From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Jan 7 07:23:46 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2020 07:23:46 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Libya Message-ID: <001501d5c4cf$352d4010$9f87c030$@ozemail.com.au> Terrorists steal John Singleton-bred stallion in bloody Libya raid Terrorists have stolen a prized stallion bred by John Singleton, taken several others and shot two horses during a terrifying armed raid on a stud farm. Shayne O'Cass, Exclusive, The Daily Telegraph Subscriber only | January 6, 2020 2:45pm A prized horse bred by John Singleton who went on to become a Magic Millions sale topper was stolen in a bloody raid by armed terrorists in Libya at the weekend. Churchill Downs, who finished third to Miss Finland in the 2006 Golden Slipper, was among six stallions and 12 in-foal mares taken at gunpoint during a bloody 14-hour ordeal on Saturday evening from the nation's premier thoroughbred farm, Al Shaab Stud. Grave fears are held for the son of Danehill, whose adopted home has been caught in the middle of an increasingly violent civil conflict in Libya for months. Churchill Downs was born and bred in Australia before being sent to Libya in 2012. Churchill Downs was exported to the Middle East in 2012 to help build up Libya's fledgling breeding stocks, having previously stood at stud in Victoria. Five other stallions were also stolen from Al Shaab Stud including Brut Force, a son of 1999 Melbourne Cup runner-up Champagne, Backdraft, the former Gai Waterhouse-trained son of Testa Rossa, and Eavesdropper, who stood at Emirates Park Stud in the upper Hunter Valley. "At six o'clock (Saturday), an armed group came from the Tarhuna city militia loyal to Haftar,'' Al Shaab Stud owner Dr Amad Ashaab told The Daily Telegraph via email. "They broke into the stable and stole all the veterinary devices, furniture, offices, generator, jars and water pumps. "They stole the 12 in-foal mares that are about to give birth this January and February. Then they entered the stallion of stallions and stole 6 stallions: Churchill Downs, Brut Force, Backdraft, Eavesdropper, Raise A Grand and Metternich." John Singleton (right) with Gerry Harvey at Royal Randwick. Picture: Chris Pavlich Dr Ashaab founded Al Shaab Stud and has been the driving force behind efforts to build and maintain a thriving thoroughbred industry in Libya. He regularly attended sales on the Gold Coast to acquire horses to take back to his farm near Tripoli. He has pleaded for international help to rescue the prized thoroughbreds. "They shot two horses and were wounded in the hind legs so that no one could provide the ambulance to help the horse with euthanasia," Dr Ashaab said. "We appeal to all humanitarian organisations and all horse organisations to save the horses of Libya." Churchill Downs with David Hayes' former stable forewoman Lizzie Jelfs. Singleton sold Churchill Downs at the 2005 Magic Millions Yearling Sale on the Gold Coast fetching top price of $950,000. Trained by David Hayes, Churchill Downs finished second in the Magic Millions 2YO Classic and third in the Golden Slipper with Darren Beadman in the saddle. Churchill Downs' kidnapping has evoked memories of British champion Shergar, who was believed to have been kidnapped by the IRA in 1983. His owner, the Aga Khan's stud farm in Ireland, was sent a 2 million pound ransom demand but, after four days of negotiations, talks abruptly ended and the horse was never seen again. Shergar's body was never found. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 27921 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 84475 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image009.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 86370 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image010.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 87653 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Jan 28 07:30:58 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 07:30:58 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Beware of betting SP/TF Message-ID: <001f01d5d550$b0e44eb0$12acec10$@ozemail.com.au> Just 2 of multiple examples from yesterday: Yesterday's final Dynamic Odds display for Sandown 1 - prices the same as in download: It is very important now that SP/SOP is determined from DO data that it be accurate, particularly for those who bet at SP/TF. I can't see how the winner #9 reasonably gets an SP of 4.6 (my attention was drawn to this race by an extraordinary high SP market % of 130 for a Metro Melbourne meeting while the Best Odds% is just 96.6%) Similarly the 4th horse #2 and its SP of 8.50. Hanging Rock #2 (SP market% 134 compared to 102.5 Best Odds): I cannot see how the 2nd horse, #10 gets an SP of 7.00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 158149 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 123136 