From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Fri Nov  1 00:28:31 2019
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2019 21:28:31 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Principle of Maximum Confusion/ROBERTA etc - a system
Message-ID: <000b01d58fef$1739fe50$45adfaf0$@bigpond.com>

This was written about earlier. It is a way of determining if the race
favourite is worthy of the crown, or whether another, or others, have better
qualifications but just do not have the money support, which matters a bit,
or a lot sometimes.

ROBERTA

Re-consider the favourite when

It and others have been involved in a similar finish (say 1st and third, 2nd
and third)
All runners are male or the favourite is female - otherwise no females are
considered
There is less than 4 kg between contenders in this race
Days since last start not greater than 29 (for any runner in contention)
All have raced at todays track, or none have. If the favourite has NOT raced
here, eliminate the race.
The favourite is a sprinter, and this is a sprint race, or the favourite is
a distance winner (for longer races) or it is a sprinter who won last start.
(Three elements to consider). 

Principles of Maximum Confusion

Reconsider the favourite when:

It, and others, show a race within 29 days
Have raced at todays track, or neither has
There is less than 4 kg in weights between contenders
Either are male, of the favourite is female
Both last start finishes were similar, the same, or the favourite was
inferior to others at its last finish.
For sprints, the favourite is a sprinter, for distance races (routes in the
notes)the favourite is a router
(its last three races were routes) or it is a sprinter who won its last
race.

Another method, from literature, to fine down or include runners, is to
compare the favourite price against other runners.

(a) Divide the price of the favourite into the displayed prices of the other
runners. 
(b) The resulting figures then show a better indication of the strength of
your runner (either the favourite or another)
Eg Seymour R8 today
Favourite  was 4 Made Me Shiver and in this field had one advantage,
Prebble. It was $2.30
Another was Soaring Eagle, with 3 pluses more than the favourite, horse
details, earnings and dividend algorithm 
in  addition it was 5 marks better on form over last 4 outings. It was $4.60
- so rated 2 (4.60/2.30) and calculated as 2.50 to win
It was 2.50 place (7 runners)
Another was Jamaican Hurry, first on form, and 2nd on other benchmarks. It
was 6.90 (/ 2.30 - scores 3) and 3.00 on calculations
nd 3.20 place.
The only other real contender was 2 Carwelkin, who was 10.30 at the jump
(10.30/2.30 = 4.48) and not considered.

The favourite was beaten, by better qualified runners, and although there
were two dividends, total $5+ that was maybe the
best that it could be milked for.
Summary we had a scoreline of 1,2 and three and an examination using form,
horse performance, pm and dividend shows
revealed we had runner(s) better qualified than the favourite, today.

Gosford race 7, using the tests mentioned showed the favourite seemed to be
unbeatable, and so it was. It had good scores all round.

Bunbury race 8 was a similar scenario, good form scores around the
favourite, and it won, short. Next best was second at 1.70
and it had form scores 2nd to the winner.

Hope it makes sense.

Raining and freezing here, which may mean rain at Flemington in a few days. 

Cheers

Tony




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com




From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Fri Nov  1 06:22:34 2019
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 06:22:34 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Principle of Maximum Confusion/ROBERTA etc - a system
In-Reply-To: <000b01d58fef$1739fe50$45adfaf0$@bigpond.com>
References: <000b01d58fef$1739fe50$45adfaf0$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b0crLwakbatawHA5mS29Aixb03yNme26iV4nvzC-TNNfg@mail.gmail.com>

Where is "here", Tony?

On Fri., 1 Nov. 2019, 12:29 am Tony Moffat, <tonymoffat at bigpond.com> wrote:

> This was written about earlier. It is a way of determining if the race
> favourite is worthy of the crown, or whether another, or others, have
> better
> qualifications but just do not have the money support, which matters a bit,
> or a lot sometimes.
>
> ROBERTA
>
> Re-consider the favourite when
>
> It and others have been involved in a similar finish (say 1st and third,
> 2nd
> and third)
> All runners are male or the favourite is female - otherwise no females are
> considered
> There is less than 4 kg between contenders in this race
> Days since last start not greater than 29 (for any runner in contention)
> All have raced at todays track, or none have. If the favourite has NOT
> raced
> here, eliminate the race.
> The favourite is a sprinter, and this is a sprint race, or the favourite is
> a distance winner (for longer races) or it is a sprinter who won last
> start.
> (Three elements to consider).
>
> Principles of Maximum Confusion
>
> Reconsider the favourite when:
>
> It, and others, show a race within 29 days
> Have raced at todays track, or neither has
> There is less than 4 kg in weights between contenders
> Either are male, of the favourite is female
> Both last start finishes were similar, the same, or the favourite was
> inferior to others at its last finish.
> For sprints, the favourite is a sprinter, for distance races (routes in the
> notes)the favourite is a router
> (its last three races were routes) or it is a sprinter who won its last
> race.
>
> Another method, from literature, to fine down or include runners, is to
> compare the favourite price against other runners.
>
> (a) Divide the price of the favourite into the displayed prices of the
> other
> runners.
> (b) The resulting figures then show a better indication of the strength of
> your runner (either the favourite or another)
> Eg Seymour R8 today
> Favourite  was 4 Made Me Shiver and in this field had one advantage,
> Prebble. It was $2.30
> Another was Soaring Eagle, with 3 pluses more than the favourite, horse
> details, earnings and dividend algorithm
> in  addition it was 5 marks better on form over last 4 outings. It was
> $4.60
> - so rated 2 (4.60/2.30) and calculated as 2.50 to win
> It was 2.50 place (7 runners)
> Another was Jamaican Hurry, first on form, and 2nd on other benchmarks. It
> was 6.90 (/ 2.30 - scores 3) and 3.00 on calculations
> nd 3.20 place.
> The only other real contender was 2 Carwelkin, who was 10.30 at the jump
> (10.30/2.30 = 4.48) and not considered.
>
> The favourite was beaten, by better qualified runners, and although there
> were two dividends, total $5+ that was maybe the
> best that it could be milked for.
> Summary we had a scoreline of 1,2 and three and an examination using form,
> horse performance, pm and dividend shows
> revealed we had runner(s) better qualified than the favourite, today.
>
> Gosford race 7, using the tests mentioned showed the favourite seemed to be
> unbeatable, and so it was. It had good scores all round.
>
> Bunbury race 8 was a similar scenario, good form scores around the
> favourite, and it won, short. Next best was second at 1.70
> and it had form scores 2nd to the winner.
>
> Hope it makes sense.
>
> Raining and freezing here, which may mean rain at Flemington in a few
> days.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Fri Nov  1 08:24:24 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 08:24:24 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] FW:
Message-ID: <009301d59031$915cc130$b4164390$@ozemail.com.au>


Melbourne Cup bookies' tears runneth over? You bet they do


Melbourne Cup hopeful Prince Of Arran during trackwork at Werribee on
Thursday. Picture: AAP

*	exclusive


John Stensholt <https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/John+Stensholt> 


Editor, The List

You would not bet on it.

Usually the Melbourne Cup carnival, which starts on Saturday, and spring
racing in general are when bookmakers are at the top of the game, making
huge profits from millions of bets by punters big and small.

This year, the bookies say they won't make money at all. In fact, they're
budgeting to lose money and, when pressed, admit they'd prefer punters put
their hard-earned on US basketball than have a Melbourne Cup wager.

The NBA made international headlines on Thursday when Australian superstar
Ben Simmons <https://www.theaustralian.com.au/search-results?q=ben+simmons+>
was involved in an on-court brawl in a game between his Philadelphia 76ers
and the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Better odds for US basketball . Australian Ben Simmons, rear centre, during
the on-court brawl in the NBA. Picture: AFP

But as local attention turns to Saturday's Derby Day and Tuesday's Melbourne
Cup, BetEasy chief executive Matt Tripp blames the drop-off in profits on an
increase in government regulation and taxes his corporate bookmakers and
their rivals are paying at a state level. In particular, he says, a
relatively new point-of-consumption tax said to cost bookies about $270m
annually is to blame for the previously -unheard-of situation.

"I can't believe I'm saying this but it is just too hard to make money this
year," Mr Tripp said. "I used to look forward to the spring carnival but now
I just want to get through it. It is not sustainable. Something needs to be
done."

