>

I had a strange experience on BF the other day.
A week ago I was asking $21 for a horse and it was trading at around
$10 at the jump, so was never going to get filled. I thought about
cancelling the asking price in an effort to make a bit more room on
the screen but in the end didn't bother. Then immediately after the
jump it told me I'd been filled, and yet a mate of mine who was asking
for $11 on the same horse, didn't get filled.  How on earth can that
happen? Very strange.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 at 07:12, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> Have not bothered; should do, will do. Some day. Can it really be incompetent programming? If so, "surely" others have complained and BF would rectify everyone's boost not just the complainer?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Racing On Behalf Of i8work at aussiebb.com.au
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 July 2020 3:25 AM
> To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
> Subject: Re: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
>
> ......and when you complained?
>
> On 2020-07-21 10:11, L.B.Loveday wrote:
> > I received a text message from BetFair "Leonard Bruce, the more races
> > in SA you bet on this weekend, the bigger your winnings boost on that
> > meeting?... Have bets with a net liability of $30?.....every race of
> > the day for 100% winnings boost.
> >
> > I therefore bet $30 on each race but they paid only 50% winnings
> > boost.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com



From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 14:10:44 2020
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 14:10:44 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Sportsbetting?
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b2UUFW0E7iD3iMuMczELN6Cf4ZqPCjF-xBpuudiU3pmLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone know anything about this outfit?
Just got a call from some young sharper trying to sell Gator Gately's
tips and reckons the above mob are offering 2% rebates on losing bets
for the lifetime of the account if one is opened now.



From RaceStats at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 23 16:24:13 2020
From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 06:24:13 +0000
Subject: [AusRace] Sportsbetting?
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b2UUFW0E7iD3iMuMczELN6Cf4ZqPCjF-xBpuudiU3pmLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJfP4b2UUFW0E7iD3iMuMczELN6Cf4ZqPCjF-xBpuudiU3pmLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MN2PR04MB58217ECC1E69BE06F76F8F4EBB760@MN2PR04MB5821.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Selling his tips?
They are available in Best Bets and I wouldn't be following them.
Lindsay

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2020 2:11 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Sportsbetting?

Anyone know anything about this outfit?
Just got a call from some young sharper trying to sell Gator Gately's tips and reckons the above mob are offering 2% rebates on losing bets for the lifetime of the account if one is opened now.

_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com



From i8work at aussiebb.com.au  Thu Jul 23 17:08:54 2020
From: i8work at aussiebb.com.au (i8work at aussiebb.com.au)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 17:08:54 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b1MDo1+E4WTpBcUA4NCc6eXtJxAmQmE=qvbgHqjYFjTjA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>
	<87ea23704a5d0257b288b2af70ba3ac6@aussiebb.com.au>
	<013101d65fa3$76b7bff0$64273fd0$@ozemail.com.au>
	<CAJfP4b1MDo1+E4WTpBcUA4NCc6eXtJxAmQmE=qvbgHqjYFjTjA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0c47a18a8decc587d7eb4d799447d3cc@aussiebb.com.au>

I can see a way...........your bet is "SP at close/jump" - at the close 
there is pretty much noone in the back market so you get filled by a 
layer who also has SP.........your mate bet "cancel on close/jump" So 
he's out of the picture instantly then BF will do the 
SP's.............unusual but possible, and the thinner the market the 
more likely.

On 2020-07-22 08:22, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote:
> I had a strange experience on BF the other day.
> A week ago I was asking $21 for a horse and it was trading at around
> $10 at the jump, so was never going to get filled. I thought about
> cancelling the asking price in an effort to make a bit more room on
> the screen but in the end didn't bother. Then immediately after the
> jump it told me I'd been filled, and yet a mate of mine who was asking
> for $11 on the same horse, didn't get filled.  How on earth can that
> happen? Very strange.
> 



From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 19:50:53 2020
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 19:50:53 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
In-Reply-To: <0c47a18a8decc587d7eb4d799447d3cc@aussiebb.com.au>
References: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>
	<87ea23704a5d0257b288b2af70ba3ac6@aussiebb.com.au>
	<013101d65fa3$76b7bff0$64273fd0$@ozemail.com.au>
	<CAJfP4b1MDo1+E4WTpBcUA4NCc6eXtJxAmQmE=qvbgHqjYFjTjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0c47a18a8decc587d7eb4d799447d3cc@aussiebb.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b2Xc9bCWFo67-GfgEia+bM5ZEsB1VJRZAt1fc63aF2T6w@mail.gmail.com>

I'll check with him but I doubt he cancelled as it was hovering close
to his asking price. It's the first anomaly I've ever noticed with BF.