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanmac4321 at gmail.com Tue Jan 28 08:04:41 2020 From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 07:04:41 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Beware of betting SP/TF In-Reply-To: <001f01d5d550$b0e44eb0$12acec10$@ozemail.com.au> References: <001f01d5d550$b0e44eb0$12acec10$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Len, well picked up. Can I add, as usual. lol. Thanks Sean On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 6:32 AM L.B.Loveday wrote: > Just 2 of multiple examples from yesterday: > > > > > > Yesterday's final Dynamic Odds display for Sandown 1 - prices the same as > in download: > > > > > > It is very important now that SP/SOP is determined from DO data that it be > accurate, particularly for those who bet at SP/TF. > > > > I can't see how the winner #9 reasonably gets an SP of 4.6 (my attention > was drawn to this race by an extraordinary high SP market % of 130 for a > Metro Melbourne meeting while the Best Odds% is just 96.6%) > > > > Similarly the 4th horse #2 and its SP of 8.50. > > > > Hanging Rock #2 (SP market% 134 compared to 102.5 Best Odds): > > > > > > I cannot see how the 2nd horse, #10 gets an SP of 7.00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 158149 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 123136 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Jan 28 09:55:26 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 09:55:26 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Beware of betting SP/TF In-Reply-To: References: <001f01d5d550$b0e44eb0$12acec10$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <004a01d5d564$e0033490$a0099db0$@ozemail.com.au> Scott from DO is excellent at responding, a beacon of helpfulness in a sea of ignorance/waffle/evasion and here's his reply: ***************** Yesterday, unfortunately, we experienced a technical issues that effected the price display of corporate agencies,? hence the variance in prices displayed for runners in your examples below. The issue effected the markets of the early races yesterday, with regular service being restored at approximately 2.15pm (AEDT). Apologies for any inconvenience. To confirm, the Official Price, and fluctuation, were not effected and correct. I accept the problem with technical issues, of which there have been, imo, too many lately, but 130% is the highest SP market% since August 2016, when the VOP based on DO was introduced, and It's not good enough while bookmakers are offering SP/TF. LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of sean mclaren Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 8:05 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Beware of betting SP/TF Len, well picked up. Can I add, as usual. lol. Thanks Sean On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 6:32 AM L.B.Loveday > wrote: Just 2 of multiple examples from yesterday: Yesterday's final Dynamic Odds display for Sandown 1 - prices the same as in download: It is very important now that SP/SOP is determined from DO data that it be accurate, particularly for those who bet at SP/TF. I can't see how the winner #9 reasonably gets an SP of 4.6 (my attention was drawn to this race by an extraordinary high SP market % of 130 for a Metro Melbourne meeting while the Best Odds% is just 96.6%) Similarly the 4th horse #2 and its SP of 8.50. Hanging Rock #2 (SP market% 134 compared to 102.5 Best Odds): I cannot see how the 2nd horse, #10 gets an SP of 7.00 _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 31105 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17492 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 123136 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.png Type: image/png Size: 158149 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikemcbain at tpg.com.au Tue Jan 28 17:00:13 2020 From: mikemcbain at tpg.com.au (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 17:00:13 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Betmakers & Tom Waterhouse Message-ID: <000f01d5d5a0$34f717b0$9ee54710$@tpg.com.au> Details of the new association between Betmakers & Tom Waterhouse here. https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200128/pdf/44dk0bpcgn03nv.