From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sat Feb  8 10:46:50 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2020 10:46:50 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
Message-ID: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From conceptracing at bigpond.com  Sun Feb  9 10:15:20 2020
From: conceptracing at bigpond.com (Ken Blake)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 07:15:20 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>

Len,

            Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
deductions race 2 Pinjarra

 

        Bookie   Betfair

 

1.       3.4       5.24

2.       3.4       4.19

3.       1.76     2.25

4.       SCR

5.       1.56     1.9

6.       2.4       2.14

7.       3.75     6.0

  

(commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price

 

But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.

 

Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.

 

Ken

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sun Feb  9 13:58:38 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2020 13:58:38 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>
	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <000001d5def4$d6182230$82486690$@ozemail.com.au>

" Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves".

 

Come on Ken, how can it be hard to understand that some people need to win
to make a living, and that some chose to do that by betting with "Corporate
thieves" or anyone else prepared to lose? 

 

25 minutes before the first of 54 Australian thoroughbred races today, the
BF "matched" [sic] total for the Place on all 54 races is $796, just $15
average per race, and bet/lay markets typically 400/200%, one even 700/166%.

 

To take an anomaly on a short-priced deduction, which I pointed out and is a
rare occurrence (but non-the-less should be rectified), to "prove" a point
and then extrapolate to  " But as usual across the board BF prices far
superior" by comparing the  9:38 prices after deductions with final BFSP
prices at 15:18 without a skerrick of evidence of what is "as usual",  ...
wordless. If you mean that the final BFSP is usually greater than the
after-deduction price paid by fixed-price bookies, of course that would be
so in these small numbers of occasions because of the unfairness of
deductions on short-priced horses; I thought DomB etal had fixed that, but
it does not seem so to me.

 

Here is a summary of Hobart Race 1 - 

 


tabno

	MBL

Final

	$648 

$1,234 

$1,553 

$1,724 

$2,119 

$3,805 

<<<<<Place "Matched" [sic]

Real BFSP

Bet Price

Amount

					
5 min

3 min

2 min

1 min

Start Time

Final

	6% commission

Race Time

available!!!!


1

	18.00 

21.00 

	31.00 

25.00 

17.00 

16.30 

27.50 

19.50 

<<<< BFSP

18.39 

18.00 

16.00 


2

	19.00 

21.00 

	27.80 

28.00 

30.00 

29.30 

34.50 

38.90 

	36.63 

16.00 

8.00 


3

1st

1.96 

3.50 

	3.15 

3.30 

3.25 

3.35 

3.75 

3.70 

	3.54 

3.65 

31.00 


4

2nd

1.57 

1.44 

	1.52 

1.30 

1.49 

1.46 

1.50 

1.51 

	1.48 

1.51 

13.00 


5

	1.91 

2.00 

	1.82 

1.97 

2.07 

2.06 

2.34 

2.38 

	2.30 

2.34 

32.00 


6

	14.00 

19.00 

	22.50 

22.80 

24.50 

24.50 

38.00 

30.00 

	28.26 

19.00 

23.00 


7

	5.00 

4.20 

	4.90 

4.90 

4.90 

5.00 

3.84 

4.88 

	4.65 

3.95 

16.00 


8

	3.20 

3.00 

	2.53 

2.79 

2.90 

2.75 

2.74 

2.76 

	2.65 

2.84 

5.00 


9

	3.90 

2.30 

	3.40 

3.38 

2.89 

2.72 

2.71 

2.62 

	2.52 

2.52 

38.00 


10

	7.00 

13.00 

	20.00 

20.00 

21.50 

21.30 

18.00 

18.50 

	17.45 

18.00 

14.00 


12

	8.50 

9.00 

	12.40 

10.60 

10.70 

9.90 

10.50 

8.60 

	8.14 

8.40 

8.00 


13

	21.00 

21.00 

	24.00 

23.00 

20.30 

20.30 

28.50 

30.50 

	28.73 

19.00 

8.00 


14

3rd

2.05 

2.35 

	2.43 

2.50 

2.54 

2.75 

2.74 

2.83 

	2.72 

2.74 

??.??

		
342%

330%

	311%

315%

307%

310%

300%

297%

	308%

313%

	

 

We know that liquidity is woeful - maximum amount that could be bet at
offered price at race-time is $38 (max you could get set for is $414, the
one case where it is >MBL), and final amount "Matched" [sic] just $3805. No
indication is given as to how much money is available for BFSP - what would
the BFSP have been on the fav #4 if someone had put $1,000 on at race time?
If you'd taken it at fixed price MBL time, you know you'd have got 1.57.

 

I chose this race to collect because it was the first for the day, and as it
turns out, the 1st and 3rd horses blew like the proverbial wind, so ended up
better on BFSP, but again I stress we have no idea what the liquidity is or
who audits the computation of final BFSP (who believes the 297%?). Why are
the final BFSP's wiped as soon as the race starts, and as far as I can find
out, are not available other than those of placing horses, so I have no way
of evaluating Ken's claim that " But as usual across the board BF prices far
superior" and unless I have access to source data, I believe nothing (nor
disbelieve anything).

 

LBL

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Len,

            Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
deductions race 2 Pinjarra

 

        Bookie   Betfair

 

1.	3.4       5.24
2.	3.4       4.19
3.	1.76     2.25
4.	SCR
5.	1.56     1.9
6.	2.4       2.14
7.	3.75     6.0

  

(commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price

 

But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.

 

Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.

 

Ken

 

 

 

From: Racing [ <mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com>
mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < <mailto:racing at ausrace.com>
racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Fri Feb 14 13:29:36 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:29:36 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>
	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>

Ken, 

 

Maybe these bets this morning will help the getting of your head around:

 

Scone 7/2     31/5.5

Scone 7/10   15/3.4

 

Do you think BF SP prices will be better?

 

By the way, do you think the BF SP prices are fairly determined? Not
influenced by ZR's or other's position? Not inflated on those with no, or
little, money bet to give a false impression?

 

As I write, declared BF SP markets for the last 12 races anywhere are:

 

97.1 

99.3

102.3

97.6

93.3

99.8

104.2

100.0

98.6

102.9

98.7

98.7

 

So, under 100% average, cf last available bet price markets of 102-108%. I
smell a rat.

 

 

Pub time for me.

 

 

LBL

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Len,

            Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
deductions race 2 Pinjarra

 

        Bookie   Betfair

 

1.	3.4       5.24
2.	3.4       4.19
3.	1.76     2.25
4.	SCR
5.	1.56     1.9
6.	2.4       2.14
7.	3.75     6.0

  

(commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price

 

But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.

 

Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.

 

Ken

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From seanmac4321 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 14 14:01:06 2020
From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 13:01:06 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>
	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
	<003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAOBDE-SsV45TTx9F68KVFmW63waZGnK4ckfppNwB+0cH4u8A2g@mail.gmail.com>

how come you get to go to the pub ..... what a life.lol.

just kidding. trust you are well Len

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 12:30 PM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

> Ken,
>
>
>
> Maybe these bets this morning will help the getting of your head around:
>
>
>
> Scone 7/2     31/5.5
>
> Scone 7/10   15/3.4
>
>
>
> Do you think BF SP prices will be better?
>
>
>
> By the way, do you think the BF SP prices are fairly determined? Not
> influenced by ZR's or other's position? Not inflated on those with no, or
> little, money bet to give a false impression?
>
>
>
> As I write, declared BF SP markets for the last 12 races anywhere are:
>
>
>
> 97.1
>
> 99.3
>
> 102.3
>
> 97.6
>
> 93.3
>
> 99.8
>
> 104.2
>
> 100.0
>
> 98.6
>
> 102.9
>
> 98.7
>
> 98.7
>
>
>
> So, under 100% average, cf last available bet price markets of 102-108%. I
> smell a rat.
>
>
>
>
>
> Pub time for me.
>
>
>
>
>
> LBL
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of *Ken Blake
> *Sent:* Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
>
>
>
> Len,
>
>             Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
> deductions race 2 Pinjarra
>
>
>
>         Bookie   Betfair
>
>
>
>    1. 3.4       5.24
>    2. 3.4       4.19
>    3. 1.76     2.25
>    4. SCR
>    5. 1.56     1.9
>    6. 2.4       2.14
>    7. 3.75     6.0
>
>
>
> (commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price
>
>
>
> But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.
>
>
>
> Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com
> <racing-bounces at ausrace.com>] *On Behalf Of *L.B.Loveday
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
>
>
>
> Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty
> well across the board.
>
> Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.
>
> Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.
>
>
>
> BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
> the deduction.
>
> Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.
>
> How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
> payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?
>
>
>
> Original
>
> After 37%
>
> New Place
>
> TAB
>
> Place Price
>
> Deduction
>
> Price
>
> 1
>
> 5.90
>
> 3.72
>
> 3.40
>
> 2
>
> 6.10
>
> 3.84
>
> 3.40
>
> 3
>
> 2.55
>
> 1.61
>
> 1.76
>
> 4
>
> 1.29
>
> 5
>
> 1.92
>
> 1.21
>
> 1.56
>
> 6
>
> 3.65
>
> 2.30
>
> 2.40
>
> 7
>
> 6.10
>
> 3.84
>
> 3.75
>
> 246%
>
> 267%
>
> 248%
>
>
>
>
>
> LBL
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Fri Feb 14 23:44:05 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:44:05 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
	<003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <006801d5e334$7308f8b0$591aea10$@ozemail.com.au>

BF SP   Scone 7/2  16.0 (cf Fixed 31.0);  7/10 5.7 (cf Fixed 15.0)

 

They lost, but as I've proved, when limited to MBL, the price about losers
is paramount.