While no one is going to feel sorry for a losing bookie, -especially given
just about all corporate bookmakers are now foreign-owned, there are big
implications for the racing industry.

Less betting, or "turnover" in racing vernacular, means less money paying
for the huge industry that is racing and the employment it creates. Falling
profits will lead to more mergers in the -wagering industry and less
competition - and therefore potentially worse prices - for punters.

Melbourne Racing Club chairman Peter Le Grand says: "The racing industry
makes its money off turnover so if that is suffering and profits are down
and that keeps going . then it is a disaster for racing".

One bookmaker says 75 per cent of new bets placed are on sports, such as the
NBA, AFL and NRL. "NBA is a sport that young people understand and there are
plenty of betting options for them," says one racing administrator. The
bookies also make more money on sports compared with racing given they are
more lightly taxed.

Chief Ironside takes a sand roll during a trackwork session at the Werribee
International Horse Centre in Werribee on Thursday.

It is a situation Dean Shannon, the CEO of Ladbrokes in Australia, can
understand. "I definitely want to see people betting on racing, I love
racing," he said. "But when you look at it, there are the overseas sports
that we pay less product fees on that are popular and more profitable for
us."

Mr Le Grand says a proper -assessment needs to be made at the end of the
spring carnival.

While turnover was down 20 per cent at the MRC's recent Caulfield Cup
carnival, it had been up 17 per cent the year -before. But he says racing
and government authorities have to be vigilant about shoring up racing's
popularity at a time when the sport has been hit by a series of scandals.

What seems certain is racing authorities and the corporate, or mostly
digital-only, bookmakers will combine forces to lobby state governments to
lessen the impact of point-of-consumption taxes - paid on bets taken in that
jurisdiction and adopted in every state and territory after being introduced
in South Australia in 2017.  (By the Treasurer "Turbo Tom", a politician
dumber than Hanson-Young, -LBL)

In Victoria there is an 8 per cent point-of-consumption tax, though Racing
Victoria also charges product fees, or fees payable to take bets on races in
those states, that are higher for big races. In NSW, the tax is 10 per cent
but fees charged by racing authorities can be lower.

Overall, it has led to bookmakers putting less focus on racing for its
customers, which in turn means fewer bets on the sport, which therefore
could hurt its funding.

Barni Evans, chief executive of Sportsbet, the biggest corporate bookmaker,
said: "The introduction of POC taxes, on top of the existing racefields and
product fees, is having a significant impact on bookmakers' profitability.
This has contributed to bookmakers -reducing marketing, which is -likely
impacting turnover on --various racing codes."

Mr Evans said Australian punters had "never had it so good" when it came to
the incentives and value they received from corporate bookmakers, such as
free bets or money-back offers.

"This has driven the vast majority of the increase in turnover on racing in
recent years," he said.

"If bookmakers can no longer afford to sustain the same marketing investment
because of increased tax, then turnover on racing may suffer.

"It's critical that governments and racing bodies have regard to this to
ensure the setting of tax rates provide for a sustainable -wagering sector
to support a healthy and -vibrant racing industry."

Sportsbet is understood to have cut its marketing spending by more than 10
per cent this year and earlier this year warned the taxes would see $100m
cut from its Australian profits.

While the Victorian and NSW governments are expected to re-examine their
respective tax rates there are not high expectations of a tweak. "It is
pretty hard to get governments to hand money back," one racing executive
said.

Chief Ironside walks back during trackwork at the Werribee International
Horse Centre in Werribee, Melbourne.

Tabcorp's managing director of wagering and media, Adam Rytenskild, said
consumer spending habits could also be a factor pushing turnover on racing
down. "The economy has been a bit soft and the results have been
bookie-friendly," he said.

He also sees a softening market for his bookmaker rivals as an -opportunity
for what is the country's biggest wagering outfit given it operates both the
traditional -retail tote betting and online digital wagering.

"I'm not interested in excuses and the market being tough, I want us to be
more innovative and our brand to be elevated more than any ever before," Mr
Rytenskild said.

Tabcorp, Mr Rytenskild said, provides more than $1bn in funding to racing
across Australia annually. But the popularity of Tabcorp's retail offering
is declining. Like other industries, more punters prefer to bet on their
phones rather than in a bricks-and-mortar outlet.

Tabcorp is the joint-venture partner of the Victorian racing -industry and
its biggest source of funding through its exclusive -licence to run retail
and tote betting in the state. But Racing Victoria's accounts for the past
financial year reveal a 6 per cent slump in revenue from parimutuel betting
turnover. One way Tabcorp is trying to arrest that is by having
notifications for its smartphone app enabled to send customers special
offers when they walk into a TAB venue or pub.

"We are looking at innovation of the tote and some new products," Mr
Rytenskild said.

Yet he also admits that American sports are increasingly popular with
Tabcorp customers. The company has moved to sign official wagering
partnership deals with the National Basketball -Association and National
Football League this year.

"As long as they are betting with the TAB and they are betting on whatever
they are interested in, then that is fine," he said. "Racing is part of our
DNA and is much bigger than sport at the moment."

A cursory glance at the big bookmakers' advertising campaigns shows how
important sport has become compared with racing, with plenty of big offers
for NBA markets and local leagues such as the AFL and NRL.

 

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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Fri Nov  1 11:53:06 2019
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2019 08:53:06 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Principle of Maximum Confusion/ROBERTA etc - a system
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b0crLwakbatawHA5mS29Aixb03yNme26iV4nvzC-TNNfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000b01d58fef$1739fe50$45adfaf0$@bigpond.com>
	<CAJfP4b0crLwakbatawHA5mS29Aixb03yNme26iV4nvzC-TNNfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005201d5904e$b9f8d940$2dea8bc0$@bigpond.com>

22 Dean Street

Pemberton WA  6230

 

We have had this place for a while and moved here after retirement ? 302 weeks yesterday. Still raining here

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2019 3:23 AM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Principle of Maximum Confusion/ROBERTA etc - a system

 

Where is "here", Tony?

 


ROBERTA


Principles of Maximum Confusion


Another method, from literature, to fine down or include runners, is to
compare the favourite price against other runners.

(a) Divide the price of the favourite into the displayed prices of the other
runners. 

Raining and freezing here, which may mean rain at Flemington in a few days. 

Cheers

Tony




-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com <mailto:Racing at ausrace.com> 
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com

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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Sun Nov  3 12:30:23 2019
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 12:30:23 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Rob Waterhouse
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b3X+gSEfQMAVTd_n8Wh5H3Ti01wV2hCJS7vgV6qyQRctA@mail.gmail.com>

Rob,
just saw you interviewed on Racing.com and instantly admired your titfer
tat. (hat for the uninitiated).
May I ask where you got it? I want one too!
All the best,
Nick

PS. Only caught the back end of it but did connections draw their own
marble for the Cup?
Don't like this gimmick at all.
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From robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com  Sun Nov  3 15:23:52 2019
From: robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com (Robbie Waterhouse)
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 15:23:52 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Rob Waterhouse
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b3X+gSEfQMAVTd_n8Wh5H3Ti01wV2hCJS7vgV6qyQRctA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJfP4b3X+gSEfQMAVTd_n8Wh5H3Ti01wV2hCJS7vgV6qyQRctA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00c201d591fe$7fc05710$7f410530$@robbiewaterhouse.com>

Locks in London

 

We one on cold wet race days!

 

From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, 3 November 2019 12:30 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Rob Waterhouse

 

Rob, 

just saw you interviewed on Racing.com and instantly admired your titfer tat. (hat for the uninitiated).

May I ask where you got it? I want one too!

All the best,

Nick

 

PS. Only caught the back end of it but did connections draw their own marble for the Cup?

Don't like this gimmick at all. 

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Thu Nov  7 19:30:36 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 19:30:36 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Your ABC and the MC
Message-ID: <000401d59545$a1512770$e3f37650$@ozemail.com.au>

ABC journalist Osman Faruqi wrote:

"On Sunrise this morning, one of the guests literally said the Melbourne Cup
result was good because the winning horse 'grew here, not flew here'. "The
culture is so racism-poisoned that we're being xenophobic about racehorses."