On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 at 17:09, <i8work at aussiebb.com.au> wrote:
>
> I can see a way...........your bet is "SP at close/jump" - at the close
> there is pretty much noone in the back market so you get filled by a
> layer who also has SP.........your mate bet "cancel on close/jump" So
> he's out of the picture instantly then BF will do the
> SP's.............unusual but possible, and the thinner the market the
> more likely.
>
> On 2020-07-22 08:22, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote:
> > I had a strange experience on BF the other day.
> > A week ago I was asking $21 for a horse and it was trading at around
> > $10 at the jump, so was never going to get filled. I thought about
> > cancelling the asking price in an effort to make a bit more room on
> > the screen but in the end didn't bother. Then immediately after the
> > jump it told me I'd been filled, and yet a mate of mine who was asking
> > for $11 on the same horse, didn't get filled.  How on earth can that
> > happen? Very strange.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com



From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Thu Jul 23 19:55:01 2020
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2020 19:55:01 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Sportsbetting?
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR04MB58217ECC1E69BE06F76F8F4EBB760@MN2PR04MB5821.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJfP4b2UUFW0E7iD3iMuMczELN6Cf4ZqPCjF-xBpuudiU3pmLQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MN2PR04MB58217ECC1E69BE06F76F8F4EBB760@MN2PR04MB5821.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b2kmFYZCy1-toKQbt8SMM6uYzqo6Z0+U0ZCiyfdzNe8KQ@mail.gmail.com>

Of course wouldn't touch them. I think he was from the Great
Tipoff website. Not sure what that's all about.
Apparently though his paid for tips are more detailed. ?  Whatever that
means.


On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 at 16:24, Race Stats <RaceStats at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Selling his tips?
> They are available in Best Bets and I wouldn't be following them.
> Lindsay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> On Behalf Of
> norsaintpublishing at gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, 23 July 2020 2:11 PM
> To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
> Subject: [AusRace] Sportsbetting?
>
> Anyone know anything about this outfit?
> Just got a call from some young sharper trying to sell Gator Gately's tips
> and reckons the above mob are offering 2% rebates on losing bets for the
> lifetime of the account if one is opened now.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From i8work at aussiebb.com.au  Fri Jul 24 02:54:27 2020
From: i8work at aussiebb.com.au (i8work at aussiebb.com.au)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2020 02:54:27 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] BetFair also reneges
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b2Xc9bCWFo67-GfgEia+bM5ZEsB1VJRZAt1fc63aF2T6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <005a01d65ef3$84f87e70$8ee97b50$@ozemail.com.au>
	<87ea23704a5d0257b288b2af70ba3ac6@aussiebb.com.au>
	<013101d65fa3$76b7bff0$64273fd0$@ozemail.com.au>
	<CAJfP4b1MDo1+E4WTpBcUA4NCc6eXtJxAmQmE=qvbgHqjYFjTjA@mail.gmail.com>
	<0c47a18a8decc587d7eb4d799447d3cc@aussiebb.com.au>
	<CAJfP4b2Xc9bCWFo67-GfgEia+bM5ZEsB1VJRZAt1fc63aF2T6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <bd4c0004e4115b3f133609682de8dff1@aussiebb.com.au>

It's automatically cancelled at jump so he doesn't do anything (aside 
from choose to bet that way...I'd say many(most?) do as it keeps you on 
the market till jump, avoids the lottery of the SP price and keeps you 
out of in-play.