 

The winner, #9 was BF SP 6.35. Compare that to 41.0 with BetZero when I bet
(with #1 still in, say 32 after deduction, but I could not bet anyway, well
before 9am) and 34.0 with BetEasy and Neds, with #1 out of the market.

 

The BF SP at 6.35 was well short of the 6.60 available to bet on BF - both
subject to 10% commission. NOP/SP was 6.5, no commission of course, so 6.5
vs 6.35*.9 = 5.715!

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Friday, 14 February 2020 13:30 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Ken, 

 

Maybe these bets this morning will help the getting of your head around:

 

Scone 7/2     31/5.5

Scone 7/10   15/3.4

 

Do you think BF SP prices will be better?

 

By the way, do you think the BF SP prices are fairly determined? Not
influenced by ZR's or other's position? Not inflated on those with no, or
little, money bet to give a false impression?

 

As I write, declared BF SP markets for the last 12 races anywhere are:

 

97.1 

99.3

102.3

97.6

93.3

99.8

104.2

100.0

98.6

102.9

98.7

98.7

 

So, under 100% average, cf last available bet price markets of 102-108%. I
smell a rat.

 

 

Pub time for me.

 

 

LBL

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Len,

            Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
deductions race 2 Pinjarra

 

        Bookie   Betfair

 

1.	3.4       5.24
2.	3.4       4.19
3.	1.76     2.25
4.	SCR
5.	1.56     1.9
6.	2.4       2.14
7.	3.75     6.0

  

(commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price

 

But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.

 

Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.

 

Ken

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sat Feb 15 07:49:09 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 07:49:09 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <006801d5e334$7308f8b0$591aea10$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>	<003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
	<006801d5e334$7308f8b0$591aea10$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <007201d5e378$369edfe0$a3dc9fa0$@ozemail.com.au>

Today's challenge - compare these prices with BF:

 

Sapphire Coast 4/6   12.00/3.15 (missed 3.45 because they turned the place
down when I bet win).

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Friday, 14 February 2020 23:44 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

BF SP   Scone 7/2  16.0 (cf Fixed 31.0);  7/10 5.7 (cf Fixed 15.0)

 

They lost, but as I've proved, when limited to MBL, the price about losers
is paramount.

 

The winner, #9 was BF SP 6.35. Compare that to 41.0 with BetZero when I bet
(with #1 still in, say 32 after deduction, but I could not bet anyway, well
before 9am) and 34.0 with BetEasy and Neds, with #1 out of the market.

 

The BF SP at 6.35 was well short of the 6.60 available to bet on BF - both
subject to 10% commission. NOP/SP was 6.5, no commission of course, so 6.5
vs 6.35*.9 = 5.715!

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Friday, 14 February 2020 13:30 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Ken, 

 

Maybe these bets this morning will help the getting of your head around:

 

Scone 7/2     31/5.5

Scone 7/10   15/3.4

 

Do you think BF SP prices will be better?

 

By the way, do you think the BF SP prices are fairly determined? Not
influenced by ZR's or other's position? Not inflated on those with no, or
little, money bet to give a false impression?

 

As I write, declared BF SP markets for the last 12 races anywhere are:

 

97.1 

99.3

102.3

97.6

93.3

99.8

104.2

100.0

98.6

102.9

98.7

98.7

 

So, under 100% average, cf last available bet price markets of 102-108%. I
smell a rat.

 

 

Pub time for me.

 

 

LBL

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Len,

            Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
deductions race 2 Pinjarra

 

        Bookie   Betfair

 

1.	3.4       5.24
2.	3.4       4.19
3.	1.76     2.25
4.	SCR
5.	1.56     1.9
6.	2.4       2.14
7.	3.75     6.0

  

(commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price

 

But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.

 

Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.

 

Ken

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From seanmac4321 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 15 08:11:03 2020
From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 07:11:03 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <007201d5e378$369edfe0$a3dc9fa0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>
	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
	<003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
	<006801d5e334$7308f8b0$591aea10$@ozemail.com.au>
	<007201d5e378$369edfe0$a3dc9fa0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAOBDE-QuFYah4R2919G3AOvHAw-3LKPg_YdBRoaBp3KQH+VixA@mail.gmail.com>

Len i sent you a quick email ...... did u get?. Tah Sean.

On Sat, Feb 15, 2020 at 6:49 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> Today's challenge - compare these prices with BF:
>
>
>
> Sapphire Coast 4/6   12.00/3.15 (missed 3.45 because they turned the place
> down when I bet win).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of *L.B.Loveday
> *Sent:* Friday, 14 February 2020 23:44 PM
> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
>
>
>
> BF SP   Scone 7/2  16.0 (cf Fixed 31.0);  7/10 5.7 (cf Fixed 15.0)
>
>
>
> They lost, but as I've proved, when limited to MBL, the price about losers
> is paramount.
>
>
>
> The winner, #9 was BF SP 6.35. Compare that to 41.0 with BetZero when I
> bet (with #1 still in, say 32 after deduction, but I could not bet anyway,
> well before 9am) and 34.0 with BetEasy and Neds, with #1 out of the market.
>
>
>
> The BF SP at 6.35 was well short of the 6.60 available to bet on BF - both
> subject to 10% commission. NOP/SP was 6.5, no commission of course, so 6.5
> vs 6.35*.9 = 5.715!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of *L.B.Loveday
> *Sent:* Friday, 14 February 2020 13:30 PM
> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
>
>
>
> Ken,
>
>
>
> Maybe these bets this morning will help the getting of your head around:
>
>
>
> Scone 7/2     31/5.5
>
> Scone 7/10   15/3.4
>
>
>
> Do you think BF SP prices will be better?
>
>
>
> By the way, do you think the BF SP prices are fairly determined? Not
> influenced by ZR's or other's position? Not inflated on those with no, or
> little, money bet to give a false impression?
>
>
>
> As I write, declared BF SP markets for the last 12 races anywhere are:
>
>
>
> 97.1
>
> 99.3
>
> 102.3
>
> 97.6
>
> 93.3
>
> 99.8
>
> 104.2
>
> 100.0
>
> 98.6
>
> 102.9
>
> 98.7
>
> 98.7
>
>
>
> So, under 100% average, cf last available bet price markets of 102-108%. I
> smell a rat.
>
>
>
>
>
> Pub time for me.
>
>
>
>
>
> LBL
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of *Ken Blake
> *Sent:* Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
>
>
>
> Len,
>
>             Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
> deductions race 2 Pinjarra
>
>
>
>         Bookie   Betfair
>
>
>
>    1. 3.4       5.24
>    2. 3.4       4.19
>    3. 1.76     2.25
>    4. SCR
>    5. 1.56     1.9
>    6. 2.4       2.14
>    7. 3.75     6.0
>
>
>
> (commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price
>
>
>
> But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.
>
>
>
> Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.
>
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com
> <racing-bounces at ausrace.com>] *On Behalf Of *L.B.Loveday
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
>
>
>
> Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty
> well across the board.
>
> Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.
>
> Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.
>
>
>
> BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
> the deduction.
>
> Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.
>
> How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
> payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?
>
>
>
> Original
>
> After 37%
>
> New Place
>
> TAB
>
> Place Price
>
> Deduction
>
> Price
>
> 1
>
> 5.90
>
> 3.72
>
> 3.40
>
> 2
>
> 6.10
>
> 3.84
>
> 3.40
>
> 3
>
> 2.55
>
> 1.61
>
> 1.76
>
> 4
>
> 1.29
>
> 5
>
> 1.92
>
> 1.21
>
> 1.56
>
> 6
>
> 3.65
>
> 2.30
>
> 2.40
>
> 7
>
> 6.10
>
> 3.84
>
> 3.75
>
> 246%
>
> 267%
>
> 248%
>
>
>
>
>
> LBL
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From conceptracing at bigpond.com  Sat Feb 15 11:11:24 2020
From: conceptracing at bigpond.com (Ken Blake)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:11:24 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>
	<003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <000401d5e394$75df4890$619dd9b0$@bigpond.com>

Len,

         The point is, and you should know better than anyone, you can say
I'm getting better prices than Betfair, but if you are throttled back to $5
max bet then the whole exercise becomes futile.

 

Ken

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 10:30 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Ken, 

 

Maybe these bets this morning will help the getting of your head around:

 

Scone 7/2     31/5.5

Scone 7/10   15/3.4

 

Do you think BF SP prices will be better?

 

By the way, do you think the BF SP prices are fairly determined? Not
influenced by ZR's or other's position? Not inflated on those with no, or
little, money bet to give a false impression?

 

As I write, declared BF SP markets for the last 12 races anywhere are:

 

97.1 

99.3

102.3

97.6

93.3

99.8

104.2

100.0

98.6

102.9

98.7

98.7

 

So, under 100% average, cf last available bet price markets of 102-108%. I
smell a rat.

 

 

Pub time for me.

 

 

LBL

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Len,

            Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
deductions race 2 Pinjarra

 

        Bookie   Betfair

 

1.	3.4       5.24
2.	3.4       4.19
3.	1.76     2.25
4.	SCR
5.	1.56     1.9
6.	2.4       2.14
7.	3.75     6.0

  

(commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price

 

But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.

 

Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.