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Nov 12 06:29:47 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 06:29:47 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Tatts (TAB) join the welchers
Message-ID: <000e01d598c6$61717630$24546290$@ozemail.com.au>

Tatt's response to my clearly articulated and documented email (below) was
their usual pro-forma:

***********

Unfortunately your issue is not one easily solved through email. 

We are open 24/7 so please call our Customer Service Team on 1800 823 888
anytime for further assistance. 
*********

To which I replied:

**********

"Easily" or not - and to me it seems very easy - my issue can be "solved
through email", by putting in writing why you did not pay my bets as listed.
One short sentence is all that would require.

 

That way I have a provable record of what reason(s) you gave, unlike a phone
call. Besides which, I am old, slow of thinking and hard of hearing and will
NEVER again subject myself to the possibility of being spoken down to by a
half-smart, know-little anonymous call-centre person.

 

As you refuse to give a written answer, I will start the complaints process.

*********

Smallish bikkies, I know, but they need to be called to account.

 

 

 

Yesterday you advertised: 

 



 

"Available to SA Residents only. First Fixed Price win bet placed with SATAB
Account only."

 

Which I am:

 



 

There were terms and conditions for "Past the Post Payout", but none for the
"All Races Run 2nd or 3rd".

 

Yet you have not paid my bets on the following horses that ran 2nd or 3rd:







 

Regards,

 

L.B.Loveday

 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Nov 12 07:57:54 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 07:57:54 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Killer horses!
Message-ID: <002701d598d2$b0bf0340$123d09c0$@ozemail.com.au>

Horses killed more people in Australia in recent years than all venomous
animals combined, research has shown.

The University of Melbourne's Dr Ronelle Welton examined hospital admissions
data and coronial records.

>From 2000 to 2013, horses were responsible for 74 deaths.

Bees and other stinging insects were the next most dangerous, causing 27
deaths, followed by snakes, which also claimed 27 lives but landed fewer
people in hospital.

Spiders were not responsible for any deaths during that time, the research
showed.

 

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From seanmac4321 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 12 08:56:44 2019
From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren)
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2019 07:56:44 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Tatts (TAB) join the welchers
In-Reply-To: <000e01d598c6$61717630$24546290$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <000e01d598c6$61717630$24546290$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAOBDE-T=9=dO2qCSovUm8VhGysEzO1yvYP=nSpEe4cKa0Ri0Ww@mail.gmail.com>

gobsmacked ..... i see it but i simply don't believe it!

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 5:30 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> Tatt's response to my clearly articulated and documented email (below) was
> their usual pro-forma:
>
> ***********
>
> Unfortunately your issue is not one easily solved through email.
>
> We are open 24/7 so please call our Customer Service Team on 1800 823 888
> anytime for further assistance.
> *********
>
> To which I replied:
>
> **********
>
> "Easily" or not - and to me it seems very easy - my issue can be "solved
> through email", by putting in writing why you did not pay my bets as
> listed. One short sentence is all that would require.
>
>
>
> That way I have a provable record of what reason(s) you gave, unlike a
> phone call. Besides which, I am old, slow of thinking and hard of hearing
> and will NEVER again subject myself to the possibility of being spoken down
> to by a half-smart, know-little anonymous call-centre person.
>
>
>
> As you refuse to give a written answer, I will start the complaints
> process.
>
> *********
>
> Smallish bikkies, I know, but they need to be called to account.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yesterday you advertised:
>
>
>
>
>
> "Available to SA Residents only. First Fixed Price win bet placed with
> SATAB Account only."
>
>
>
> Which I am:
>
>
>
>
>
> There were terms and conditions for "Past the Post Payout", but none for
> the "All Races Run 2nd or 3rd".
>
>
>
> Yet you have not paid my bets on the following horses that ran 2nd or 3rd:
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> L.B.Loveday
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Thu Nov 14 12:39:46 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:39:46 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Tatts (TAB) join the welchers
In-Reply-To: <CAOBDE-T=9=dO2qCSovUm8VhGysEzO1yvYP=nSpEe4cKa0Ri0Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000e01d598c6$61717630$24546290$@ozemail.com.au>
	<CAOBDE-T=9=dO2qCSovUm8VhGysEzO1yvYP=nSpEe4cKa0Ri0Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002e01d59a8c$659cee20$30d6ca60$@ozemail.com.au>

They gave this rationalisation:

 

A review of your account shows that you have restrictions that will prevent you from receiving our promotional offers and being able to use our cash function.  These functions still show on your account when placing bets however you will not recieve [sic] the benefit.

I call that misleading advertising, but of course the ACCC won't touch bookmakers.

 

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of sean mclaren
Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2019 8:57 AM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Tatts (TAB) join the welchers

 

gobsmacked ..... i see it but i simply don't believe it!

 

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 5:30 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au <mailto:lloveday at ozemail.com.au> > wrote:

Tatt's response to my clearly articulated and documented email (below) was their usual pro-forma:

***********

Unfortunately your issue is not one easily solved through email. 

We are open 24/7 so please call our Customer Service Team on 1800 823 888 anytime for further assistance. 
*********

To which I replied:

**********

"Easily" or not - and to me it seems very easy - my issue can be "solved through email", by putting in writing why you did not pay my bets as listed. One short sentence is all that would require.

 

That way I have a provable record of what reason(s) you gave, unlike a phone call. Besides which, I am old, slow of thinking and hard of hearing and will NEVER again subject myself to the possibility of being spoken down to by a half-smart, know-little anonymous call-centre person.

 

As you refuse to give a written answer, I will start the complaints process.

*********

Smallish bikkies, I know, but they need to be called to account.

 

 

 

Yesterday you advertised: 

 



 

"Available to SA Residents only. First Fixed Price win bet placed with SATAB Account only."

 

Which I am:

 



 

There were terms and conditions for "Past the Post Payout", but none for the "All Races Run 2nd or 3rd".

 

Yet you have not paid my bets on the following horses that ran 2nd or 3rd:







 

Regards,

 

L.B.Loveday

 

_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com <mailto:Racing at ausrace.com> 
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com

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From seanmac4321 at gmail.com  Thu Nov 14 13:03:22 2019
From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:03:22 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] Tatts (TAB) join the welchers
In-Reply-To: <002e01d59a8c$659cee20$30d6ca60$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <000e01d598c6$61717630$24546290$@ozemail.com.au>
	<CAOBDE-T=9=dO2qCSovUm8VhGysEzO1yvYP=nSpEe4cKa0Ri0Ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<002e01d59a8c$659cee20$30d6ca60$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAOBDE-RGAsBV7bdrj3kKRPaxm=191GsvLt0gCgM4X6fOxUK38A@mail.gmail.com>

Len
that's crap.
and i agree misleading.
i just don't know why these corporates haven't been cleaned up.
a code of conduct.
fall out of line, then you can't take a bet.
they seem to operate according to their own agenda.
everyone wants increased turnover.
but nobody wants to create a fair playing field.
some of the Corporates/TAB's practices with software is also fraudulent.
you click on a price, you expect to see the same number on entry , and it
changes on the spot to a lower number.
you put on a wager and the hourglass comes up, time delay and your bet is
rejected.
it's sad that bookmakers can't simply be bookmakers and make a book.
cheers sean





On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 11:40 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

> They gave this rationalisation:
>
>
>
> A review of your account shows that you have restrictions that will
> prevent you from receiving our promotional offers and being able to use our
> cash function.  These functions still show on your account when placing
> bets however you will not recieve [sic] the benefit.
>
> I call that misleading advertising, but of course the ACCC won't touch
> bookmakers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of *sean mclaren
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 12 November 2019 8:57 AM
> *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Tatts (TAB) join the welchers
>
>
>
> gobsmacked ..... i see it but i simply don't believe it!
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 5:30 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> Tatt's response to my clearly articulated and documented email (below) was
> their usual pro-forma:
>
> ***********
>
> Unfortunately your issue is not one easily solved through email.
>
> We are open 24/7 so please call our Customer Service Team on 1800 823 888
> anytime for further assistance.
> *********
>
> To which I replied:
>
> **********
>
> "Easily" or not - and to me it seems very easy - my issue can be "solved
> through email", by putting in writing why you did not pay my bets as
> listed. One short sentence is all that would require.
>
>
>
> That way I have a provable record of what reason(s) you gave, unlike a
> phone call. Besides which, I am old, slow of thinking and hard of hearing
> and will NEVER again subject myself to the possibility of being spoken down
> to by a half-smart, know-little anonymous call-centre person.
>
>
>
> As you refuse to give a written answer, I will start the complaints
> process.
>
> *********
>
> Smallish bikkies, I know, but they need to be called to account.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yesterday you advertised:
>
>
>
>
>
> "Available to SA Residents only. First Fixed Price win bet placed with
> SATAB Account only."
>
>
>
> Which I am:
>
>
>
>
>
> There were terms and conditions for "Past the Post Payout", but none for
> the "All Races Run 2nd or 3rd".
>
>
>
> Yet you have not paid my bets on the following horses that ran 2nd or 3rd:
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> L.B.Loveday
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Fri Nov 15 07:25:31 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 07:25:31 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] (no subject)
Message-ID: <000001d59b29$a9eaa7f0$fdbff7d0$@ozemail.com.au>

TopSport have been advertising:

 



 

So I asked for $100 @ 13.0 at Gundagai, not big, not small.