On 2020-07-23 19:50, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote:
> I'll check with him but I doubt he cancelled as it was hovering close
> to his asking price. It's the first anomaly I've ever noticed with BF.
> 
> On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 at 17:09, <i8work at aussiebb.com.au> wrote:
>> 
>> I can see a way...........your bet is "SP at close/jump" - at the 
>> close
>> there is pretty much noone in the back market so you get filled by a
>> layer who also has SP.........your mate bet "cancel on close/jump" So
>> he's out of the picture instantly then BF will do the
>> SP's.............unusual but possible, and the thinner the market the
>> more likely.
>> 
>> On 2020-07-22 08:22, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote:
>> > I had a strange experience on BF the other day.
>> > A week ago I was asking $21 for a horse and it was trading at around
>> > $10 at the jump, so was never going to get filled. I thought about
>> > cancelling the asking price in an effort to make a bit more room on
>> > the screen but in the end didn't bother. Then immediately after the
>> > jump it told me I'd been filled, and yet a mate of mine who was asking
>> > for $11 on the same horse, didn't get filled.  How on earth can that
>> > happen? Very strange.
>> >
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Racing mailing list
>> Racing at ausrace.com
>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com



From mickbarry at bigpond.com  Sun Jul 26 10:35:13 2020
From: mickbarry at bigpond.com (mickbarry mickbarry)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 10:35:13 +1000 (AEST)
Subject: [AusRace] Gary Harley's Prayer
Message-ID: <1ab32d87.f5957.173888b89ff.Webtop.96@bigpond.com>

While listening to Sky?s live ?Thoroughbred Central? coverage of Wyong 
races during the week, co-presenter Gary Harley was heard to plead after 
a particularly lean day on the tip -
?Please God help me to pick the winner of the last?.
Wow I thought, never have I heard that before on a racing program.
Well it worked.
Whilst the horses were parading Gary must have had a vision.
He then changed his original tip to that of Vienna Rain.
The angels must also have been listening as the horse was heavily backed 
in to start favourite.
Into the home straight the leader left the fence to let Vienna Rain slip 
through for an easy win.
Gary seemed to forget about his very public prayer when after the race 
he was heard to say-
?I don?t mean to skite but as soon as I saw that horse I ???..?
May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you are dead.
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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Sun Jul 26 12:11:41 2020
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 12:11:41 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Gary Harley's Prayer
In-Reply-To: <1ab32d87.f5957.173888b89ff.Webtop.96@bigpond.com>
References: <1ab32d87.f5957.173888b89ff.Webtop.96@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b2ZpNfE9cL9ygqD_3gALxEdGYmb9yjQkBM1bhzFiqGZBg@mail.gmail.com>

Ha ha. Or getting tomorrow's papers a day early would do.

On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 at 10:35, mickbarry mickbarry <mickbarry at bigpond.com>
wrote:

> While listening to Sky?s live ?Thoroughbred Central? coverage of Wyong
> races during the week, co-presenter Gary Harley was heard to plead after a
> particularly lean day on the tip -
> ?Please God help me to pick the winner of the last?.
> Wow I thought, never have I heard that before on a racing program.
> Well it worked.
> Whilst the horses were parading Gary must have had a vision.
> He then changed his original tip to that of Vienna Rain.
> The angels must also have been listening as the horse was heavily backed
> in to start favourite.
> Into the home straight the leader left the fence to let Vienna Rain slip
> through for an easy win.
> Gary seemed to forget about his very public prayer when after the race he
> was heard to say-
> ?I don?t mean to skite but as soon as I saw that horse I ???..?
> May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you are dead.
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From i8work at aussiebb.com.au  Sun Jul 26 23:21:19 2020
From: i8work at aussiebb.com.au (i8work at aussiebb.com.au)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2020 23:21:19 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Gary Harley's Prayer
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b2ZpNfE9cL9ygqD_3gALxEdGYmb9yjQkBM1bhzFiqGZBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1ab32d87.f5957.173888b89ff.Webtop.96@bigpond.com>
	<CAJfP4b2ZpNfE9cL9ygqD_3gALxEdGYmb9yjQkBM1bhzFiqGZBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1b2a12bb4595700f77bb32b8c7d596bf@aussiebb.com.au>

(nice post mickbarry mickbarry)

That paper thing happens to me every year....on Dec 24.


On 2020-07-26 12:11, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote:
> Ha ha. Or getting tomorrow's papers a day early would do.