 

Ken

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sat Feb 15 13:28:58 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2020 13:28:58 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"
In-Reply-To: <000401d5e394$75df4890$619dd9b0$@bigpond.com>
References: <001d01d5de10$e04021c0$a0c06540$@ozemail.com.au>	<001501d5ded5$a2463c90$e6d2b5b0$@bigpond.com>	<003e01d5e2de$9c3e66d0$d4bb3470$@ozemail.com.au>
	<000401d5e394$75df4890$619dd9b0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <00ee01d5e3a7$b002e140$1008a3c0$@ozemail.com.au>

I don't get it - does BF throttle you back to $5 max? -  the MBL ensures
that can't happen in general with Fixed Price Bookmakers. B365 won't bet
even $5 on WA or NT, but rigidly stick to MBL, as do the others as far as I
know.

 

A plug for Sportbet - they bet MBL 24/7 all states, and have a minimum bet
of $25, so you can get $25 for the win at 501.0, whereas B365 and others
will only accept $2 Provincial, or $4 Metro.

 

There is all-but no business done on BF before 9am anyway.

 

32 Minutes to Randwick race 4, and there is $200 "Matched" [sic] place and
you can get set for $224 on the Fav @ 1.23!  And for the win, you can bet
all of $258 @ 2.00 (both less 10% commission). 

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Saturday, 15 February 2020 11:11 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Len,

         The point is, and you should know better than anyone, you can say
I'm getting better prices than Betfair, but if you are throttled back to $5
max bet then the whole exercise becomes futile.

 

Ken

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 10:30 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Ken, 

 

Maybe these bets this morning will help the getting of your head around:

 

Scone 7/2     31/5.5

Scone 7/10   15/3.4

 

Do you think BF SP prices will be better?

 

By the way, do you think the BF SP prices are fairly determined? Not
influenced by ZR's or other's position? Not inflated on those with no, or
little, money bet to give a false impression?

 

As I write, declared BF SP markets for the last 12 races anywhere are:

 

97.1 

99.3

102.3

97.6

93.3

99.8

104.2

100.0

98.6

102.9

98.7

98.7

 

So, under 100% average, cf last available bet price markets of 102-108%. I
smell a rat.

 

 

Pub time for me.

 

 

LBL

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2020 10:15 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Len,

            Below Betfair place SP as opposed to New Place prices after
deductions race 2 Pinjarra

 

        Bookie   Betfair

 

1.	3.4       5.24
2.	3.4       4.19
3.	1.76     2.25
4.	SCR
5.	1.56     1.9
6.	2.4       2.14
7.	3.75     6.0

  

(commission not deducted) Only 1 inferior price

 

But as usual across the board BF prices far superior.

 

Still cannot get my head around why people bet with Corporate thieves.

 

Ken

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Saturday, February 8, 2020 7:47 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions "Scam"

 

Pinjarra Race 2 today had #4 scratched when it was 1.80 the Win pretty well
across the board.

Both Sportsbetting and TopSport declared deductions of 37% for the Place.

Taking Sportsbetting's pre-scratching market, it's 246%, pretty typical.

 

BUT, after deducting 37%, it becomes 267%, highlighting the unfairness of
the deduction.

Sportsbetting then put up a new market, at 248%.

How would you feel if you'd put $435 on #5 at 1.92, saw it reduced to a
payout at 1.21 only to see the same bookmaker immediately offer 1.56?

 

	
Original

After 37%

New Place 


TAB

Place Price

Deduction

Price


1

5.90 

3.72 

3.40 


2

6.10 

3.84 

3.40 


3

2.55 

1.61 

1.76 


4

1.29 

		

5

1.92 

1.21 

1.56 


6

3.65 

2.30 

2.40 


7

6.10 

3.84 

3.75 

				
	
246%

267%

248%

 

 

LBL

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Thu Feb 20 08:23:31 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 08:23:31 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] TAB
Message-ID: <000501d5e76a$d81f7eb0$885e7c10$@ozemail.com.au>


Tabcorp misses targets as merger costs rise


 <https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/136b63920efa2b22ed018c12c6adc409> 

David Attenborough in Melbourne on Wednesday Picture: Stuart McEvoy


*         Jared Lynch <https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/Jared+Lynch> 


Reporter

@jaredm_lynch <http://twitter.com/jaredm_lynch> 



*	9:02PM February 19, 2020
*
<https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/companies/lotto-lifts-tabcorp-pro
fit-as-wagering-declines/news-story/682e12fd654893f2421061a39d8a3da8#coral>
3 Comments

Tabcorp chief executive David Attenborough says the gaming giant has a tale
of two wagering divisions, as the costs of integrating UBET and its current
"uncompetitive" offering weighs on the company's earnings.

A surge in revenue across its lotto business - which it acquired during its
$11bn merger with Tatts in 2017 - was not enough to stop Tabcorp missing
half-year profit expectations, largely thanks to another Tatts child,
betting brand UBET.

On Wednesday Mr Attenborough said the integration of Tatts was going to cost
an extra $40m - $135m in total - citing the "increased complexity" of
ensuring a successful migration of UBET customers to the TAB platform.

Tabcorp's shares fell 5.7 per cent to $4.31 following Mr Attenborough's
comments.

He said the wagering result reflected "a business navigating a large and
complex integration and transforming its offer in a softer market".

That integration isn't expected to be completed until near the end of the
financial year and was one of the factors that propelled a 3.7 per cent
decline in revenue to $1.179bn across Tabcorp's wagering and media business.

"Until we complete the integration, it (Tabcorp's wagering business) is
sitting there with a chunk of it, the UBET bit, with a substandard offering
with far less products and frankly uncompetitive," he said.

"Then you have got the TAB part where we are transforming and doing a lot
around the brand, digital and retail that will be really compelling when we
can roll them across UBET. "The TAB element is competing well. Customers are
up and relative to its competitors its sales are good. So it's safe to say
the wagering business is almost a tale of two businesses."

 <https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/8279a7f5e9bbda2d6456583db07de461> 

While the integration is set to be completed before the end of the financial
year, well in time for this year's spring racing carnival, Mr Attenborough
was cautious on providing second-half guidance. But he said 2021 would be a
stronger year, receiving the full benefit of the final phase of the Tatts'
integration.

Digital wagering fell 4.9 per cent and retail turnover plummeted 9 per cent.
Meanwhile its gaming services division also posted a 4.4 per cent revenue
decline, with Mr Attenborough citing the non-renewal of a Telstra service
contract and pending expiry of the NSW Statewide Linked Jackpots.

Its lotteries and Keno business in contrast, delivered a 12.4 per cent
increase to $1.584bn.

A record $150m Powerball jackpot last September helped lift earnings in that
division and Mr Attenborough said changes to the Set for Life game would
create further demand.

Overall, revenue firmed 4 per cent to $2.91bn, while net profit rose 11 per
cent to $198.8m.

Ratings agency Moodys said an acceleration in the lotteries division,
particularly in digital, was "another fillip to an already strong performing
division".

Tabcorp will pay a dividend of 11c a share, fully franked and in line with
prior corresponding period, on March 18.

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sun Feb 23 14:43:13 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 14:43:13 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] NTRC
Message-ID: <004c01d5e9fb$60cb0a80$22611f80$@ozemail.com.au>

Below is an extract from a decision of the NTRC in the case:

 

Complainant: Mr Y 

Licensee: PointsBet 

Proceedings: Pursuant to section 85(2) of the Racing and Betting Act -
Referral of dispute to Racing Commission for determination 

Heard Before: Mr Alastair Shields (Presiding Member) 

(on papers) Ms Cindy Bravos 

Ms Amy Corcoran 

Date of Decision: 20 August 2019 

 

37. The Commission also notes that complainant's betting account was closed
by PointsBet at its discretion. The Commission is of the view that this is a
business decision that is available to PointsBet in accordance with its
terms and conditions to which the complainant agreed to at the time of
opening his betting account with PointsBet and again makes no further
finding in this regard. 

 

Although the bets in contention were all non-racing bets, a PointsBet
account can also be used to place bets on races - they are one of the 7
on-line bookmakers inputting to the VOP.

 

This appears to mean that the NTRC is ignoring the MBL ban on closing
accounts.

 

LBL

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sun Feb 23 18:46:55 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2020 18:46:55 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
Message-ID: <002a01d5ea1d$706c6200$51452600$@ozemail.com.au>

 

I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning

 



 

But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:

 



 

I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their
internal "email":

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

 

I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their
"Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

I sent an email, but no response.

 

I received a response from "Jared":



but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at
the screen, but came back every few minutes).

 

Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to
"Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:

 



 

The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent
some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an
inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.

 

Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate
thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and
stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite
your face"!

 

 

 

 

 

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From conceptracing at bigpond.com  Mon Feb 24 11:19:59 2020
From: conceptracing at bigpond.com (Ken Blake)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 08:19:59 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
In-Reply-To: <002a01d5ea1d$706c6200$51452600$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <002a01d5ea1d$706c6200$51452600$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <000001d5eaa8$26be7900$743b6b00$@bigpond.com>

Ahhh Len..you gotta love 'em, just another instance of the thousands of
reprehensible acts and the utter disdain they hold their clientele in.

 

Yes Len, I understand your predicament, but I was of the belief that you had
been pretty much red flagged across the board and throttled back to a
minimal level.

So I am surprised that they have accepted a $150 wager.

 

The problem I see with this instance is that the wager was placed through a
3rd party, so the issue may in fact lie with a Dynamic Odds algorithm
failure.