 

Knocked back to $45 - they have the right to do so, but why the crap? I
guess *Terms and Conditions apply" means "As long as you undertake to lose"!

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From seanmac4321 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 15 09:55:38 2019
From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2019 08:55:38 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <000001d59b29$a9eaa7f0$fdbff7d0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <000001d59b29$a9eaa7f0$fdbff7d0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAOBDE-TziuEh36C8ffed4FpQUTfKC3kDn3M_8oDOu29=Re-SKQ@mail.gmail.com>

excuse the language Len, same shit different day.

On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 6:25 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> TopSport have been advertising:
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image001.png at 01D59B83.DDD0D710]
>
>
>
> So I asked for $100 @ 13.0 at Gundagai, not big, not small.
>
>
>
> Knocked back to $45 - they have the right to do so, but why the crap? I
> guess *Terms and Conditions apply" means "As long as you undertake to lose"!
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Sat Nov 16 19:23:59 2019
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 16:23:59 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Philanthropy - a system
Message-ID: <000601d59c57$32f93ba0$98ebb2e0$@bigpond.com>

This cost $40 and a stamped self-addressed envelope - it had to be a manila
C4 (9'' x 12") - so you bought two, addressed one (actually both) and put
stamps on both, then waited. 
Mine took weeks although the cheque was banked within 4 days I recall. I
mean I seriously felt I had been robbed or something, Illy whacked maybe (it
is a thing )

S/he wrote: "The tipster is the revered person on racedays. Their choices
govern the choices of every punter, and because of this the price, the
divends (it is spelt this way) are affected. Their choices
cause their decisions to be supported, those runners are over supported to a
greater or lesser degree. They choose three horses that will win, all things
considered, including the involvement of their choice! (whatever) but they
are often wrong, and certainly no better than the law of averages (again,
whatever). This plan shows that the tipster can be ignored most often
although their nominations for winning can lead us to a divend, either a win
or a place at odds. It is the odds that make this plan succeed, and not the
5/4, evens, 10/9 type and certainly not the first three in the market which
is where their tips for winning the race are centred.

There are 7 paragraphs of further ambiguity.

Now this one may have a semblance of credence, street cred, because it is
similar (although not the same) to Wizard Plan 88 - yes, The Wizard had over
200 systems, often centred around their own maths. 

Simply, choose your tipster, then take the longest priced of their
selections, often 3 back then, now four more often, an use that as your
'basis' and now include the next two in the betting but outside your
tipsters choices. So you have three picks, one from your man of the hour,
and the two others chosen from the first 5 or so in the betting order.
Ambiguous, yes isn't it?

There are no staking suggestions, nothing to suggest how to back these. The
results (from 1944) show a mixture of place and win 'divens'.

I have the earlier version, unnamed, but the entity 'Wrangler' is mentioned
prominently several times. C Carey had a staff member with the nom de plume
'Senior Wrangler' so it might be him (or his son)

In a subsequent resurrection the system is named 'Philantrophy' - why is not
stated, but you now need nothing else to bring to the fight with the old
'foe' - presumably the bookmaker although that is not stated either.

Today 16/11- tipster = Mathew Hill
Sandown Guineas 11,1,2,4 - take 2, add 10(winner), 9
Heffernan Stakes 3,4,1,7 - take 7, add 9 (winner),5
Zipping Classic 6,9,1,2 - take 9, add 5 (winner) 10 (2nd)
Summoned Stakes 11,1,2,7 - take 2(winner), add 5,3 (2nd)
Eclipse Stakes 4,7,1,6 - take 7, add 3, 8 (Loss)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newcastle - or Nuke-astle as the lady on internet Tab radio says and asks
where is it then?
R6- 3165 - take 6, add 7 (winner),10
R7- 2716 -take 1,add 12,10 (winner)
R8- 7532 -take 2 (winner), add 4,1
R9 -loss
=====================================

Cheers

Tony





From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Nov 20 13:39:13 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 13:39:13 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Sounds fantastic, but...
Message-ID: <009101d59f4b$b216cd20$16446760$@ozemail.com.au>

"I'm not sure he even saw me and I was in no real state to get out of the
way. As he went past he caught my chin with his elbow and there was a crack
like a branch had snapped. I felt an incredibly sharp pain and was really
frightened for what had happened, as I was sure I'd broken my neck again.

"The friend I was with heard the crack too and had to grab hold of me as I
was headed for the floor. It took a few seconds to gather myself and to
realise I hadn't done any more damage and then a few minutes later and I
stood up straight with no pain for the first time since the accident.

"I'm not a religious man but it was like someone upstairs had said to the
bloke 'Go and fix him up' - and he did.

"I've never had a moment of trouble with my neck from that day onwards.

 

 


The million to one incident that changed the life of dual Melbourne Cup
winning jockey John Letts


He was told he'd never walk, let alone ride again. He went on to win another
Melbourne Cup. But you won't believe the million to one incident that got
him back on his feet.

Craig Cook, The Messenger

Subscriber only

| 

November 20, 2019 8:26am



Million to one: John Letts' remarkable life.

 

John Letts was South Australia's most popular jockey at the peak of his
powers with a Melbourne Cup already in his saddlebag - and it all changed in
an instant. 

A horrific race fall 45 years ago saw 'Lettsy' rushed to hospital where
doctors told him he would never walk again, his career was over and he would
be a cripple for life.

But a million-to-one chance saw the 'Punters Pal' back to his riding best.

It was just another mundane provincial race meeting at Gawler in the summer
of 1974 that would have catastrophic consequences for the then 30-year-old
jockey.



Melbourne model Jasmine Chilcott with John Letts with the Melbourne Cup in
Surfers Paradise earlier this year. Picture: Glenn Hampson

He was riding a horse called Weneta, and even today you have to remind him
of the name of the horse because he has a complete block about the incident.

"It was the last race of the day and we were travelling nicely in third
behind a couple of leaders when the horse in front had a heart attack at
full speed," he says.

"There was no warning. I had about a hundredth of a second to react and that
wasn't ever going to be enough time.

"Six of us fell and somehow, I ended up under the dead horse. How I got
there I'll never know. That's all I can tell you. Everything else I know
about that day has been told to me by those who were there."

Jockey Michael Domingo rode in the race and was lucky to avoid the carnage.
He sat in the back of the ambulance with Lettsy all the way to the Royal
Adelaide Hospital.

"Mick told me later that the St John's man had told him, 'Your mate's not
too good. He's stopped breathing . there's not much hope,' Letts says.



 

John Letts with his horse Banjo at Flemington. Picture: Stephen Harman

"They had to pump at my chest to start me up again. I've got a vague
recollection of having to gasp for air in the ambulance and then I remember
being wheeled in under the bright hospital lights.

"Well I think it was the hospital lights, or they could have been those
lights people see when they are about to make the final journey because
that's how serious it was."

Gaining consciousness a few days later, John's mother Georgina was holding
his hand when he came around.

She began to explain that he had broken his neck in a fall and the doctors
had told her he would be a quadriplegic.