> On Sun, 26 Jul 2020 at 10:35, mickbarry mickbarry
> <mickbarry at bigpond.com> wrote:
> 
>> While listening to Sky?s live ?Thoroughbred Central? coverage
>> of Wyong races during the week, co-presenter Gary Harley was heard
>> to plead after a particularly lean day on the tip -



From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Mon Jul 27 11:09:16 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 09:09:16 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Wealth - a system
Message-ID: <000101d663b2$8cdb2930$a6917b90$@bigpond.com>

Burpengary - I have always enjoyed reading and saying this - I went to
school with Gary and he did that, loud too, almost to a point where you
imagined he would have torn or strained something internal when he did.
More importantly, Burpengary was the Post Office address for contact with a
system seller which perhaps should have warning bells ringing before you
sent your money away. Care of Post Office Burpengary doesn't appear, or
seem, like a legitimate business address at all. In fact, to me, it was
almost as if the seller did not want you to know who they were, where they
were. Further, and don't worry about your concerns, how you feel about them,
you had to send your money in two episodes to get the whole 'scheme' - pages
1 to 19 first after payment of $200 and provision of an addressed, reply
paid, stamped envelope then upon the final payment you got the remaining
pages and a display folder in which you placed your pages, the front piece,
and the introduction and welcome page. So, firstly they don't trust you, and
demonstrate this by hanging onto the crux of the 'scheme' until all the
money has been paid, and all you have is your mindset about them, and the
last payment secures you everything you need (or you are ever going to get).
Page 11 is missing in my copies, both of them, only one of which is in the
display folder, the other is stapled and there is reference to communication
sent to 'Care of/' asking for page 11 and I am unsure of the result,
although no page 11 is present. It's ok, somewhat, as postage was not
required after payment of the second instalment. The remaining papers and
the folder were sent, postage free, but not page 11 (it might be important).
There is no advertisement for this 'scheme'. It may be that your contact
details were piggybacked off another subscription, or system purchase, or
contact with another organization. On the welcome page, under the heading
'meet our staff, there is a photo of a horse, with a girl in the saddle (or
where the saddle would be, ordinarily) and the girl seems to be wearing
nothing, no clothing on the lower half although she has jockey colours,
goggles, cap and cap cloth. The colours are non-descript, red,  with a
yellow shoulder slash and yellow cuffs and a maltese cross on the front and
it's easy to spot, let me tell you, that cross, being out in front like
that. The buttons are prominent too, it may be a trot driver jacket also,
although the model is on a (race) horse. She is whipping herself.
Anyways, you got included in the mailout, advising you of this 'once in a
lifetime opportunity' because it has come to their notice that you are a
'discerning, erudite punter', (both of them mean 'good') and, yes, it is
costly, but that keeps the 'silly people' away. They ask if you backed the
winners of the Doomben Cup, Doomben 10000, Stradbroke and don't say they
did, and if they did, or didn't, did they use scheme for that. No, it's just
LOOK what the winners paid and there is a list of 23 prices purporting to be
winning dividends, but no names, dates, race names, just the prices.
Seriously, these people could give system sellers a bad name.
Two people may have paid up and waited for the postman and I have their
copies. I paid $4 for one, and got the other with a bulk buy of 7 systems
collection off Ebay, for $20, and I also had to pay postage!. 
(1)	Consider only winners on the course. Course and distance winners are
discarded. 
(2)	Consider runners who finished up to 5th last start within 29 days -
NOTE these can include the course/distance winners discarded under rule (1)
(3)	Senior riders only, no apprentice riders to be considered - runner
discarded.
(4)	Local (Queensland they mean) runners only
(5)	Only Queensland races are to be considered for inclusion.
That's it. That is the 'scheme' you paid for and waited for the postman,
twice.
There are nine other 'schemes' included. One line systems working off a
single aspect of form, last start within 7 days, top weight favorite, best
form runner in the first 6 runners, and others of this kind.

Cheers

Tony


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com




From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jul 27 14:55:24 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2020 14:55:24 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude
Message-ID: <000001d663d2$27428080$75c78180$@ozemail.com.au>


Peter V'landys alleges he was 'ambushed' on racehorse cruelty by the ABC


Racing NSW boss Peter V'landys alleges he repeatedly asked the ABC what
material the public broadcaster had showing racehorse cruelty but was "kept
in the dark" before an expose was aired on 730.