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Tue Jan 28 17:44:31 2020 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 17:44:31 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Betmakers & Tom Waterhouse In-Reply-To: <000f01d5d5a0$34f717b0$9ee54710$@tpg.com.au> References: <000f01d5d5a0$34f717b0$9ee54710$@tpg.com.au> Message-ID: 80,000 members? On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 at 17:00, wrote: > Details of the new association between Betmakers & Tom Waterhouse here? > > > > https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200128/pdf/44dk0bpcgn03nv.pdf > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Jan 28 19:10:10 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 19:10:10 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Betmakers & Tom Waterhouse In-Reply-To: References: <000f01d5d5a0$34f717b0$9ee54710$@tpg.com.au> Message-ID: <000001d5d5b2$5e612f20$1b238d60$@ozemail.com.au> The "> 250,000 races per year" had me looking twice, but sure enough, Dynamic Odds enabled betting on 24,632 races (across 3 codes) in December. I have enough difficulty handling the 96 Oz galloping races last Sat (out of 1,068 available on DO). From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, 28 January 2020 17:45 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Betmakers & Tom Waterhouse 80,000 members? On Tue, 28 Jan 2020 at 17:00, > wrote: Details of the new association between Betmakers & Tom Waterhouse here? https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200128/pdf/44dk0bpcgn03nv.pdf _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Jan 29 11:38:01 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 11:38:01 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Gawler #1 Message-ID: <000f01d5d63c$5e570240$1b0506c0$@ozemail.com.au> Prior to the scratching of #2 yesterday, Sportsbetting was betting 2.85 #3. 28+56=84c deduction, meaning a theoretical return of 45.6c in the dollar if #3 wins. RobW previously posted: >From Australian Rules of Racing, Rules of Betting (8) Further provided that, except in the case of a dead heat, no order must be made the effect of which would oblige a backer to receive less than his or her stake. So it looks to me that the best a person who took 2,85 can do is get his stake back, but only if #3 wins. Does not seem fair. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 52345 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Jan 29 11:45:05 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 11:45:05 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Gawler #1 Message-ID: <002801d5d63d$5b85eb70$1291c250$@ozemail.com.au> From: L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:38 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Gawler #1 Prior to the scratching of #2 yesterday, Sportsbetting was betting 2.85 #3. 28+56=84c deduction, meaning a theoretical return of 45.6c in the dollar if #3 wins. RobW previously posted: >From Australian Rules of Racing, Rules of Betting (8) Further provided that, except in the case of a dead heat, no order must be made the effect of which would oblige a backer to receive less than his or her stake. So it looks to me that the best a person who took 2.85 can do is get his stake back, but only if #3 wins. Does not seem fair. And what to make of Betfair? 145% deductions? Or maybe I don't understand BF's deductions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 52345 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 28713 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Jan 29 14:34:36 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 14:34:36 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] How incompetent is TAB-Qld? Message-ID: <003801d5d655$0a994a00$1fcbde00$@ozemail.com.au> TAB-Qld have not yet realised NSW has daylight-savings, and that it's been in effect since 6/10/2019, or know and can't do simple sums, or something - God only knows what goes through their brains: At 14:25 (NSW), there is 1h40 to the Quadrella, 30m to the Extra Double (not even -30 alerts the whiz kids), the treble is at 15:40 Qld (16:40 NSW)????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 110328 bytes Desc: not available URL: From robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com Wed Jan 29 17:02:32 2020 From: robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com (Robbie Waterhouse) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 17:02:32 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] FW: Gawler #1 References: <002801d5d63d$5b85eb70$1291c250$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <006301d5d669$b2777120$17665360$@robbiewaterhouse.com> Rule 2 of Betting used to be, along the lines, ?if you can?t win, you can?t lose.? That rule now is: ?BR 5.In all bets there must be a possibility of winning when the bet is made.? Not quite the same. Rob W From: Racing > On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:45 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: [AusRace] Gawler #1 From: L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:38 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: Gawler #1 Prior to the scratching of #2 yesterday, Sportsbetting was betting 2.85 #3. 28+56=84c deduction, meaning a theoretical return of 45.6c in the dollar if #3 wins. RobW previously posted: >From Australian Rules of Racing, Rules of Betting (8) Further provided that, except in the case of a dead heat, no order must be made the effect of which would oblige a backer to receive less than his or her stake. So it looks to me that the best a person who took 2.85 can do is get his stake back, but only if #3 wins. Does not seem fair. And what to make of Betfair? 