"That's when I squeezed her hand and she jumped right off her chair," Lettsy
adds.

"The doctor was a bit surprised too and said, well he might not be a
quadriplegic, but he'll probably never regain the use of his legs."

John's injuries were horrific with a smashed rib cage and three fingers.

Most vital of all there was a partial fracture of the odontoid bone which
connects the skull to the spine. If it had split completely it could have
severed his spinal cord. It was all very dicey.

"I couldn't move I just had to lie there for weeks on end with two sandbags
either side of my head to keep it still," he adds.

"One silly move and I would have been wheelchair bound for good."

Recovering in the Royal Adelaide Hospital jockey John Letts listens to the
races on his transistor radio, August 18, 1974.

Riding horses has been Lettsy's life since leaving school at 13 and there
was a good chance they'd be the death of him but he was determined to get
back in the saddle.

He endured almost six months in hospital waiting for his body to heal before
finally being discharged.

He didn't waste any time working on his own rehabilitation. When he first
went in to see the specialist to get a clearance to ride again he was told
it would be at least two years before he could contemplate getting back in
the saddle.

He didn't let on that, despite a heavy brace on his neck and limited
flexibility and movement in his arms, he had already been trotting around on
the back of a pony at that stage.

Remarkably, he still won the state's top rider award for the 1973-74 season
and was photographed in his brace.

What happened next was unseen by doctor and patient but miraculously saw
John back riding in a race within six weeks.

"I was over at Caulfield for a day at the races during the Melbourne
spring," he adds.

"I still had this surgical collar on my neck and wasn't moving too smartly
but at least I was walking which was a big step from where I was seven
months earlier.



Injured jockey John Letts holds the trophy he received as the State's top
rider for the 1973/74 season. Letts received special permission to leave
hospital to attend the ceremony.

l was stood in the betting ring - which I shouldn't have been as a licensed
person - but I didn't think too many would recognise me in my get-up when I
saw this bloke running through the crowd straight at me.

"He looked desperate about getting a bet on and only had eyes for the
bookie's stand he was headed for.

"I'm not sure he even saw me and I was in no real state to get out of the
way. As he went past he caught my chin with his elbow and there was a crack
like a branch had snapped. I felt an incredibly sharp pain and was really
frightened for what had happened, as I was sure I'd broken my neck again.

"The friend I was with heard the crack too and had to grab hold of me as I
was headed for the floor. It took a few seconds to gather myself and to
realise I hadn't done any more damage and then a few minutes later and I
stood up straight with no pain for the first time since the accident.

"I'm not a religious man but it was like someone upstairs had said to the
bloke 'Go and fix him up' - and he did.

"I've never had a moment of trouble with my neck from that day onwards. I'd
love to thank the guy who ran in to me - but I'm sure he'd be totally
unaware he even hit me. I hope he got the bet on - and it won at 50/1."

Racehorse trainer Colin Hayes (left) with Robert Sangster and his wife Susan
and jockey John Letts after winning the 1980 Melbourne Cup on Beldale Ball.

Remarkably John was riding trackwork within a week and just another five
weeks after that was ready to face his demons with a ride in a race.

The venue was Cheltenham racecourse just down the road from where he was
born and where he first learned horses don't have handles.

 

His first ride back was a victory on Red Camellia.

"I could hear the crowd cheering from the time we hit the front all the way
to the line," he says.

"They really wanted me to win and that meant so much and they clapped me all
the way back in and it didn't stop until l jumped off.

"I've never experienced anything like that and it is something I'll never
forget. I'm not an emotional person at all but I'm not too proud to say I
had some tears at that moment.

"It's the only time I've ever shed a tear at a racetrack.

"All I ever wanted to be was a jockey and I was so happy to be back.

"By crashing into me that punter did what the specialists couldn't do. He
cured me. From that day on I knew I was in for big things."

Dual Melbourne Cup winning jockey John Letts holds the cup aloft in the
Kakadu National Park during the Melbourne Cup Tour.

Big things included winning the Melbourne Cup a second time on Beldale Ball
in 1980 after a first win on Piping Lane in 1972.

All in all John Letts, inducted into the Australian Racing Hall of Fame in
2010, won more than 1000 races, before retiring in 1988, after being told he
would never ride again.

 

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From RaceStats at hotmail.com  Wed Nov 20 14:55:17 2019
From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 03:55:17 +0000
Subject: [AusRace] Sounds fantastic, but...
In-Reply-To: <009101d59f4b$b216cd20$16446760$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <009101d59f4b$b216cd20$16446760$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <MN2PR04MB58219230DB3371F7433CC2E5BB4F0@MN2PR04MB5821.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Len,
After his retirement as a jockey, he turned to the trots as a driver where here was involved in a horrific race fall.
The sulky catapulted him into the air and he broke both legs.
He survived that too and went on to interview jockeys on Banjo, before he was replaced several times.
I do miss Lettsy's interviews on Banjo.
Lindsay


From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Wednesday, 20 November 2019 1:39 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List'
Subject: [AusRace] Sounds fantastic, but...


"I'm not sure he even saw me and I was in no real state to get out of the way. As he went past he caught my chin with his elbow and there was a crack like a branch had snapped. I felt an incredibly sharp pain and was really frightened for what had happened, as I was sure I'd broken my neck again.

"The friend I was with heard the crack too and had to grab hold of me as I was headed for the floor. It took a few seconds to gather myself and to realise I hadn't done any more damage and then a few minutes later and I stood up straight with no pain for the first time since the accident.

"I'm not a religious man but it was like someone upstairs had said to the bloke 'Go and fix him up' - and he did.
"I've never had a moment of trouble with my neck from that day onwards.


The million to one incident that changed the life of dual Melbourne Cup winning jockey John Letts

He was told he'd never walk, let alone ride again. He went on to win another Melbourne Cup. But you won't believe the million to one incident that got him back on his feet.
Craig Cook, The Messenger
Subscriber only
|
November 20, 2019 8:26am
[Million to one: John Letts' remarkable life.]
Million to one: John Letts' remarkable life.


John Letts was South Australia's most popular jockey at the peak of his powers with a Melbourne Cup already in his saddlebag - and it all changed in an instant.

A horrific race fall 45 years ago saw 'Lettsy' rushed to hospital where doctors told him he would never walk again, his career was over and he would be a cripple for life.

But a million-to-one chance saw the 'Punters Pal' back to his riding best.

It was just another mundane provincial race meeting at Gawler in the summer of 1974 that would have catastrophic consequences for the then 30-year-old jockey.
[Melbourne model Jasmine Chilcott with John Letts with the Melbourne Cup in Surfers Paradise earlier this year. Picture: Glenn Hampson]
Melbourne model Jasmine Chilcott with John Letts with the Melbourne Cup in Surfers Paradise earlier this year. Picture: Glenn Hampson

He was riding a horse called Weneta, and even today you have to remind him of the name of the horse because he has a complete block about the incident.

"It was the last race of the day and we were travelling nicely in third behind a couple of leaders when the horse in front had a heart attack at full speed," he says.

"There was no warning. I had about a hundredth of a second to react and that wasn't ever going to be enough time.

"Six of us fell and somehow, I ended up under the dead horse. How I got there I'll never know. That's all I can tell you. Everything else I know about that day has been told to me by those who were there."

Jockey Michael Domingo rode in the race and was lucky to avoid the carnage. He sat in the back of the ambulance with Lettsy all the way to the Royal Adelaide Hospital.

"Mick told me later that the St John's man had told him, 'Your mate's not too good. He's stopped breathing ... there's not much hope,' Letts says.
[John Letts with his horse Banjo at Flemington. Picture: Stephen Harman]

John Letts with his horse Banjo at Flemington. Picture: Stephen Harman

"They had to pump at my chest to start me up again. I've got a vague recollection of having to gasp for air in the ambulance and then I remember being wheeled in under the bright hospital lights.

"Well I think it was the hospital lights, or they could have been those lights people see when they are about to make the final journey because that's how serious it was."

Gaining consciousness a few days later, John's mother Georgina was holding his hand when he came around.

She began to explain that he had broken his neck in a fall and the doctors had told her he would be a quadriplegic.