Of course both platforms will point the finger at each other trying to
absolve liability.

 

So please keep us informed, as I like many, will be interested to the final
resolution.

 

It's reached a disturbing stage when one has to screenshot every bet as
evidential backup for a possible dispute procedure. Just a sad indictment of
the times we live in.

 

KB 

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:47 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning

 



 

But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:

 



 

I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their
internal "email":

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

 

I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their
"Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

I sent an email, but no response.

 

I received a response from "Jared":



but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at
the screen, but came back every few minutes).

 

Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to
"Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:

 



 

The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent
some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an
inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.

 

Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate
thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and
stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite
your face"!

 

 

 

 

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Mon Feb 24 13:06:10 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 13:06:10 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
In-Reply-To: <000001d5eaa8$26be7900$743b6b00$@bigpond.com>
References: <002a01d5ea1d$706c6200$51452600$@ozemail.com.au>
	<000001d5eaa8$26be7900$743b6b00$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <000b01d5eab6$fddf8790$f99e96b0$@ozemail.com.au>

That bet was outside of MBL hours, but if it were after 9am, they would have
had to accept, and would have accepted, $173.

 

I can live with, but not like, the "minimal level" provided by MBL,
especially as TopSport, SportsBet, Neds and TAB generally bet it, or better,
24/7, and Betzero provides certainty by sticking rigidly to MBL.

 

What I find the worst " sad indictment of the times we live in" is the
incompetence of the IT providers, of which this is a good example. Due in
part to the fact that there are so many programmers these days, and just as
with the consequences of smaller school class sizes requiring more teachers
being poorer teachers on average, the average ability of programmers is far
inferior to days of yore. 

 

BetZero won't take bets at prices of 2.88, 1.57, 1.44 via Dynamic Odds, and
has never done so - it reports "price changed from 2.88 to 2.88 etc); how
hard would that be to rectify? 

 

This does not affect functionality, but.

 

> 10 hours to go:  

At the magic hour it becomes 

 

How hard can that be to fix?

 

The web-sites get "upgraded" but lose useful features without adding any
useful additions. Greg Conway has commented on this site about the contrast
between today's site designers and his team when he implemented TAB's
original site. 

 

So many use red and green to "differentiate" despite 10-12% of male
Caucasians, their main customers, being red-green colour-blind. 

 

On-line bookmakers regularly put up 90% books and less that I can see in a
second are wrong despite having computer programs written by "whiz-kids"
who'd regard me as a slow-thinking dinosaur.. 

 

The newspapers are full of spelling and grammatical mistakes that were not
prevalent in the days pre-spelling and grammar-checks......'

I am now downloading and storing BFSP Win prices - I can't find the Place
prices in a downloadable form, but I can't see how they are useful anyway,
the bet/lay "matches" are tiny. 95% of my bets are Place, so the BFSP Win is
of minimal interest. 

 

I had just 3 win bets yesterday:

 

Fixed price obtained      BFSP                   SOP     Top Final Fixed 

19.00                     9.40(8.56 nett)       9.00              9.50

5.40                      5.00(4.76 nett)       4.60              4.80

7.70                      8.72(8.25 nett)       6.50              7.50

 

Despite a BF rep buying me breakfast and explaining how BFSP is determined,
I have no confidence in the integrity of the product - there is, in my
opinion, almost an absence of transparency and I could easily produce a
pricing algorithm to favour either takers or layers, yes in the few seconds
before they appear, well before the race is determined.

 

Today also just 3 win bets:

 

Quean 7/13 161.00

Bath     4/1    3.65 

Quean  4/4   6.00

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:20 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

Ahhh Len..you gotta love 'em, just another instance of the thousands of
reprehensible acts and the utter disdain they hold their clientele in.

 

Yes Len, I understand your predicament, but I was of the belief that you had
been pretty much red flagged across the board and throttled back to a
minimal level.

So I am surprised that they have accepted a $150 wager.

 

The problem I see with this instance is that the wager was placed through a
3rd party, so the issue may in fact lie with a Dynamic Odds algorithm
failure.

Of course both platforms will point the finger at each other trying to
absolve liability.

 

So please keep us informed, as I like many, will be interested to the final
resolution.

 

It's reached a disturbing stage when one has to screenshot every bet as
evidential backup for a possible dispute procedure. Just a sad indictment of
the times we live in.

 

KB 

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:47 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning

 



 

But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:

 



 

I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their
internal "email":

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

 

I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their
"Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

I sent an email, but no response.

 

I received a response from "Jared":



but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at
the screen, but came back every few minutes).

 

Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to
"Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:

 



 

The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent
some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an
inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.

 

Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate
thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and
stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite
your face"!

 

 

 

 

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Mon Feb 24 21:00:57 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2020 21:00:57 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
Message-ID: <001401d5eaf9$51d5cca0$f58165e0$@ozemail.com.au>

 

 

From: L.B.Loveday 
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 17:06 PM
To: 'L.B.Loveday' <lloveday at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: RE: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

From: L.B.Loveday 
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 13:06 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: RE: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

Fixed price obtained      BFSP                   SOP     Top Final Fixed 

19.00                     9.40(8.56 nett)       9.00              9.50

5.40                      5.00(4.76 nett)       4.60              4.80

7.70                      8.72(8.25 nett)       6.50              7.50

 

Today also just 3 win bets:

 

Quean 7/13 161.00

Bath     4/1    3.65 

Quean  4/4   6.00

 

Fixed price obtained      BFSP                   SOP     Top Final Fixed 

161.00                  220.00(181.00nett)      9.00            301.00

3.65                      5.06(4.65 nett)       4.80              5.00

6.00                      4.60(4.24 nett)       3.80              4.00

 

At least the winner was good early odds, and 3 gets 6 makes Jack a happy
boy; much happier than 3 gets 4.24!

 

 

 

The 220.00 cf #5 267.97 and #7 60.00 cf #4 39.86 adds to my scepticism about
the calculation process.

 

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:20 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < <mailto:racing at ausrace.com>
racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

Ahhh Len..you gotta love 'em, just another instance of the thousands of
reprehensible acts and the utter disdain they hold their clientele in.

 

Yes Len, I understand your predicament, but I was of the belief that you had
been pretty much red flagged across the board and throttled back to a
minimal level.

So I am surprised that they have accepted a $150 wager.

 

The problem I see with this instance is that the wager was placed through a
3rd party, so the issue may in fact lie with a Dynamic Odds algorithm
failure.

Of course both platforms will point the finger at each other trying to
absolve liability.

 

So please keep us informed, as I like many, will be interested to the final
resolution.

 

It's reached a disturbing stage when one has to screenshot every bet as
evidential backup for a possible dispute procedure. Just a sad indictment of
the times we live in.

 

KB 

 

 

 

From: Racing [ <mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com>
mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:47 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' < <mailto:racing at ausrace.com>
racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning

 



 

But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:

 



 

I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their
internal "email":

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

 

I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their
"Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen
shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7,
Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

I sent an email, but no response.

 

I received a response from "Jared":



but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at
the screen, but came back every few minutes).

 

Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to
"Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:

 



 

The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent
some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an
inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.

 

Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate
thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and
stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite
your face"!

 

 

 

 

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb 25 07:59:03 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 07:59:03 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] RE  Dudded, well and truly.
Message-ID: <004401d5eb55$40ecb5a0$c2c620e0$@ozemail.com.au>

 

Ken,

 

Here's the (expected) cop-out:

********

Hi Leonard,?

 ?

Thank you for contacting Neds. ?

?

Apologies for your experience with our live chat service. I will endeavour to speak with that operator regarding the live chat.?

?

Additionally, I have reviewed your betting enquiry however the support we can offer is very limited.  ?

?

We believe there may have been an error from dynamic odds' interface when interacting with our platform. This has caused the bet to be placed on the incorrect horse. 

?

The information we received to our betting platform was for the selection 7. Hayzelle, we have no information regarding a selection for 6. Conge.

?

At this stage we are unfortunately unable to cancel the bet, however you may be able to speak with dynamic odds regarding their platform for further assistance.

 

Should you have any questions we will be pleased to assist you. ?

 ?

Kind Regards,?

?

Jacob O'Brien?

*********

 

The only recourse is to the NTRC, as incompetent or corrupt, or both, a mob as I've come across. The decisions they have made in my past appeals would be laughed out of a judicial court. But do I waste my time just to inconvenience Neds?

 

& here's my reply to Neds:

*************

Thank you for your response. You are unable "to cancel the bet at this stage", but it should never have reached "this stage" - it should have been cancelled when I notified Neds within minutes, over 6 hours before the race, and again 5 hours before the race. 

 

As I see it, you contract out part of your betting to Dynamic Odds and YOU are responsible for bets they take on your behalf; I'll see how the NTRC views it.

*************

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:20 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

Ahhh Len?.you gotta love ?em, just another instance of the thousands of reprehensible acts and the utter disdain they hold their clientele in.

 

Yes Len, I understand your predicament, but I was of the belief that you had been pretty much red flagged across the board and throttled back to a minimal level.

So I am surprised that they have accepted a $150 wager.

 

The problem I see with this instance is that the wager was placed through a 3rd party, so the issue may in fact lie with a Dynamic Odds algorithm failure.

Of course both platforms will point the finger at each other trying to absolve liability.

 

So please keep us informed, as I like many, will be interested to the final resolution.

 

It?s reached a disturbing stage when one has to screenshot every bet as evidential backup for a possible dispute procedure. Just a sad indictment of the times we live in.