Derrick Krusche
<https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/journalists/derrick-krusche> , The Daily
Telegraph

Subscriber only

| 

July 27, 2020 11:56am

	
AAP0:57


Racing chief appalled by horse slaughter


Racing Australia chief executive Barry O'Farrell said he was "appalled" that
healthy Australian racehorses are being slaughtered but insisted it's up to
state govern...

Racing supremo Peter V'landys has accused the ABC of "ambushing" him during
an expose on alleged racehorse cruelty. 

The boss of Racing NSW is suing the public broadcaster for defamation over a
story last year on 730, which alleged hundreds of racehorses were being sent
to slaughterhouses in NSW and Queensland.

Barrister Bruce McClintock, SC, told the Federal Court on Monday the ABC had
refused to show Mr V'landys undercover videos of the facilities before his
interview - in which he said he had no knowledge of the practice taking
place in NSW - was intercut with the disturbing footage.

"It's a significant part of our case that the ABC ambushed my client," he
told the court.

"What they did was they interviewed him and he repeatedly asked in the
course of the interview, and this can be shown by the camera tapes, what
material they had showing the appalling treatment of racehorses.

"The journalist in question declined to show him that footage . so he was
completely in the dark.

"When they came to broadcast the segments of the interview they intercut
that footage with the footage of my client."

Mr V'landys lawyers allege the ABC did not disclose they had already
obtained the covert footage before he sat down with a journalist and
deprived him of a chance to explain his organisation has no sway over
Queensland, where the alleged mass killings were occurring.

Mr McClintock argued the 730 segment was deliberately cut to "make my client
look bad".

 

The segment sparked protests outside Royal Randwick racecourse after it
aired. Picture: Mark Metcalfe

"They showed my client, contrary to the fact, to be a liar and also contrary
to the fact, to have a callous disregard for the incidents of extraordinary
cruelty to racehorses which were being shown before during and after the
material with him," he said.

"It was an ambush, we rather think it was a deliberate ambush and that this
footage was deliberately cut in to make my client look bad.

 

 

V'Landys' lawyer argued that the interview was edited to make the Racing
chief "look bad". 

"He has a long history of working with the welfare of retired racehorses."

Barrister Clarissa Amato, acting on behalf of the ABC, questioned what
damages could be awarded to Mr V'Landys if he had never viewed the program
as he has previously said.

"Assuming it's accepted, as Mr V'landys seems to say in his outline, that he
has not in fact seen the program, he's never viewed it, the question becomes
are aggravated damages for hurt feelings available to an applicant who has
not viewed the matter complained of," she said.

But Mr McClintock said Mr V'Landys was well aware of the content of the
program and was thinking about showing him the footage for the first time
when he took to the witness box.

"Even though he hasn't seen the program, he's very well aware of what the
content was," he said.

"Things may change in relation to my client seeing the footage - I think it
would assist to see my client's reaction in the witness box . I suspect he
will show a degree of verisimilitude."

The matter will return to court at a later date.

 

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From robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com  Tue Jul 28 04:56:14 2020
From: robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com (Robbie Waterhouse)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 04:56:14 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] FW:  V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude
Message-ID: <089a01d66447$9a1ce990$ce56bcb0$@robbiewaterhouse.com>

 

I'm not sure McClintock's "V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude"
means what he means it to mean. I don't think, in the normal sense of the
phrase, a Court would approve of evidence only showing a "degree of
verisimilitude".

 

Rob W

 

From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com <mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com>
> On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Monday, 27 July 2020 2:55 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude

 


Peter V'landys alleges he was 'ambushed' on racehorse cruelty by the ABC


Racing NSW boss Peter V'landys alleges he repeatedly asked the ABC what
material the public broadcaster had showing racehorse cruelty but was "kept
in the dark" before an expose was aired on 730.

Derrick Krusche
<https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/journalists/derrick-krusche> , The Daily
Telegraph

Subscriber only

| 

July 27, 2020 11:56am

	
AAP0:57


Racing chief appalled by horse slaughter


Racing Australia chief executive Barry O'Farrell said he was "appalled" that
healthy Australian racehorses are being slaughtered but insisted it's up to
state govern...

Racing supremo Peter V'landys has accused the ABC of "ambushing" him during
an expose on alleged racehorse cruelty. 

The boss of Racing NSW is suing the public broadcaster for defamation over a
story last year on 730, which alleged hundreds of racehorses were being sent
to slaughterhouses in NSW and Queensland.