"That's when I squeezed her hand and she jumped right off her chair," Lettsy adds.

"The doctor was a bit surprised too and said, well he might not be a quadriplegic, but he'll probably never regain the use of his legs."

John's injuries were horrific with a smashed rib cage and three fingers.

Most vital of all there was a partial fracture of the odontoid bone which connects the skull to the spine. If it had split completely it could have severed his spinal cord. It was all very dicey.

"I couldn't move I just had to lie there for weeks on end with two sandbags either side of my head to keep it still," he adds.

"One silly move and I would have been wheelchair bound for good."
[Recovering in the Royal Adelaide Hospital jockey John Letts listens to the races on his transistor radio, August 18, 1974.]Recovering in the Royal Adelaide Hospital jockey John Letts listens to the races on his transistor radio, August 18, 1974.

Riding horses has been Lettsy's life since leaving school at 13 and there was a good chance they'd be the death of him but he was determined to get back in the saddle.

He endured almost six months in hospital waiting for his body to heal before finally being discharged.

He didn't waste any time working on his own rehabilitation. When he first went in to see the specialist to get a clearance to ride again he was told it would be at least two years before he could contemplate getting back in the saddle.

He didn't let on that, despite a heavy brace on his neck and limited flexibility and movement in his arms, he had already been trotting around on the back of a pony at that stage.

Remarkably, he still won the state's top rider award for the 1973-74 season and was photographed in his brace.

What happened next was unseen by doctor and patient but miraculously saw John back riding in a race within six weeks.

"I was over at Caulfield for a day at the races during the Melbourne spring," he adds.

"I still had this surgical collar on my neck and wasn't moving too smartly but at least I was walking which was a big step from where I was seven months earlier.
[Injured jockey John Letts holds the trophy he received as the State's top rider for the 1973/74 season. Letts received special permission to leave hospital to attend the ceremony.]
Injured jockey John Letts holds the trophy he received as the State's top rider for the 1973/74 season. Letts received special permission to leave hospital to attend the ceremony.

l was stood in the betting ring - which I shouldn't have been as a licensed person - but I didn't think too many would recognise me in my get-up when I saw this bloke running through the crowd straight at me.

"He looked desperate about getting a bet on and only had eyes for the bookie's stand he was headed for.

"I'm not sure he even saw me and I was in no real state to get out of the way. As he went past he caught my chin with his elbow and there was a crack like a branch had snapped. I felt an incredibly sharp pain and was really frightened for what had happened, as I was sure I'd broken my neck again.

"The friend I was with heard the crack too and had to grab hold of me as I was headed for the floor. It took a few seconds to gather myself and to realise I hadn't done any more damage and then a few minutes later and I stood up straight with no pain for the first time since the accident.

"I'm not a religious man but it was like someone upstairs had said to the bloke 'Go and fix him up' - and he did.

"I've never had a moment of trouble with my neck from that day onwards. I'd love to thank the guy who ran in to me - but I'm sure he'd be totally unaware he even hit me. I hope he got the bet on - and it won at 50/1."
[Racehorse trainer Colin Hayes (left) with Robert Sangster and his wife Susan and jockey John Letts after winning the 1980 Melbourne Cup on Beldale Ball.]Racehorse trainer Colin Hayes (left) with Robert Sangster and his wife Susan and jockey John Letts after winning the 1980 Melbourne Cup on Beldale Ball.

Remarkably John was riding trackwork within a week and just another five weeks after that was ready to face his demons with a ride in a race.

The venue was Cheltenham racecourse just down the road from where he was born and where he first learned horses don't have handles.



His first ride back was a victory on Red Camellia.

"I could hear the crowd cheering from the time we hit the front all the way to the line," he says.

"They really wanted me to win and that meant so much and they clapped me all the way back in and it didn't stop until l jumped off.

"I've never experienced anything like that and it is something I'll never forget. I'm not an emotional person at all but I'm not too proud to say I had some tears at that moment.

"It's the only time I've ever shed a tear at a racetrack.

"All I ever wanted to be was a jockey and I was so happy to be back.

"By crashing into me that punter did what the specialists couldn't do. He cured me. From that day on I knew I was in for big things."
[Dual Melbourne Cup winning jockey John Letts holds the cup aloft in the Kakadu National Park during the Melbourne Cup Tour.]Dual Melbourne Cup winning jockey John Letts holds the cup aloft in the Kakadu National Park during the Melbourne Cup Tour.

Big things included winning the Melbourne Cup a second time on Beldale Ball in 1980 after a first win on Piping Lane in 1972.

All in all John Letts, inducted into the Australian Racing Hall of Fame in 2010, won more than 1000 races, before retiring in 1988, after being told he would never ride again.

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Nov 20 15:41:52 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:41:52 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Sounds fantastic, but...
In-Reply-To: <MN2PR04MB58219230DB3371F7433CC2E5BB4F0@MN2PR04MB5821.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <009101d59f4b$b216cd20$16446760$@ozemail.com.au>
	<MN2PR04MB58219230DB3371F7433CC2E5BB4F0@MN2PR04MB5821.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <000701d59f5c$d489dcb0$7d9d9610$@ozemail.com.au>

Lindsay,

 

My favourite recollection of Letts was his ride in a race won by Gay
Consort,  a 9yo accustomed to hurdles, in the open class 4-horse boat race
at Cheltenham some time in the mid-1970's. It was 200/1 SP (I got $20 @
250/1) and paid 11/1 with the TAB after coming up shorter early and
drifting. They barely cantered in Indian file behind GC all the way into the
straight when the odds-on favourite Sir Condottiere, ridden by Letts,
thought he should win (maybe they do have some understanding of their
purpose in life) so tried to pull out to do that. Letts gave it a very hard
whack around the neck/head area to put that idea out of its head and they
cantered over the line in the same Indian file.

 

Rumour had it that it was so short on the TAB because Letts backed it. Later
another rumour was that his wife took all the cash from their safe prior to
leaving and Letts could not bring it up in the divorce hearing because of
its source.

LBL

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of Race Stats
Sent: Wednesday, 20 November 2019 14:55 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Sounds fantastic, but...

 

Len,

After his retirement as a jockey, he turned to the trots as a driver where
here was involved in a horrific race fall. 

The sulky catapulted him into the air and he broke both legs.

He survived that too and went on to interview jockeys on Banjo, before he
was replaced several times.

I do miss Lettsy's interviews on Banjo.

Lindsay

 

 

From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Wednesday, 20 November 2019 1:39 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List'
Subject: [AusRace] Sounds fantastic, but...

 

"I'm not sure he even saw me and I was in no real state to get out of the
way. As he went past he caught my chin with his elbow and there was a crack
like a branch had snapped. I felt an incredibly sharp pain and was really
frightened for what had happened, as I was sure I'd broken my neck again.

"The friend I was with heard the crack too and had to grab hold of me as I
was headed for the floor. It took a few seconds to gather myself and to
realise I hadn't done any more damage and then a few minutes later and I
stood up straight with no pain for the first time since the accident.

"I'm not a religious man but it was like someone upstairs had said to the
bloke 'Go and fix him up' - and he did.

"I've never had a moment of trouble with my neck from that day onwards.

 

 


The million to one incident that changed the life of dual Melbourne Cup
winning jockey John Letts


He was told he'd never walk, let alone ride again. He went on to win another
Melbourne Cup. But you won't believe the million to one incident that got
him back on his feet.

Craig Cook, The Messenger

Subscriber only

| 

November 20, 2019 8:26am



Million to one: John Letts' remarkable life.

 

John Letts was South Australia's most popular jockey at the peak of his
powers with a Melbourne Cup already in his saddlebag - and it all changed in
an instant. 

A horrific race fall 45 years ago saw 'Lettsy' rushed to hospital where
doctors told him he would never walk again, his career was over and he would
be a cripple for life.

But a million-to-one chance saw the 'Punters Pal' back to his riding best.

It was just another mundane provincial race meeting at Gawler in the summer
of 1974 that would have catastrophic consequences for the then 30-year-old
jockey.



Melbourne model Jasmine Chilcott with John Letts with the Melbourne Cup in
Surfers Paradise earlier this year. Picture: Glenn Hampson

He was riding a horse called Weneta, and even today you have to remind him
of the name of the horse because he has a complete block about the incident.