 

KB 

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:47 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning

 



 

But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:

 



 

I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their internal "email":

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

 

I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their "Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

I sent an email, but no response.

 

I received a response from "Jared":



but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at the screen, but came back every few minutes).

 

Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to "Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:

 



 

The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.

 

Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face"!

 

 

 

 

 

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From greg.j.conroy at gmail.com  Tue Feb 25 10:17:27 2020
From: greg.j.conroy at gmail.com (Greg Conroy)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 10:17:27 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
In-Reply-To: <000b01d5eab6$fddf8790$f99e96b0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <002a01d5ea1d$706c6200$51452600$@ozemail.com.au>
	<000001d5eaa8$26be7900$743b6b00$@bigpond.com>
	<000b01d5eab6$fddf8790$f99e96b0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <e39f47db-10f3-40f3-9ac1-dc643bc2289f@Spark>

Thanks for the love Len,

But it?s Greg Conroy - not Conway.

However, those bugs on Dynamic I?ve noticed myself - indeed, there?s hundreds of them.

I used to tell Karl (the programmer behind the software - a one man band, self taught) of all the bugs on a daily basis but since TBH (ASX) have taken over them, he is too busy being a millionaire to be worried about fixing software.

A fellow ex-tab mate (we were all very well taught, we were the cream - literally- of computer scientists each year ? as the tab would interview about 30 applicants for the Computer Science degree at NSWIT/UTS (Uni Of Technology, Sydney) each year and the best three would get a scholarship to uni ? described Karl?s code as a ?ball of mud? when he saw it as Karl also wrote the prototype for www.rewardbet.com

My mate spent 9 months rewriting it to make it a proper application up to my standards. Karl wrote the original ?ball of mud? in three months and it was fixed price - so the quicker he hacked it together, the better it was for him.

Anyways, my eye for detail can be very frustrating as bugs like you point out are everywhere.

Yes, programmers today are sloppy as they have tools that allow them to cover up many such errors and outlier situations (what every programmer should always consider) are not thought through.

Close enough is good enough for many of these.

Cheers, Greg Conroy.
On 24 Feb 2020, 1:06 PM +1100, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au>, wrote:
> That bet was outside of MBL hours, but if it were after 9am, they would have had to accept, and would have accepted, $173.
>
> I can live with, but not like, the "minimal level" provided by MBL, especially as TopSport, SportsBet, Neds and TAB generally bet it, or better, 24/7, and Betzero provides certainty by sticking rigidly to MBL.
>
> What I find the worst " sad indictment of the times we live in" is the incompetence of the IT providers, of which this is a good example. Due in part to the fact that there are so many programmers these days, and just as with the consequences of smaller school class sizes requiring more teachers being poorer teachers on average, the average ability of programmers is far inferior to days of yore.
>
> BetZero won't take bets at prices of 2.88, 1.57, 1.44 via Dynamic Odds, and has never done so - it reports "price changed from 2.88 to 2.88 etc); how hard would that be to rectify?
>
> This does not affect functionality, but?
>
> > 10 hours to go:
> At the magic hour it becomes
>
> How hard can that be to fix?
>
> The web-sites get "upgraded" but lose useful features without adding any useful additions. Greg Conway has commented on this site about the contrast between today's site designers and his team when he implemented TAB's original site.
>
> So many use red and green to "differentiate" despite 10-12% of male Caucasians, their main customers, being red-green colour-blind.
>
> On-line bookmakers regularly put up 90% books and less that I can see in a second are wrong despite having computer programs written by "whiz-kids" who'd regard me as a slow-thinking dinosaur?.
>
> The newspapers are full of spelling and grammatical mistakes that were not prevalent in the days pre-spelling and grammar-checks?????.'
> I am now downloading and storing BFSP Win prices - I can't find the Place prices in a downloadable form, but I can't see how they are useful anyway, the bet/lay "matches" are tiny. 95% of my bets are Place, so the BFSP Win is of minimal interest.
>
> I had just 3 win bets yesterday:
>
> Fixed price obtained? ????BFSP ??????????????????SOP ????Top Final Fixed
> 19.00???????????????? ????9.40(8.56 nett)?????? 9.00 ?????????????9.50
> 5.40????????????????????? 5.00(4.76 nett)?????? 4.60????????????? 4.80
> 7.70????????????????????? 8.72(8.25 nett)?? ????6.50?????? ???????7.50
>
> Despite a BF rep buying me breakfast and explaining how BFSP is determined, I have no confidence in the integrity of the product - there is, in my opinion, almost an absence of transparency and I could easily produce a pricing algorithm to favour either takers or layers, yes in the few seconds before they appear, well before the race is determined.
>
> Today also just 3 win bets:
>
> Quean 7/13 161.00
> Bath???? 4/1??? 3.65
> Quean? 4/4?? 6.00
>
> From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
> Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:20 AM
> To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
>
> Ahhh Len?.you gotta love ?em, just another instance of the thousands of reprehensible acts and the utter disdain they hold their clientele in.
>
> Yes Len, I understand your predicament, but I was of the belief that you had been pretty much red flagged across the board and throttled back to a minimal level.
> So I am surprised that they have accepted a $150 wager.
>
> The problem I see with this instance is that the wager was placed through a 3rd party, so the issue may in fact lie with a Dynamic Odds algorithm failure.
> Of course both platforms will point the finger at each other trying to absolve liability.
>
> So please keep us informed, as I like many, will be interested to the final resolution.
>
> It?s reached a disturbing stage when one has to screenshot every bet as evidential backup for a possible dispute procedure. Just a sad indictment of the times we live in.
>
> KB
>
>
>
> From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:47 PM
> To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
>
>
> I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning
>
> <image001.png>
>
> But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:
>
>
> I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their internal "email":
>
> I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.
> When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle.
> I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.
>
> I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their "Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:
>
> I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.
> When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle.
> I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.
> I sent an email, but no response.
>
> I received a response from "Jared":
> but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at the screen, but came back every few minutes).
>
> Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to "Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:
>
>
> The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.
>
> Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face"!
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
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From conceptracing at bigpond.com  Tue Feb 25 11:08:30 2020
From: conceptracing at bigpond.com (Ken Blake)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 08:08:30 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] RE  Dudded, well and truly.
In-Reply-To: <004401d5eb55$40ecb5a0$c2c620e0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <004401d5eb55$40ecb5a0$c2c620e0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <000c01d5eb6f$b6675460$2335fd20$@bigpond.com>

Len,

          Thanks for the update??yes,  as you?ve already touched upon ?expected reply?

 

So it?s over to Dynamic Odds I suspect, and as I touched upon yesterday, will point the finger back at NEDS, which then will put yourself in the unenviable situation (based on history ) of dealing with NTRC, who, as we all suspect are in bed with all wagering operators.

 

Some years back I was dudded by the W.A. tote and took them to task continually escalating the complaint. Eventually I won out and was awarded an Ex Gratia payment of $1800.00

I suspect what was favourable to my cause at the time was my long term turnover with them. 

 

I am not privy to your NEDS profit / loss statements but if you have relieved their coffers of a few pennies, then that may negatively impact your cause. I?m sure that with a mug with a reasonably high turnover and poor strike rate perhaps a softer line would have been adopted with a bigger picture approach.

 

I know one thing, you have done nothing wrong and either NEDS or Dynamic Odds must accept liability and make payment. 

Actually getting payment though is a whole new landscape.

 

KB

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 4:59 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] RE Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

Ken,

 

Here's the (expected) cop-out:

********

Hi Leonard,?

 ?

Thank you for contacting Neds. ?

?

Apologies for your experience with our live chat service. I will endeavour to speak with that operator regarding the live chat.?

?

Additionally, I have reviewed your betting enquiry however the support we can offer is very limited.  ?

?

We believe there may have been an error from dynamic odds' interface when interacting with our platform. This has caused the bet to be placed on the incorrect horse. 

?

The information we received to our betting platform was for the selection 7. Hayzelle, we have no information regarding a selection for 6. Conge.

?

At this stage we are unfortunately unable to cancel the bet, however you may be able to speak with dynamic odds regarding their platform for further assistance.

 

Should you have any questions we will be pleased to assist you. ?

 ?

Kind Regards,?

?

Jacob O'Brien?

*********

 

The only recourse is to the NTRC, as incompetent or corrupt, or both, a mob as I've come across. The decisions they have made in my past appeals would be laughed out of a judicial court. But do I waste my time just to inconvenience Neds?

 

& here's my reply to Neds:

*************

Thank you for your response. You are unable "to cancel the bet at this stage", but it should never have reached "this stage" - it should have been cancelled when I notified Neds within minutes, over 6 hours before the race, and again 5 hours before the race. 

 

As I see it, you contract out part of your betting to Dynamic Odds and YOU are responsible for bets they take on your behalf; I'll see how the NTRC views it.

*************

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:20 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

Ahhh Len?.you gotta love ?em, just another instance of the thousands of reprehensible acts and the utter disdain they hold their clientele in.

 

Yes Len, I understand your predicament, but I was of the belief that you had been pretty much red flagged across the board and throttled back to a minimal level.

So I am surprised that they have accepted a $150 wager.

 

The problem I see with this instance is that the wager was placed through a 3rd party, so the issue may in fact lie with a Dynamic Odds algorithm failure.

Of course both platforms will point the finger at each other trying to absolve liability.

 

So please keep us informed, as I like many, will be interested to the final resolution.