Barrister Bruce McClintock, SC, told the Federal Court on Monday the ABC had
refused to show Mr V'landys undercover videos of the facilities before his
interview - in which he said he had no knowledge of the practice taking
place in NSW - was intercut with the disturbing footage.

"It's a significant part of our case that the ABC ambushed my client," he
told the court.

"What they did was they interviewed him and he repeatedly asked in the
course of the interview, and this can be shown by the camera tapes, what
material they had showing the appalling treatment of racehorses.

"The journalist in question declined to show him that footage . so he was
completely in the dark.

"When they came to broadcast the segments of the interview they intercut
that footage with the footage of my client."

Mr V'landys lawyers allege the ABC did not disclose they had already
obtained the covert footage before he sat down with a journalist and
deprived him of a chance to explain his organisation has no sway over
Queensland, where the alleged mass killings were occurring.

Mr McClintock argued the 730 segment was deliberately cut to "make my client
look bad".

 

The segment sparked protests outside Royal Randwick racecourse after it
aired. Picture: Mark Metcalfe

"They showed my client, contrary to the fact, to be a liar and also contrary
to the fact, to have a callous disregard for the incidents of extraordinary
cruelty to racehorses which were being shown before during and after the
material with him," he said.

"It was an ambush, we rather think it was a deliberate ambush and that this
footage was deliberately cut in to make my client look bad.

 

 

V'Landys' lawyer argued that the interview was edited to make the Racing
chief "look bad". 

"He has a long history of working with the welfare of retired racehorses."

Barrister Clarissa Amato, acting on behalf of the ABC, questioned what
damages could be awarded to Mr V'Landys if he had never viewed the program
as he has previously said.

"Assuming it's accepted, as Mr V'landys seems to say in his outline, that he
has not in fact seen the program, he's never viewed it, the question becomes
are aggravated damages for hurt feelings available to an applicant who has
not viewed the matter complained of," she said.

But Mr McClintock said Mr V'Landys was well aware of the content of the
program and was thinking about showing him the footage for the first time
when he took to the witness box.

"Even though he hasn't seen the program, he's very well aware of what the
content was," he said.

"Things may change in relation to my client seeing the footage - I think it
would assist to see my client's reaction in the witness box . I suspect he
will show a degree of verisimilitude."

The matter will return to court at a later date.

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Jul 28 06:33:10 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2020 06:33:10 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] FW:  V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude
In-Reply-To: <089a01d66447$9a1ce990$ce56bcb0$@robbiewaterhouse.com>
References: <089a01d66447$9a1ce990$ce56bcb0$@robbiewaterhouse.com>
Message-ID: <002901d66455$25fc2e50$71f48af0$@ozemail.com.au>

McClintock's use of " verisimilitude" somewhat flummoxed me, which is why I
highlighted it as the Subject.

 

I don't think, in the normal sense of the phrase, a Court would approve of
evidence only showing a "degree of verisimilitude".

 

I hope not!

 

LBL

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Robbie Waterhouse
Sent: Tuesday, 28 July 2020 4:56 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] FW: V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude

 

 

I'm not sure McClintock's "V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude"
means what he means it to mean. I don't think, in the normal sense of the
phrase, a Court would approve of evidence only showing a "degree of
verisimilitude".

 

Rob W

 

From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com <mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com>
> On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Monday, 27 July 2020 2:55 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] V'landys will show a degree of verisimilitude

 


Peter V'landys alleges he was 'ambushed' on racehorse cruelty by the ABC


Racing NSW boss Peter V'landys alleges he repeatedly asked the ABC what
material the public broadcaster had showing racehorse cruelty but was "kept
in the dark" before an expose was aired on 730.

Derrick Krusche
<https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/journalists/derrick-krusche> , The Daily
Telegraph

Subscriber only

| 

July 27, 2020 11:56am

	
AAP0:57


Racing chief appalled by horse slaughter


Racing Australia chief executive Barry O'Farrell said he was "appalled" that
healthy Australian racehorses are being slaughtered but insisted it's up to
state govern...

Racing supremo Peter V'landys has accused the ABC of "ambushing" him during
an expose on alleged racehorse cruelty. 