"It was the last race of the day and we were travelling nicely in third
behind a couple of leaders when the horse in front had a heart attack at
full speed," he says.

"There was no warning. I had about a hundredth of a second to react and that
wasn't ever going to be enough time.

"Six of us fell and somehow, I ended up under the dead horse. How I got
there I'll never know. That's all I can tell you. Everything else I know
about that day has been told to me by those who were there."

Jockey Michael Domingo rode in the race and was lucky to avoid the carnage.
He sat in the back of the ambulance with Lettsy all the way to the Royal
Adelaide Hospital.

"Mick told me later that the St John's man had told him, 'Your mate's not
too good. He's stopped breathing . there's not much hope,' Letts says.



 

John Letts with his horse Banjo at Flemington. Picture: Stephen Harman

"They had to pump at my chest to start me up again. I've got a vague
recollection of having to gasp for air in the ambulance and then I remember
being wheeled in under the bright hospital lights.

"Well I think it was the hospital lights, or they could have been those
lights people see when they are about to make the final journey because
that's how serious it was."

Gaining consciousness a few days later, John's mother Georgina was holding
his hand when he came around.

She began to explain that he had broken his neck in a fall and the doctors
had told her he would be a quadriplegic.

"That's when I squeezed her hand and she jumped right off her chair," Lettsy
adds.

"The doctor was a bit surprised too and said, well he might not be a
quadriplegic, but he'll probably never regain the use of his legs."

John's injuries were horrific with a smashed rib cage and three fingers.

Most vital of all there was a partial fracture of the odontoid bone which
connects the skull to the spine. If it had split completely it could have
severed his spinal cord. It was all very dicey.

"I couldn't move I just had to lie there for weeks on end with two sandbags
either side of my head to keep it still," he adds.

"One silly move and I would have been wheelchair bound for good."

Recovering in the Royal Adelaide Hospital jockey John Letts listens to the
races on his transistor radio, August 18, 1974.

Riding horses has been Lettsy's life since leaving school at 13 and there
was a good chance they'd be the death of him but he was determined to get
back in the saddle.

He endured almost six months in hospital waiting for his body to heal before
finally being discharged.

He didn't waste any time working on his own rehabilitation. When he first
went in to see the specialist to get a clearance to ride again he was told
it would be at least two years before he could contemplate getting back in
the saddle.

He didn't let on that, despite a heavy brace on his neck and limited
flexibility and movement in his arms, he had already been trotting around on
the back of a pony at that stage.

Remarkably, he still won the state's top rider award for the 1973-74 season
and was photographed in his brace.

What happened next was unseen by doctor and patient but miraculously saw
John back riding in a race within six weeks.

"I was over at Caulfield for a day at the races during the Melbourne
spring," he adds.

"I still had this surgical collar on my neck and wasn't moving too smartly
but at least I was walking which was a big step from where I was seven
months earlier.



Injured jockey John Letts holds the trophy he received as the State's top
rider for the 1973/74 season. Letts received special permission to leave
hospital to attend the ceremony.

l was stood in the betting ring - which I shouldn't have been as a licensed
person - but I didn't think too many would recognise me in my get-up when I
saw this bloke running through the crowd straight at me.

"He looked desperate about getting a bet on and only had eyes for the
bookie's stand he was headed for.

"I'm not sure he even saw me and I was in no real state to get out of the
way. As he went past he caught my chin with his elbow and there was a crack
like a branch had snapped. I felt an incredibly sharp pain and was really
frightened for what had happened, as I was sure I'd broken my neck again.

"The friend I was with heard the crack too and had to grab hold of me as I
was headed for the floor. It took a few seconds to gather myself and to
realise I hadn't done any more damage and then a few minutes later and I
stood up straight with no pain for the first time since the accident.

"I'm not a religious man but it was like someone upstairs had said to the
bloke 'Go and fix him up' - and he did.

"I've never had a moment of trouble with my neck from that day onwards. I'd
love to thank the guy who ran in to me - but I'm sure he'd be totally
unaware he even hit me. I hope he got the bet on - and it won at 50/1."

Racehorse trainer Colin Hayes (left) with Robert Sangster and his wife Susan
and jockey John Letts after winning the 1980 Melbourne Cup on Beldale Ball.

Remarkably John was riding trackwork within a week and just another five
weeks after that was ready to face his demons with a ride in a race.

The venue was Cheltenham racecourse just down the road from where he was
born and where he first learned horses don't have handles.

 

His first ride back was a victory on Red Camellia.

"I could hear the crowd cheering from the time we hit the front all the way
to the line," he says.

"They really wanted me to win and that meant so much and they clapped me all
the way back in and it didn't stop until l jumped off.

"I've never experienced anything like that and it is something I'll never
forget. I'm not an emotional person at all but I'm not too proud to say I
had some tears at that moment.

"It's the only time I've ever shed a tear at a racetrack.

"All I ever wanted to be was a jockey and I was so happy to be back.

"By crashing into me that punter did what the specialists couldn't do. He
cured me. From that day on I knew I was in for big things."

Dual Melbourne Cup winning jockey John Letts holds the cup aloft in the
Kakadu National Park during the Melbourne Cup Tour.

Big things included winning the Melbourne Cup a second time on Beldale Ball
in 1980 after a first win on Piping Lane in 1972.

All in all John Letts, inducted into the Australian Racing Hall of Fame in
2010, won more than 1000 races, before retiring in 1988, after being told he
would never ride again.

 

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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Thu Nov 21 22:46:18 2019
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 22:46:18 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Ballarat
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b1ogfAjQqtECBXQc0Z14u8WCNkqr-YMgZXWacDx6t1NNA@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone got any opinion of whether Ballarat still plays to the leaders?
I reckon it did a few years ago but haven't taken much notice of it for
awhile.
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From tonymoffat at bigpond.com  Sun Nov 24 00:06:08 2019
From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat)
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2019 21:06:08 +0800
Subject: [AusRace] Bill Waterhouse
Message-ID: <000301d5a1fe$c6709610$5351c230$@bigpond.com>

Hail and farewell Bill - to Rob and families, sympathy and wishes for
happiness and comfort.

Seems to me to be a big presence missing now.

Cheers

Tony




From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Sun Nov 24 07:14:33 2019
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 07:14:33 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Bill Waterhouse
In-Reply-To: <000301d5a1fe$c6709610$5351c230$@bigpond.com>
References: <000301d5a1fe$c6709610$5351c230$@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b08YzppmQGg52hyexq3t_oFQ8P-yhmVk8RzEwUyRp2UjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, condolences Rob.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 at 00:06, Tony Moffat <tonymoffat at bigpond.com> wrote:

> Hail and farewell Bill - to Rob and families, sympathy and wishes for
> happiness and comfort.
>
> Seems to me to be a big presence missing now.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tony
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From mikemcbain at tpg.com.au  Sun Nov 24 09:38:44 2019
From: mikemcbain at tpg.com.au (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 09:38:44 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Vale Bill Waterhouse
Message-ID: <000d01d5a24e$c3ef3400$4bcd9c00$@tpg.com.au>

Rob and Tom & Families, sincere condolences, losing such a legend is a very
sad time.

 

Mike McBain

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sun Nov 24 12:20:19 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 12:20:19 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Bill Waterhouse
Message-ID: <006e01d5a265$5601e8e0$0205baa0$@ozemail.com.au>

 

Yes. Bill had a long enjoyable life, one to be celebrated.

 

"I have done my share; it is time to go. I will do it elegantly" - Albert
Einstein.

 

LBL

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat
Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2019 0:06 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Bill Waterhouse

 

Hail and farewell Bill - to Rob and families, sympathy and wishes for
happiness and comfort.

 

Seems to me to be a big presence missing now.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

_______________________________________________

Racing mailing list

 <mailto:Racing at ausrace.com> Racing at ausrace.com

 <http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com>
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com

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From robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com  Tue Nov 26 03:54:01 2019
From: robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com (Robbie Waterhouse)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 03:54:01 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Bill Waterhouse
In-Reply-To: <006e01d5a265$5601e8e0$0205baa0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <006e01d5a265$5601e8e0$0205baa0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <068d01d5a3b0$f1945760$d4bd0620$@robbiewaterhouse.com>

Well said, Len.

 

Rob W

 

From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2019 12:20 PM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] Bill Waterhouse

 

 

Yes. Bill had a long enjoyable life, one to be celebrated.

 

"I have done my share; it is time to go. I will do it elegantly" - Albert
Einstein.

 

LBL

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat
Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2019 0:06 AM
To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com
<mailto:racing at ausrace.com> >
Subject: [AusRace] Bill Waterhouse

 

Hail and farewell Bill - to Rob and families, sympathy and wishes for
happiness and comfort.

 

Seems to me to be a big presence missing now.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

_______________________________________________

Racing mailing list

 <mailto:Racing at ausrace.com> Racing at ausrace.com

 <http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com>
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com

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From robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com  Tue Nov 26 04:29:38 2019
From: robbie at robbiewaterhouse.com (Robbie Waterhouse)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 04:29:38 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Vale Bill Waterhouse
In-Reply-To: <000d01d5a24e$c3ef3400$4bcd9c00$@tpg.com.au>
References: <000d01d5a24e$c3ef3400$4bcd9c00$@tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <071601d5a3b5$eaae57c0$c00b0740$@robbiewaterhouse.com>

Thank you so much, much appreciated,

 

Rob W

 

From: Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> On Behalf Of mikemcbain at tpg.com.au
Sent: Sunday, 24 November 2019 9:39 AM
To: racing at ausrace.com
Subject: [AusRace] Vale Bill Waterhouse

 

Rob and Tom & Families, sincere condolences, losing such a legend is a very
sad time.

 

Mike McBain

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Tue Nov 26 15:25:47 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2019 15:25:47 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Deductions for Scratchings
Message-ID: <001e01d5a411$93934840$bab9d8c0$@ozemail.com.au>

Here's how Sportsbet explains deductions. Does not "fixed odds of $2.50"
indicate $2.50 WIN (they even say "a $10 win bet"), leaving aside their
confusion of Odds with Price as they clearly are using Odds to refer to
Price (1.01 Price = 1/100 Odds): 

 

 



 

 

But their table shows that at $2.50, the deduction is 31% and 20% applies to
place bets with 3 dividends, and instead of a $5 deduction, it is $7.75

 



 

It's not until $3.70 that 20% deduction is applicable:

 



 

Does it matter? Does it show incompetence by whoever prepared the spiel or a
deliberate attempt to lessen the reality? 

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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Wed Nov 27 14:31:08 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:31:08 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Ballarat
In-Reply-To: <CAJfP4b1ogfAjQqtECBXQc0Z14u8WCNkqr-YMgZXWacDx6t1NNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJfP4b1ogfAjQqtECBXQc0Z14u8WCNkqr-YMgZXWacDx6t1NNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d5a4d3$1bd36070$537a2150$@ozemail.com.au>

Raw figures:

 

1/1/2012-31/12/2015,

 

from 504 races with 8 or more starters

 

Leader on settling  won 98, leader at turn won 131

2nd on settling won 75, 2nd at turn won 81

3rd 63,64

4th 50,54

5th  60,47

6th 36,31

7th 35,35

8th 26,27

 

1/1/2017- yesterday

 

from 417 races with 8 or more starters

 

Leader   65,99

2nd 61,64

3rd 37,55

4th 46,45

5th 36,36

6th 49,38

7th 33,38

8th 37,21

 

There is also the Synthetic track now:

from 129 races since 1/1/2017 with 8 or more starters:

 

24,32

12,10

12,20

19,17

13,13

15,13

13,12

6,4

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2019 22:46 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: [AusRace] Ballarat

 

Anyone got any opinion of whether Ballarat still plays to the leaders?

I reckon it did a few years ago but haven't taken much notice of it for awhile. 

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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Wed Nov 27 17:50:32 2019
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 17:50:32 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] Ballarat
In-Reply-To: <000001d5a4d3$1bd36070$537a2150$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <CAJfP4b1ogfAjQqtECBXQc0Z14u8WCNkqr-YMgZXWacDx6t1NNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001d5a4d3$1bd36070$537a2150$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b2bsEMWxFWxUXDSsAYpnLmsYKkX7LDvcpGpmMhCDtBzMg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Len. It sort of played that way on Saturday.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 at 14:31, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> Raw figures:
>
>
>
> 1/1/2012-31/12/2015,
>
>
>
> from 504 races with 8 or more starters
>
>
>
> Leader on settling  won 98, leader at turn won 131
>
> 2nd on settling won 75, 2nd at turn won 81
>
> 3rd 63,64
>
> 4th 50,54
>
> 5th  60,47
>
> 6th 36,31
>
> 7th 35,35
>
> 8th 26,27
>
>
>
> 1/1/2017- yesterday
>
>
>
> from 417 races with 8 or more starters
>
>
>
> Leader   65,99
>
> 2nd 61,64
>
> 3rd 37,55
>
> 4th 46,45
>
> 5th 36,36
>
> 6th 49,38
>
> 7th 33,38
>
> 8th 37,21
>
>
>
> There is also the Synthetic track now:
>
> from 129 races since 1/1/2017 with 8 or more starters:
>
>
>
> 24,32
>
> 12,10
>
> 12,20
>
> 19,17
>
> 13,13
>
> 15,13
>
> 13,12
>
> 6,4
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of *norsaintpublishing at gmail.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, 21 November 2019 22:46 PM
> *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* [AusRace] Ballarat
>
>
>
> Anyone got any opinion of whether Ballarat still plays to the leaders?
>
> I reckon it did a few years ago but haven't taken much notice of it for
> awhile.
> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sat Nov 30 06:53:36 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 06:53:36 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] (no subject)
Message-ID: <001b01d5a6ee$b02b9090$1082b1b0$@ozemail.com.au>



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From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com  Sat Nov 30 08:30:39 2019
From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 08:00:39 +1030
Subject: [AusRace] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <001b01d5a6ee$b02b9090$1082b1b0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001b01d5a6ee$b02b9090$1082b1b0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAJfP4b1GVcnfFVv31e0mqwi8ZAoHskyono7-9O8bdxNULb2P0Q@mail.gmail.com>

It just shows there's no point in trying to accommodate these lunatics.
Give them an inch and they'll want more. It pains me to hear hacks on
racing-owned radio stations leading the charge to abandon the whip and
other measures to try and ingratiate themselves with people who'd shut down
the industry given half a chance.

On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 at 06:24, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From seanmac4321 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 30 14:15:13 2019
From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 13:15:13 +1000
Subject: [AusRace] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <001b01d5a6ee$b02b9090$1082b1b0$@ozemail.com.au>
References: <001b01d5a6ee$b02b9090$1082b1b0$@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <CAOBDE-RgbKCSr=Chbo-KNX-Kz3HTprra8fyOU90Huv0V97ws1g@mail.gmail.com>

Len , I have read it and can offer no further comment. Sean

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 5:54 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> _______________________________________________
> Racing mailing list
> Racing at ausrace.com
> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com
>
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From lloveday at ozemail.com.au  Sat Nov 30 17:57:05 2019
From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday)
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2019 17:57:05 +1100
Subject: [AusRace] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CAOBDE-RgbKCSr=Chbo-KNX-Kz3HTprra8fyOU90Huv0V97ws1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001b01d5a6ee$b02b9090$1082b1b0$@ozemail.com.au>
	<CAOBDE-RgbKCSr=Chbo-KNX-Kz3HTprra8fyOU90Huv0V97ws1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401d5a74b$606cda70$21468f50$@ozemail.com.au>

Sean,,

 

I am so happy I'm far  closer to death than strting out.

 

LBL

 

 

From: Racing On Behalf Of sean mclaren
Sent: Saturday, 30 November 2019 14:15 PM
To: AusRace Racing Discussion List <racing at ausrace.com>
Subject: Re: [AusRace] (no subject)

 

Len , I have read it and can offer no further comment. Sean

 

On Sat, Nov 30, 2019 at 5:54 AM L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au <mailto:lloveday at ozemail.com.au> > wrote:



_______________________________________________
Racing mailing list
Racing at ausrace.com <mailto:Racing at ausrace.com> 
http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com

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