 

It?s reached a disturbing stage when one has to screenshot every bet as evidential backup for a possible dispute procedure. Just a sad indictment of the times we live in.

 

KB 

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:47 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning

 



 

But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:

 



 

I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their internal "email":

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

 

I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their "Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle. 

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

I sent an email, but no response.

 

I received a response from "Jared":



but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at the screen, but came back every few minutes).

 

Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to "Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:

 



 

The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.

 

Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face"!

 

 

 

 

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb 25 11:34:25 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 11:34:25 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.
In-Reply-To: <e39f47db-10f3-40f3-9ac1-dc643bc2289f@Spark>
References: <002a01d5ea1d$706c6200$51452600$@ozemail.com.au>	<000001d5eaa8$26be7900$743b6b00$@bigpond.com>	<000b01d5eab6$fddf8790$f99e96b0$@ozemail.com.au>
	<e39f47db-10f3-40f3-9ac1-dc643bc2289f@Spark>
Message-ID: <006e01d5eb73$56e9d8b0$04bd8a10$@ozemail.com.au>

Sorry about that Greg, lack of co-ordination between brain and fingers is my story!

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Greg Conroy
Sent: Tuesday, 25 February 2020 10:17 AM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

Thanks for the love Len, 

 

But it?s Greg Conroy - not Conway.

 

However, those bugs on Dynamic I?ve noticed myself - indeed, there?s hundreds of them.

 

I used to tell Karl (the programmer behind the software - a one man band, self taught) of all the bugs on a daily basis but since TBH (ASX) have taken over them, he is too busy being a millionaire to be worried about fixing software.

 

A fellow ex-tab mate (we were all very well taught, we were the cream - literally- of computer scientists each year ? as the tab would interview about 30 applicants for the Computer Science degree at NSWIT/UTS (Uni Of Technology, Sydney) each year and the best three would get a scholarship to uni ? described Karl?s code as a ?ball of mud? when he saw it as Karl also wrote the prototype for www.rewardbet.com <http://www.rewardbet.com> 

 

My mate spent 9 months rewriting it to make it a proper application up to my standards. Karl wrote the original ?ball of mud? in three months and it was fixed price - so the quicker he hacked it together, the better it was for him.

 

Anyways, my eye for detail can be very frustrating as bugs like you point out are everywhere.

 

Yes, programmers today are sloppy as they have tools that allow them to cover up many such errors and outlier situations (what every programmer should always consider) are not thought through. 

 

Close enough is good enough for many of these.

 

Cheers, Greg Conroy. 

On 24 Feb 2020, 1:06 PM +1100, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au <mailto:lloveday at ozemail.com.au> >, wrote:



That bet was outside of MBL hours, but if it were after 9am, they would have had to accept, and would have accepted, $173.

 

I can live with, but not like, the "minimal level" provided by MBL, especially as TopSport, SportsBet, Neds and TAB generally bet it, or better, 24/7, and Betzero provides certainty by sticking rigidly to MBL.

 

What I find the worst " sad indictment of the times we live in" is the incompetence of the IT providers, of which this is a good example. Due in part to the fact that there are so many programmers these days, and just as with the consequences of smaller school class sizes requiring more teachers being poorer teachers on average, the average ability of programmers is far inferior to days of yore.

 

BetZero won't take bets at prices of 2.88, 1.57, 1.44 via Dynamic Odds, and has never done so - it reports "price changed from 2.88 to 2.88 etc); how hard would that be to rectify?

 

This does not affect functionality, but?

 

> 10 hours to go:  

At the magic hour it becomes 

 

How hard can that be to fix?

 

The web-sites get "upgraded" but lose useful features without adding any useful additions. Greg Conway has commented on this site about the contrast between today's site designers and his team when he implemented TAB's original site.

 

So many use red and green to "differentiate" despite 10-12% of male Caucasians, their main customers, being red-green colour-blind.

 

On-line bookmakers regularly put up 90% books and less that I can see in a second are wrong despite having computer programs written by "whiz-kids" who'd regard me as a slow-thinking dinosaur?.

 

The newspapers are full of spelling and grammatical mistakes that were not prevalent in the days pre-spelling and grammar-checks?????.'

I am now downloading and storing BFSP Win prices - I can't find the Place prices in a downloadable form, but I can't see how they are useful anyway, the bet/lay "matches" are tiny. 95% of my bets are Place, so the BFSP Win is of minimal interest.

 

I had just 3 win bets yesterday:

 

Fixed price obtained      BFSP                   SOP     Top Final Fixed

19.00                     9.40(8.56 nett)       9.00              9.50

5.40                      5.00(4.76 nett)       4.60              4.80

7.70                      8.72(8.25 nett)       6.50              7.50

 

Despite a BF rep buying me breakfast and explaining how BFSP is determined, I have no confidence in the integrity of the product - there is, in my opinion, almost an absence of transparency and I could easily produce a pricing algorithm to favour either takers or layers, yes in the few seconds before they appear, well before the race is determined.

 

Today also just 3 win bets:

 

Quean 7/13 161.00

Bath     4/1    3.65

Quean  4/4   6.00

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:20 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

Ahhh Len?.you gotta love ?em, just another instance of the thousands of reprehensible acts and the utter disdain they hold their clientele in.

 

Yes Len, I understand your predicament, but I was of the belief that you had been pretty much red flagged across the board and throttled back to a minimal level.

So I am surprised that they have accepted a $150 wager.

 

The problem I see with this instance is that the wager was placed through a 3rd party, so the issue may in fact lie with a Dynamic Odds algorithm failure.

Of course both platforms will point the finger at each other trying to absolve liability.

 

So please keep us informed, as I like many, will be interested to the final resolution.

 

It?s reached a disturbing stage when one has to screenshot every bet as evidential backup for a possible dispute procedure. Just a sad indictment of the times we live in.

 

KB

 

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:47 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Dudded, well and truly.

 

 

I placed this bet on Pt Lincoln 1/6 via Dynamic Odds this morning

 

<image001.png>

 

But it was recorded on Ned's site as Pt Lincoln 1/7:

 



 

I could not find a "proper" email for Neds, so before 8am used their internal "email":

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle.

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

 

I had received no response by 9:30 (and still have not) so I used their "Live Chat", using the same words as in the email, with the addition:

 

I backed PtLincoln 1/6 Conge at $3.30 with Dynamic Odds. I have screen shots, if you need them.

When I checked on NEDS.com.au, you have recorded them as being on 1/7, Hayzelle.

I backed Conge, not Hayzelle - can you please rectify or cancel.

I sent an email, but no response.

 

I received a response from "Jared":



but "one moment" became many minutes (I did not just sit there looking at the screen, but came back every few minutes).

 

Then the "Chat" was terminated because it had been idle for so long - due to "Jared" not getting back to me! I was asked for feedback and thanked for it:

 



 

The only recourse is the crooked NTRC, who would, 99.9% certainty, invent some reason to rule for Neds. A waste of my time other than to cause an inconvenience to Neds; it's not a fortune.

 

Ken Blake may see that as another excuse to not "bet with Corporate thieves"; it's not - the reason to bet with Corporates is to make money and stopping doing would be a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face"!

 

 

 

 

 

_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com <mailto:Racing at ausrace.com> 
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb 25 17:42:20 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 17:42:20 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] BFSP
Message-ID: <001801d5eba6$bc9186d0$35b49470$@ozemail.com.au>

I've said I don't trust the computation of BFSP; here's a little preliminary
back-up from my collection of 4,894 prices from 15/2/2020-23/2. That's
limited data but will quickly increase.

 

1002 were exact $ values, being 20% compared to an expected 1%. That is so
far outside normal expectation that I can't think of a rational reason other
than manipulation or providing misleading figures. 

 

It's not because the higher prices are rounded - the 10 highest prices are:


511.84


557.25


567.44


571.09


580.88


592.44


604.27


668.85


671.44


833.61

the 10 lowest prices are:


1.23 


1.30 


1.30 


1.36 


1.39 


1.51 


1.52 


1.53 


1.53 


1.54 

 

Of the 3,892 prices that are not exact $ values, 850 were to 10 cents ala
TAB (eg 1.30 as above), being 22% compared to an expected 10%.

 

If I get around to it, I'll conjure up a theoretical (it has to be
theoretical as BF don't provide data to enable checking) example of how the
calculations can be rigged to favour certain people, including BF.

 

LBL 

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From greg.j.conroy at gmail.com  Tue Feb 25 17:48:52 2020
From: greg.j.conroy at gmail.com (Greg Conroy)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 17:48:52 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] BFSP
In-Reply-To: <001801d5eba6$bc9186d0$35b49470$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001801d5eba6$bc9186d0$35b49470$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <f314caec-5e90-44cf-92a9-874828348ff1@Spark>

I sat next to the inventor of BF SP for three months whilst bringing the tote into Betfair whilst on secondment to Betfair UK.

He provided the spreadsheet he used to prototype the calculations and the same spreadsheet the engineering team used to code and test the product.

The same stuff that regulators receive to approve the product.

I?m a smart guy (10 patents etc) but it was beyond me to understand except in principle.

It?s a great product but can be limited by the amount of liquidity in the main exchange markets.

Greg.
On 25 Feb 2020, 5:42 PM +1100, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au>, wrote:
> I've said I don't trust the computation of BFSP; here's a little preliminary back-up from my collection of 4,894 prices from 15/2/2020-23/2. That's limited data but will quickly increase.
>
> 1002 were exact $ values, being 20% compared to an expected 1%. That is so far outside normal expectation that I can't think of a rational reason other than manipulation or providing misleading figures.
>
> It's not because the higher prices are rounded - the 10 highest prices are:
> 511.84
> 557.25
> 567.44
> 571.09
> 580.88
> 592.44
> 604.27
> 668.85
> 671.44
> 833.61
> the 10 lowest prices are:
> 1.23
> 1.30
> 1.30
> 1.36
> 1.39
> 1.51
> 1.52
> 1.53
> 1.53
> 1.54
>
> Of the 3,892 prices that are not exact $ values, 850 were to 10 cents ala TAB (eg 1.30 as above), being 22% compared to an expected 10%.
>
> If I get around to it, I'll conjure up a theoretical (it has to be theoretical as BF don't provide data to enable checking) example of how the calculations can be rigged to favour certain people, including BF.
>
> LBL
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Feb 26 09:23:33 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 09:23:33 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
Message-ID: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>

Blatant disregard of the MBL - par for the course for Playup, but there is no point in complaining other than to inconvenience the cheats.

 

Time stamped 9:00:03, 3 seconds past the witching hour, so I asked for $145, being to win $797.50 (MBL mandates $800). But there are enough bookmakers who abide by the law (and in the case of Sportsbet, TopSport and TAB, go beyond their mandated obligation) to keep me off the park bench - just. 

 

 



 

 

 

Neds came up with this:

 

Hi Leonard,?

 ?

Thank you for contacting Neds. ?

 ?

I do apologise for the issue, however dynamic odds is a 3rd party provider and we cannot be responsible for their site.  ?

?

You could have called up to have the bet checked and we could have assisted in cancelling the bet as we cannot cancel bets via live chat or email.  In any instance the operator should have replied to you and requested you to call in via live chat.?

?

I have spoken to my supervisor and unfortunately as the race has been completed we cannot cancel the bet, however he has applied $150 worth of bonus cash to your account for you to use.  I know this isn't as good as getting your funds back but we hope this will be sufficient to show our sincere apologies for the issue.?

?

You should also keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly.?

 ?

 ?

Should you have any questions we will be pleased to assist you. ?

 ?

Kind Regards,?

 ?

 

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From conceptracing at bigpond.com  Wed Feb 26 10:05:36 2020
From: conceptracing at bigpond.com (Ken Blake)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 07:05:36 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
In-Reply-To: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>

Len?well, it will be interesting to see Dynamic Odds stance in this situation.

 

Neds response seems to be somewhat contradictory. On one line they state they cannot cancel bets via live chat, then, tell you the operator should have directed you to live chat ????

 

KB

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 6:24 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Blatant disregard of the MBL - par for the course for Playup, but there is no point in complaining other than to inconvenience the cheats.

 

Time stamped 9:00:03, 3 seconds past the witching hour, so I asked for $145, being to win $797.50 (MBL mandates $800). But there are enough bookmakers who abide by the law (and in the case of Sportsbet, TopSport and TAB, go beyond their mandated obligation) to keep me off the park bench - just. 

 

 



 

 

 

Neds came up with this:

 

Hi Leonard,?

 ?

Thank you for contacting Neds. ?

 ?

I do apologise for the issue, however dynamic odds is a 3rd party provider and we cannot be responsible for their site.  ?

?

You could have called up to have the bet checked and we could have assisted in cancelling the bet as we cannot cancel bets via live chat or email.  In any instance the operator should have replied to you and requested you to call in via live chat.?

?

I have spoken to my supervisor and unfortunately as the race has been completed we cannot cancel the bet, however he has applied $150 worth of bonus cash to your account for you to use.  I know this isn't as good as getting your funds back but we hope this will be sufficient to show our sincere apologies for the issue.?

?

You should also keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly.?

 ?

 ?

Should you have any questions we will be pleased to assist you. ?

 ?

Kind Regards,?

 ?

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Feb 26 10:39:32 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 10:39:32 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
In-Reply-To: <000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>
References: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>
	<000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <007a01d5ec34$d622b130$82681390$@ozemail.com.au>

In any instance the operator should have replied to you and requested you to call in via live chat.?

 

What he means was that when I was on Live Chat I should have been requested to phone (viz the request for me to phone should have been made via live chat). Instead I got no reply for so long after the Live Chat operator was going to "look into this" that I was disconnected.

 

I dislike phone discussions - there is no record, they can lie with impunity and from the few I've had, my limited evidence is that there are too many half-smart, rude, unknowledgeable twits who think they are wise and the customer is an idiot.

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 10:06 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Len?well, it will be interesting to see Dynamic Odds stance in this situation.

 

Neds response seems to be somewhat contradictory. On one line they state they cannot cancel bets via live chat, then, tell you the operator should have directed you to live chat ????

 

KB

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 6:24 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Blatant disregard of the MBL - par for the course for Playup, but there is no point in complaining other than to inconvenience the cheats.

 

Time stamped 9:00:03, 3 seconds past the witching hour, so I asked for $145, being to win $797.50 (MBL mandates $800). But there are enough bookmakers who abide by the law (and in the case of Sportsbet, TopSport and TAB, go beyond their mandated obligation) to keep me off the park bench - just. 

 

 



 

 

 

Neds came up with this:

 

Hi Leonard,?

 ?

Thank you for contacting Neds. ?

 ?

I do apologise for the issue, however dynamic odds is a 3rd party provider and we cannot be responsible for their site.  ?

?

You could have called up to have the bet checked and we could have assisted in cancelling the bet as we cannot cancel bets via live chat or email.  In any instance the operator should have replied to you and requested you to call in via live chat.?

?

I have spoken to my supervisor and unfortunately as the race has been completed we cannot cancel the bet, however he has applied $150 worth of bonus cash to your account for you to use.  I know this isn't as good as getting your funds back but we hope this will be sufficient to show our sincere apologies for the issue.?

?

You should also keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly.?

 ?

 ?

Should you have any questions we will be pleased to assist you. ?

 ?

Kind Regards,?

 ?

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Feb 26 16:58:19 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 16:58:19 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
In-Reply-To: <000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>
References: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>
	<000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <00ce01d5ec69$c186b610$44942230$@ozemail.com.au>

Ken,

 

Am I missing something in thinking it should be Neds, not me, that "should keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly."?

 

After all it is virtually impossible that I was the only one affected and Neds should have a direct line to the top at DO. I used to get fair responses from Karl Begg, and excellent from his brother Dave, but as Greg Conway pointed out, they are now too busy being millionaires to be worried about subscribers.

 

LBL

 

 

 ?

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 10:06 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Len?well, it will be interesting to see Dynamic Odds stance in this situation.

 

Neds response seems to be somewhat contradictory. On one line they state they cannot cancel bets via live chat, then, tell you the operator should have directed you to live chat ????

 

KB

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 6:24 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Blatant disregard of the MBL - par for the course for Playup, but there is no point in complaining other than to inconvenience the cheats.

 

Time stamped 9:00:03, 3 seconds past the witching hour, so I asked for $145, being to win $797.50 (MBL mandates $800). But there are enough bookmakers who abide by the law (and in the case of Sportsbet, TopSport and TAB, go beyond their mandated obligation) to keep me off the park bench - just. 

 

 



 

 

 

Neds came up with this:

 

Hi Leonard,?

 ?

Thank you for contacting Neds. ?

 ?

I do apologise for the issue, however dynamic odds is a 3rd party provider and we cannot be responsible for their site.  ?

?

You could have called up to have the bet checked and we could have assisted in cancelling the bet as we cannot cancel bets via live chat or email.  In any instance the operator should have replied to you and requested you to call in via live chat.?

?

I have spoken to my supervisor and unfortunately as the race has been completed we cannot cancel the bet, however he has applied $150 worth of bonus cash to your account for you to use.  I know this isn't as good as getting your funds back but we hope this will be sufficient to show our sincere apologies for the issue.?

?

You should also keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly.?

 ?

 ?

Should you have any questions we will be pleased to assist you. ?

 ?

Kind Regards,?

 ?

 

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From i8work at aussiebb.com.au  Wed Feb 26 18:42:43 2020
From: i8work at aussiebb.com.au (i8work at aussiebb.com.au)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 17:42:43 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
In-Reply-To: <00ce01d5ec69$c186b610$44942230$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>
	<000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>
	<00ce01d5ec69$c186b610$44942230$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <2100d851fd5b26467faa130b214ebe72@aussiebb.com.au>

(yes, he's back!!!)

"they are now too busy being millionaires to be worried about 
subscribers."

Having the same problem with DO myself - support has become a 
joke..........

*wanted them to fix their consistently missing meetings on the gear 
changes page esp on Sat, response "AAP aren't sending them on time", 
have a long term contact in AAP who (summarised) said "rubbish".

*continue to use Flash to power the Premium DO application despite it 
(Flash) being due for termination in Dec as it is too insecure - every 
time it updates I have trouble with DO refusing to work cos Flash is not 
up to date - have various blocks on my PC as Flash is so insecure and so 
it doesn't update thus breaking DO - support had no idea, ended up 
having to fix it myself (partially, but at least it has become 
functional for me again).

They desperately need some competition as they have developed "we are a 
monopoly so screw you" disease.

Laurie


On 2020-02-26 15:58, L.B.Loveday wrote:
> Ken,
> 
> Am I missing something in thinking it should be Neds, not me, that
> "_should keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help
> further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly_."?
> 
> After all it is virtually impossible that I was the only one affected
> and Neds should have a direct line to the top at DO. I used to get
> fair responses from Karl Begg, and excellent from his brother Dave,
> but as Greg Conway pointed out, they are now too busy being
> millionaires to be worried about subscribers.
> 
> LBL



From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Feb 26 22:25:06 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:25:06 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
In-Reply-To: <2100d851fd5b26467faa130b214ebe72@aussiebb.com.au>
References: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>	<000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>	<00ce01d5ec69$c186b610$44942230$@ozemail.com.au>
	<2100d851fd5b26467faa130b214ebe72@aussiebb.com.au>
Message-ID: <001001d5ec97$6761b0d0$36251270$@ozemail.com.au>

I've been getting quick replies and useful help from Scott Gooley at DO, but
I don't know how far up the chain he reaches.

I don't know much about telecommunications, but I do know the download times
for DO have jumped. I presume that's due to increased traffic (surely
they've not downgraded their capacity?), and presume that could be rectified
by paying more for more capacity and, or, using buffering "tricks" that Greg
Conroy has outlined.

It took me 3:34 just now to download tomorrow's prices for 5 meetings and
5:04 for today's 7. On Everest day it was taking me 25 minutes to download
the 15 races.

Today's file is 125k; tomorrow's 191k.

Contrast that with TRB's download times - Saturday's results, 222k in 10
seconds, tomorrow's field and form, 5 files total 310k 5 seconds.

I realize there is a difference in that TRB's are ready-packed whereas the
DO files are selected from the 700 available, but that should not be taking
so long, and did not in the past. In 25minutes on Everest day markets change
a lot!

LBL 

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing On Behalf Of i8work at aussiebb.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 18:43 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

(yes, he's back!!!)

"they are now too busy being millionaires to be worried about subscribers."

Having the same problem with DO myself - support has become a joke..........

*wanted them to fix their consistently missing meetings on the gear changes
page esp on Sat, response "AAP aren't sending them on time", have a long
term contact in AAP who (summarised) said "rubbish".

*continue to use Flash to power the Premium DO application despite it
(Flash) being due for termination in Dec as it is too insecure - every time
it updates I have trouble with DO refusing to work cos Flash is not up to
date - have various blocks on my PC as Flash is so insecure and so it
doesn't update thus breaking DO - support had no idea, ended up having to
fix it myself (partially, but at least it has become functional for me
again).

They desperately need some competition as they have developed "we are a
monopoly so screw you" disease.

Laurie


On 2020-02-26 15:58, L.B.Loveday wrote:
> Ken,
> 
> Am I missing something in thinking it should be Neds, not me, that 
> "_should keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help 
> further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly_."?
> 
> After all it is virtually impossible that I was the only one affected 
> and Neds should have a direct line to the top at DO. I used to get 
> fair responses from Karl Begg, and excellent from his brother Dave, 
> but as Greg Conway pointed out, they are now too busy being 
> millionaires to be worried about subscribers.
> 
> LBL

_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com




From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Feb 26 22:52:00 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 22:52:00 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
Message-ID: <001101d5ec9b$299cb700$7cd62500$@ozemail.com.au>

I've been getting quick replies and useful help from Scott Gooley at DO, but
I don't know how far up the chain he reaches.

I don't know much about telecommunications, but I do know the download times
for DO have jumped. I presume that's due to increased traffic (surely
they've not downgraded their capacity?), and presume that could be rectified
by paying more for more capacity and, or, using buffering "tricks" that Greg
Conroy has outlined - how hard is it to work out that on Saturday
mid-afternoon downloads are likely to be Oz major meetings, not tomorrow
morning's Derby lane Greyhounds or that night's Ipswich
Greyhounds..........?

It took me 3:34 just now to download tomorrow's prices for 5 meetings and
5:04 for today's 7. On Everest day it was taking me 25 minutes to download
the 15 races.

Today's file is 125k; tomorrow's 191k.

Contrast that with TRB's download times - Saturday's results, 222k in 10
seconds, tomorrow's field and form, 5 files total 310k 5 seconds.

I realize there is a difference in that TRB's are ready-packed whereas the
DO files are selected from the 700 available, but that should not be taking
so long, and did not in the past. In 25minutes on Everest day markets change
a lot!

LBL 

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing On Behalf Of i8work at aussiebb.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 18:43 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

(yes, he's back!!!)

"they are now too busy being millionaires to be worried about subscribers."

Having the same problem with DO myself - support has become a joke..........

*wanted them to fix their consistently missing meetings on the gear changes
page esp on Sat, response "AAP aren't sending them on time", have a long
term contact in AAP who (summarised) said "rubbish".

*continue to use Flash to power the Premium DO application despite it
(Flash) being due for termination in Dec as it is too insecure - every time
it updates I have trouble with DO refusing to work cos Flash is not up to
date - have various blocks on my PC as Flash is so insecure and so it
doesn't update thus breaking DO - support had no idea, ended up having to
fix it myself (partially, but at least it has become functional for me
again).

They desperately need some competition as they have developed "we are a
monopoly so screw you" disease.

Laurie


On 2020-02-26 15:58, L.B.Loveday wrote:
> Ken,
> 
> Am I missing something in thinking it should be Neds, not me, that 
> "_should keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help 
> further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly_."?
> 
> After all it is virtually impossible that I was the only one affected 
> and Neds should have a direct line to the top at DO. I used to get 
> fair responses from Karl Begg, and excellent from his brother Dave, 
> but as Greg Conway pointed out, they are now too busy being 
> millionaires to be worried about subscribers.
> 
> LBL

_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com




From conceptracing at bigpond.com  Thu Feb 27 14:12:32 2020
From: conceptracing at bigpond.com (conceptracing at bigpond.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 11:12:32 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.
In-Reply-To: <00ce01d5ec69$c186b610$44942230$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <006801d5ec2a$3898feb0$a9cafc10$@ozemail.com.au>	<000501d5ec30$1730b0f0$459212d0$@bigpond.com>
	<00ce01d5ec69$c186b610$44942230$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <001c01d5ed1b$c145e1a0$43d1a4e0$@bigpond.com>

Len, yes, well that?s probably asking a bit much knowing how these people conduct their business.

 

Looks like your going to have to rattle D.O.?s cage yourself??I reckon I can predict the response??

 

Good Luck

 

KB

 

From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 1:58 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Ken,

 

Am I missing something in thinking it should be Neds, not me, that "should keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly."?

 

After all it is virtually impossible that I was the only one affected and Neds should have a direct line to the top at DO. I used to get fair responses from Karl Begg, and excellent from his brother Dave, but as Greg Conway pointed out, they are now too busy being millionaires to be worried about subscribers.

 

LBL

 

 

 ?

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Ken Blake
Sent: Wednesday, 26 February 2020 10:06 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Len?well, it will be interesting to see Dynamic Odds stance in this situation.

 

Neds response seems to be somewhat contradictory. On one line they state they cannot cancel bets via live chat, then, tell you the operator should have directed you to live chat ????

 

KB

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 6:24 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com <mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Playup as per normal; Neds' final word.

 

Blatant disregard of the MBL - par for the course for Playup, but there is no point in complaining other than to inconvenience the cheats.

 

Time stamped 9:00:03, 3 seconds past the witching hour, so I asked for $145, being to win $797.50 (MBL mandates $800). But there are enough bookmakers who abide by the law (and in the case of Sportsbet, TopSport and TAB, go beyond their mandated obligation) to keep me off the park bench - just. 

 

 



 

 

 

Neds came up with this:

 

Hi Leonard,?

 ?

Thank you for contacting Neds. ?

 ?

I do apologise for the issue, however dynamic odds is a 3rd party provider and we cannot be responsible for their site.  ?

?

You could have called up to have the bet checked and we could have assisted in cancelling the bet as we cannot cancel bets via live chat or email.  In any instance the operator should have replied to you and requested you to call in via live chat.?

?

I have spoken to my supervisor and unfortunately as the race has been completed we cannot cancel the bet, however he has applied $150 worth of bonus cash to your account for you to use.  I know this isn't as good as getting your funds back but we hope this will be sufficient to show our sincere apologies for the issue.?

?

You should also keep on at Dynamic Odds to see if they will be able to help further as it was their platform that placed the bet incorrectly.?

 ?

 ?

Should you have any questions we will be pleased to assist you. ?

 ?

Kind Regards,?

 ?

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Fri Feb 28 09:54:40 2020
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 09:54:40 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] talking through my pocket re Pakenham 7 27/2
Message-ID: <008201d5edc0$e697a7e0$b3c6f7a0$@ozemail.com.au>

I'm not much of a race watcher, but I was back from the pub and had backed
Kaimu for the place so I watched Pakenham 7.

Stewards report:

Kaimu Approaching the 200m was bumped on the hindquarters by Sticking Point
and shortly after was severely hampered when buffeted between Sticking Point
and Raptures which had shifted in abruptly despite the efforts of its rider.
In the circumstances, as Stewards were of the view that the incident was not
the fault of any one rider, Stewards took no direct action, other than to
advise all riders to exercise care in similar circumstances.

"Bumped on the hindquarters", then belted by a horse "which had shifted in
abruptly". Ok, " was not the fault of any one rider", but why were ALL
riders advised " to exercise care in similar circumstances"? Why was Kaimu's
jockey, BMelham, whom I have rated in the top 7% of jockeys, included in
those advised? What should he do in future - sit 4 wide all the way to avoid
horses bumping into his ride's rear or ducking in on its front?

 

LBL

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