The boss of Racing NSW is suing the public broadcaster for defamation over a
story last year on 730, which alleged hundreds of racehorses were being sent
to slaughterhouses in NSW and Queensland.

Barrister Bruce McClintock, SC, told the Federal Court on Monday the ABC had
refused to show Mr V'landys undercover videos of the facilities before his
interview - in which he said he had no knowledge of the practice taking
place in NSW - was intercut with the disturbing footage.

"It's a significant part of our case that the ABC ambushed my client," he
told the court.

"What they did was they interviewed him and he repeatedly asked in the
course of the interview, and this can be shown by the camera tapes, what
material they had showing the appalling treatment of racehorses.

"The journalist in question declined to show him that footage . so he was
completely in the dark.

"When they came to broadcast the segments of the interview they intercut
that footage with the footage of my client."

Mr V'landys lawyers allege the ABC did not disclose they had already
obtained the covert footage before he sat down with a journalist and
deprived him of a chance to explain his organisation has no sway over
Queensland, where the alleged mass killings were occurring.

Mr McClintock argued the 730 segment was deliberately cut to "make my client
look bad".

 

The segment sparked protests outside Royal Randwick racecourse after it
aired. Picture: Mark Metcalfe

"They showed my client, contrary to the fact, to be a liar and also contrary
to the fact, to have a callous disregard for the incidents of extraordinary
cruelty to racehorses which were being shown before during and after the
material with him," he said.

"It was an ambush, we rather think it was a deliberate ambush and that this
footage was deliberately cut in to make my client look bad.

 

 

V'Landys' lawyer argued that the interview was edited to make the Racing
chief "look bad". 

"He has a long history of working with the welfare of retired racehorses."

Barrister Clarissa Amato, acting on behalf of the ABC, questioned what
damages could be awarded to Mr V'Landys if he had never viewed the program
as he has previously said.

"Assuming it's accepted, as Mr V'landys seems to say in his outline, that he
has not in fact seen the program, he's never viewed it, the question becomes
are aggravated damages for hurt feelings available to an applicant who has
not viewed the matter complained of," she said.

But Mr McClintock said Mr V'Landys was well aware of the content of the
program and was thinking about showing him the footage for the first time
when he took to the witness box.

"Even though he hasn't seen the program, he's very well aware of what the
content was," he said.

"Things may change in relation to my client seeing the footage - I think it
would assist to see my client's reaction in the witness box . I suspect he
will show a degree of verisimilitude."

The matter will return to court at a later date.

 

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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Fri Jul 31 18:15:55 2020
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 16:15:55 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Crafty Cruiser - is that it?
Message-ID: <000401d66712$d092c440$71b84cc0$@bigpond.com>

I hope so - after 157 starts and a million and a bit. He is 12 tomorrow and
that excludes him from running  (I think). He was entered to day but
scratched, and had been scratched a couple of times also.

I backed him in a listed handicap (Ansett?) at Mornington and he won and
paid well but that seems like two utes ago now. He has always paid well it
seems and recently has been running off at $41+.

As I said, I hope so. 

Cheers

Tony


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 21:46:50 2020
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:46:50 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Crafty Cruiser - is that it?
In-Reply-To: <000401d66712$d092c440$71b84cc0$@bigpond.com>
References: <000401d66712$d092c440$71b84cc0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b0f=GCWxcGqMwRXbGOHWkXbxNohdm=OS0NWTYnGnSLYDw@mail.gmail.com>

Five years ago he won at Flemington at about 25/1. I was casually perusing
the Racing & Sports Workpages and noticed he came out on top, using their
ratings etc . Went out to dinner on the Friday night, drank far too much
and spent the next day in the foetal position. Woke up late in the day to
discover said Crafty had landed and I'd missed the damned race. Juvenile I
know but always kept one eye on him after that. Needless to say, I don't
think the opportunity ever arrived again.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:16, Tony Moffat <tonymoffat at bigpond.com> wrote:

> I hope so - after 157 starts and a million and a bit. He is 12 tomorrow and
> that excludes him from running  (I think). He was entered to day but
> scratched, and had been scratched a couple of times also.
>
> I backed him in a listed handicap (Ansett?) at Mornington and he won and
> paid well but that seems like two utes ago now. He has always paid well it
> seems and recently has been running off at $41+.
>
> As I said, I hope so.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tony
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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