145% deductions? Or maybe I don't understand BF's deductions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 52345 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 28713 bytes Desc: not available URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Wed Jan 29 17:14:25 2020 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 17:14:25 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] FW: Gawler #1 In-Reply-To: <006301d5d669$b2777120$17665360$@robbiewaterhouse.com> References: <002801d5d63d$5b85eb70$1291c250$@ozemail.com.au> <006301d5d669$b2777120$17665360$@robbiewaterhouse.com> Message-ID: Hello Rob, What's happened with your weekly blog? It used to be required reading. On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 at 17:03, Robbie Waterhouse wrote: > Rule 2 of Betting used to be, along the lines, ?if you can?t win, you > can?t lose.? > > > > That rule now is: ?BR 5.In all bets there must be a possibility of > winning *when the bet is made*.? > > > > Not quite the same. > > > > Rob W > > > > *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of *L.B.Loveday > *Sent:* Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:45 AM > *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > *Subject:* [AusRace] Gawler #1 > > > > > > > > *From:* L.B.Loveday > *Sent:* Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:38 AM > *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > *Subject:* Gawler #1 > > > > Prior to the scratching of #2 yesterday, Sportsbetting was betting 2.85 #3. > > > > 28+56=84c deduction, meaning a theoretical return of 45.6c in the dollar > if #3 wins. RobW previously posted: > > > > From Australian Rules of Racing, Rules of Betting > > > > (8) Further provided that, except in the case of a dead heat, no order > must be made the effect of which would oblige a backer to receive less than > his or her stake. > > > > So it looks to me that the best a person who took 2.85 can do is get his > stake back, but only if #3 wins. Does not seem fair. > > > > > > > > And what to make of Betfair? 145% deductions? Or maybe I don't understand > BF's deductions. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 52345 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 28713 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Thu Jan 30 09:58:41 2020 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2020 09:58:41 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] FW: Gawler #1 In-Reply-To: <006301d5d669$b2777120$17665360$@robbiewaterhouse.com> References: <002801d5d63d$5b85eb70$1291c250$@ozemail.com.au> <006301d5d669$b2777120$17665360$@robbiewaterhouse.com> Message-ID: <000501d5d6f7$a91d3ef0$fb57bcd0$@ozemail.com.au> Thus, before the scratchings, Sportsbetting (I'm not signalling them out - at least they display deductions unlike some others) had: #3 2.85 #4 19.8 #5 83.0 and after scratchings someone betting before the scratchings would receive: #3 0.456 (SP 1.16) #4 3.168 (SP 5.50) #5 13.28 (SP 16.0) and someone who put $1000 on at 2.85 would receive $456 if it won (it didn't, bugger). Not quite the same. INDEED! Unfair by any rational standard - the only person I can think of who would think it ok is Anastasious Koutsantonis, the moron who gave us the POC tax. LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of Robbie Waterhouse Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2020 17:03 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] FW: Gawler #1 Rule 2 of Betting used to be, along the lines, ?if you can?t win, you can?t lose.? That rule now is: ?BR 5.In all bets there must be a possibility of winning when the bet is made.? Not quite the same. Rob W From: Racing > On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:45 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: [AusRace] Gawler #1 From: L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:38 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: Gawler #1 Prior to the scratching of #2 yesterday, Sportsbetting was betting 2.85 #3. 28+56=84c deduction, meaning a theoretical return of 45.6c in the dollar if #3 wins. RobW previously posted: >From Australian Rules of Racing, Rules of Betting (8) Further provided that, except in the case of a dead heat, no order must be made the effect of which would oblige a backer to receive less than his or her stake. So it looks to me that the best a person who took 2.85 can do is get his stake back, but only if #3 wins. Does not seem fair. And what to make of Betfair? 145% deductions? Or maybe I don't understand BF's deductions. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 52345 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 28713 bytes Desc: not available URL: