From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Fri Mar 1 02:21:19 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:21:19 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Bill W on Winx Message-ID: <005001d4cf79$4264ed10$c72ec730$@ozemail.com.au> Bill Waterhouse saw Phar Lap race and reckons Winx is the best ever Ray Thomas, Racing editor, The Daily Telegraph February 28, 2019 7:00pm Subscriber only One of the last living links to Phar Lap has been moved to rate wonder mare Winx as a better racehorse than the legend of Australian racing. Bill Waterhouse, once the world?s biggest bookmaker, is 97 but his memory of Phar Lap hasn?t faded with the passing of time. But as Winx is being readied for her attempt at a 31st consecutive win in the Group 1 $600,000 Chipping Norton Stakes (1600m) at Royal Randwick, Waterhouse said the mighty mare deserves to be recognised as the greatest of all time. Comparing racehorses from different eras ? particularly two that are almost 90 years apart ? is certain to create robust debate. Winx will chase a world record 23rd Group 1 win on Saturday at Royal Randwick. Picture: Getty Images But Waterhouse is in a better position than most to make the comparison as he can still vividly recall watching Phar Lap dominate the 1930 Randwick autumn carnival with runaway wins in the AJC St Leger, Cumberland Stakes and AJC Plate. ?As a boy, I saw Phar Lap race at Randwick, winning three times over the seven days of the AJC Carnival,?? Waterhouse said. ?He created a huge impression on me. I ?knew? he was the greatest horse to ever race. Young eyes allow a champion to make an enormous impact. ?Then and thereafter, everyone recognised Phar Lap as an absolute ?wonder horse?. ?I remember Dad?s (C.O.H. Waterhouse, a St Leger bookmaker) oft-repeated, sage advice to me, prompted by Phar Lap: ?Never bet against a champion?.?? Waterhouse has always rated Phar Lap as the greatest horse he has seen and unbeaten sprinter Black Caviar as the fastest but he now believes Winx has eclipsed both champions. ?I have to acknowledge, Winx is, I think, superior to Phar Lap,?? Waterhouse said. ?I think she the best racehorse I ever seen in my 97 years. ?Modern horses are better reared, better fed and, maybe, better trained today. Why wouldn?t they be better? ?With 30 straight wins, Winx has screamed her domination of her generation. ?Moreover, I?m told, she may have the ?quickest? stride ever recorded. She is the best ever!?? But Waterhouse feels Winx may not be remembered as reverentially as Phar Lap. ?I am not sure history will be as kind to Winx as me,?? he said. ?In contrast, the memory of Phar Lap will be that of a great horse of taking on all distances, all weights, undaunted by the fear of defeat. ?Phar Lap won the 1930 Cox Plate and then won at each of the four days of the VRC Spring Carnival (1600m to 3200m). ?He won, over his lifetime, from 1000m to 3600m. He raced in the Melbourne Cup with 68kg on a 42.5kg limit. ?He won the world?s richest race lame, wearing bar plates. A brave warrior. ?By contrast I fear Winx will, in time to come, be wrongly tainted with the tag a ?cotton wool? champion. But you can?t blame the Winx connections. Times are different.?? Waterhouse said prizemoney for weight-for-age races are ?worth so much more today compared with yesteryear? so there is no need for Winx to be tested in handicaps. ?Phar Lap?s 1931 Cox Plate was worth only ?400 as against his 1930 Melbourne Cup of ?9,229,?? Waterhouse said. Waterhouse is adamant Winx could race on for another year and still dominate Australian racing. ?Phar Lap didn?t retire,?? he said, recalling how the mighty racehorse died from a mystery ailment when still in his prime, less than three weeks after beating America?s best horses in the 1932 Agua Caliente Handicap. ?If I owned Winx, she would stay racing, forget about protecting her unbeaten record and show her greatness by ?stepping outside the crease? like Phar Lap.?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seanmac4321 at gmail.com Fri Mar 1 08:10:32 2019 From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren) Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 07:10:32 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Bill W on Winx In-Reply-To: <005001d4cf79$4264ed10$c72ec730$@ozemail.com.au> References: <005001d4cf79$4264ed10$c72ec730$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: thanks Len for that On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 1:22 AM L.B.Loveday wrote: > Bill Waterhouse saw Phar Lap race and reckons Winx is the best ever > > Ray Thomas, Racing editor, The Daily Telegraph > > February 28, 2019 7:00pm > > Subscriber only > > One of the last living links to Phar Lap has been moved to rate wonder > mare Winx as a better racehorse than the legend of Australian racing. > > Bill Waterhouse, once the world?s biggest bookmaker, is 97 but his memory > of Phar Lap hasn?t faded with the passing of time. > > But as Winx is being readied for her attempt at a 31st consecutive win in > the Group 1 $600,000 Chipping Norton Stakes (1600m) at Royal Randwick, > Waterhouse said the mighty mare deserves to be recognised as the greatest > of all time. > > Comparing racehorses from different eras ? particularly two that are > almost 90 years apart ? is certain to create robust debate. > > > > Winx will chase a world record 23rd Group 1 win on Saturday at Royal > Randwick. Picture: Getty Images > > But Waterhouse is in a better position than most to make the comparison as > he can still vividly recall watching Phar Lap dominate the 1930 Randwick > autumn carnival with runaway wins in the AJC St Leger, Cumberland Stakes > and AJC Plate. > > ?As a boy, I saw Phar Lap race at Randwick, winning three times over the > seven days of the AJC Carnival,?? Waterhouse said. > > ?He created a huge impression on me. I ?knew? he was the greatest horse to > ever race. Young eyes allow a champion to make an enormous impact. > > ?Then and thereafter, everyone recognised Phar Lap as an absolute ?wonder > horse?. > > ?I remember Dad?s (C.O.H. Waterhouse, a St Leger bookmaker) oft-repeated, > sage advice to me, prompted by Phar Lap: ?Never bet against a champion?.?? > > > > > Waterhouse has always rated Phar Lap as the greatest horse he has seen and > unbeaten sprinter Black Caviar as the fastest but he now believes Winx has > eclipsed both champions. > > ?I have to acknowledge, Winx is, I think, superior to Phar Lap,?? > Waterhouse said. > > ?I think she the best racehorse I ever seen in my 97 years. > > ?Modern horses are better reared, better fed and, maybe, better trained > today. Why wouldn?t they be better? > > ?With 30 straight wins, Winx has screamed her domination of her generation. > > ?Moreover, I?m told, she may have the ?quickest? stride ever recorded. She > is the best ever!?? > > But Waterhouse feels Winx may not be remembered as reverentially as Phar > Lap. > > ?I am not sure history will be as kind to Winx as me,?? he said. > > ?In contrast, the memory of Phar Lap will be that of a great horse of > taking on all distances, all weights, undaunted by the fear of defeat. > > ?Phar Lap won the 1930 Cox Plate and then won at each of the four days of > the VRC Spring Carnival (1600m to 3200m). > > ?He won, over his lifetime, from 1000m to 3600m. He raced in the Melbourne > Cup with 68kg on a 42.5kg limit. > > ?He won the world?s richest race lame, wearing bar plates. A brave warrior. > > ?By contrast I fear Winx will, in time to come, be wrongly tainted with > the tag a ?cotton wool? champion. But you can?t blame the Winx connections. > Times are different.?? > > Waterhouse said prizemoney for weight-for-age races are ?worth so much > more today compared with yesteryear? so there is no need for Winx to be > tested in handicaps. > > ?Phar Lap?s 1931 Cox Plate was worth only ?400 as against his 1930 > Melbourne Cup of ?9,229,?? Waterhouse said. > > Waterhouse is adamant Winx could race on for another year and still > dominate Australian racing. > > ?Phar Lap didn?t retire,?? he said, recalling how the mighty racehorse > died from a mystery ailment when still in his prime, less than three weeks > after beating America?s best horses in the 1932 Agua Caliente Handicap. > > ?If I owned Winx, she would stay racing, forget about protecting her > unbeaten record and show her greatness by ?stepping outside the crease? > like Phar Lap.?? > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sat Mar 2 14:03:04 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2019 14:03:04 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Today's cheatin' bookie Message-ID: <005801d4d0a4$765df4f0$6319ded0$@ozemail.com.au> Bet365 are refusing to take any bets from me (and plenty of others) on Bowen - not win, not place, not for 50c - in contravention of MBL. Maybe they think Bowen is in New Zealand; maybe they don't think. Here's their pathetic response, showing a complete lack of understanding of the issue: **************** Thank you for your email regarding Maximum Stake. I can confirm that all bet types have an associated Maximum Stake and if you wish to place a bet above the maximum amount you can refer the bet to one of our Traders. ************ And they pay their staff! The on-course bookies I knew wouldn't toss them their food scraps. Complaining to the NTRC has always been a waste of time; they are either the most incompetent or corrupt adjudication body I've ever experienced, and I've been through the FCA at length. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Tue Mar 5 21:12:26 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2019 18:12:26 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Dettori Day - from the book Taking Chances - used with permission Message-ID: <000401d4d33b$efefac20$cfcf0460$@bigpond.com> "Reproduced with permission of the Licensor through PLSclear." The author has been contacted and given his permission to quote from his book also >From the book Taking Chances - Dr John Haigh - Oxford University Press Further information here: https://www.booktopia.com.au/taking-chances-john-haigh/prod9780198526636.htm l Taking Chances - Winning with Probability On Saturday September 28 1996 Frank Dettori rode the seven winners on the card at Ascot UK. The English bookmaking fraternity reported they lost ?40 million on the day,it may have been more,and it seemed to be an unmitigated disaster, according to the papers, although this was later reported as being 'the best thing ever for racing' by the fielders themselves, punters got paid, well paid, the media reported racing positively and there was renewed interest by the public in caning the bookies. The press said 'the fifth win was expensvie, the 6th dismal, and by the 7th it was time to turn out the lights' However if the accounting machinations are looked at you can see the industry working to control and reduce their losses. Dettori's feat was so costly for the industry through a combination of factors. One was the English tradition of accumulators, bets made early on a multi choice of factors, but in this case on Frankie riding the card, impossible, but they offered in excess of ?250 k for odds, and they wrote tickets on it early, in addition to singles and multiples involving Dettori during the day. This was no up country hacking meeting either, there were some top ho races including the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes and a seasonal championship could be decided, depending on trainers outputs, and then there was TV - BBC covered the first 3 races, which included the Stakes, and as the day progressed TV continued broadcasting, they cancelled or re-arranged their programs as the afternoon progressed and the jockey became invincible, it seems. ? Oxford University Press A professional odds maker would likely see Dettori finishing well in at two races, perhaps three all day, this day, apart from almost every other day he rides. Knowing he rides like his mortgage depends on winning, they said, and he attracts bets as a result, his mounts may be overbet often. Only one of his rides was near favourite pre race and three of them were written as long shots, 10/1 or more. Odds like that will attract early money and the off course punter, of course, can bet at this scale or SP if joining later. On this day, then, SP was determined from a selection of up to 100 bookmaking companies working the races, and a chosen 6 or so on course. By far the biggest market is off course at the hundreds or more shops in the streets of suburbs and towns and this is money not transferred but controlled by the actions of money on course, ?50,000 on course opposed to several hundred thousand off course. As will be seen it was the off course shops who used their on course contacts to finance and drive the on course sp down to lessen, but not remove, the risk.The initial odds reflect their constructors judgement, or more likely the assessment of what price would induce a bet. Obviously, big bets on a runner will cause the odds to change, shorten, to protect the money, and other odds on other runners may, may, lengthen to attract bets for them. In their system, in a 20 horse race the shop may have a liability of note on two runners, and a profit from 16 or more, with a break even proposition on some also. It will happen that the shop will win if the favouritie does. Race 1: Wall Street started out at 5/2, 3/1 and started 2/1 favourite. No surprises there Race 2: Diffident was not favoured and won at 12/1 after being shopped at 10/1 for hours. Race 3: was the main event at 3.20pm QEII Stakes, 7 starters and Corals had Bosra Sham as favourite but Dettori mount Mark of Esteem, assisted by accumulators was 10/3 second favourite. Bookies margin was about 12%. Direct money alone would have allowed a profit on winning but the flow on of money from previous races deleted that. Alarm bells started to ring in betting shops everywhere, everything was televised, and Dettori was a crowd favourite anyway Race 4: Decorated Hero had been 14/1 and was now 8/1 and firming in a 26 runner field and romped in at 7/1 and the contingent liabilities skyrocketed. It was Dettori Day alright, and there were more races. The strategy was to bet heavily on course to drive down, and control, the sp of future mounts in upcoming races. Timing was important as early big bets would be laid off and the runner price might drift again. Big bets in the closing minutes was the technique and the shops had reps on course for that, cash or credit it seemed. ? Oxford University Press Race 5: Fatefully attracted huge bets as the start time approached (10/3 into 7/4) and can be seen as a succesful plunge, not only because they collected the winnings, but each ?12 bet meant a loss of only ?21 and not ?40, the accumulators were a problem but management, then control, was being applied. That betting scenario can be explained by showing that 12 pound at 7/4 returns 33 pound, less your stake of 12 pound and your lay loss is 21. 10/3 (which we don't have) is 3.33 in our money. Returns 40 (alright 39.96 but they will pay you 40 folding) Race 6: Lochangel won at 5/4. The BBC changed their programming to show this race, a five horse affair, and the next race. The previous strategy was repeated, and it seems more than ?80k from each of several firms was invested on course, to drive down the sp. Corals had outgoings of ?600 k and by betting back they reduced their liability by ?225k and also won over ?100k. Nobody ever perhaps has spent so heavily hoping for the thing to run last! Race 7: A year earlier Dettori had won this same race, on the same horse, Fujiyama Crest. It was now top weight, had performed dismally up to this point in the season, 5 runs and nothing closer than 3rd, unplaced in the last 2, 18 runners, and had opened earlier at 12/1, then 7/1 during Race 4, then 4/1 after race 5, and now 6/4 at times. On course bookmakers have minimal running-on liabilities from previous events and their prices should be or should reflect their own opinion of the runners chances and that opinion altered or modified by bets. Thousands of pounds were bet at 7/4 and yet oncourse bookies increased its price 2/1, seeking more money. It was impossible to ride the winners of 7 races, surely, so their belief was justified because of this. Dettori said to the trainer 'if this one gets beat it's your fault, 'cos I'm in form' Never mind, Fujiyama Crest ran into the lead and won at 2/1 sp In the back offices there were no celebrations. They had their winnings to collect and a business to run and racing continued into the evening and night. The best collect may have been a fixed odds accumulator written that morning that returned ?235k, others returned ?25k at sp. Dettori was on the favourite in the last three races. ? Oxford University Press The bookies business continued. Next day Frankie had to wait until the last race for his first victory, and his mounts in each race were very well supported but lost. The recoup had begun it seems. Ignoring the complications of multiple bets, and looking at direct money on each race, wins by 75 of 93 horses racing on Dettori Day would have meant profit for the books, the remaining 18 favoured the punters. ? Oxford University Press The text is taken from the book 'Taking Chances - Winning with Probability' by Dr John Haigh and is used with permission - ? Oxford Publishing Limited (Academic) has granted a licence for your request to use content from Taking Chances Winning with Probability [9780198526636] ? Oxford University Press (Licensor) - Anthony G Moffat is the licensee ? The author, Doctor John Haigh was contacted by Tony Moffat at University of Sussex and he gave permission for the following to be used. Thank you Dr Haigh Thank you OUP The endeavours of Publishers' Licensing Services (PLSClear) are acknowledged with gratitude -thank you Ben The copyright symbol appears on each page. Northerly, the G does not stand for Gaylord. Dr Haigh has written a succession of books. Another of his, 'Beating the Odds' with Rob Eastaway is good also and better because it describes a strategy in darts, 501, and directs/implauds you to leave triple 20 alone and go for the much more attainable 19, 16 or 14. I am not a darter, may be, or a dart player but I was first told about this scoring strategy, and ignoring the 20 segment, from a Jesuit priest, between his Rothmans and driving back from Mass in a country village, all those years ago, in his Valiant, me as an altar boy too. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Mar 6 04:53:34 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2019 04:53:34 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] From MorningMail Message-ID: <009001d4d37c$5b4ceb00$11e6c100$@ozemail.com.au> Have a punt now and then? As one who never punts, wouldn?t even know how to place a bet, I thought some punters, occasional or frequent, might be interested in how and where huge sums of your money goes? The betting business is a large cheese with many holes and even more mice nibbling away getting their share of the available bounty. This article is long and very informative. The barrage of blokey ads. The sponsorship signage. The steady drip of endorsements by smiling sports stars. Online betting giants are pumping millions into the battle for the minds and wallets of Australian punters, with a singular aim: making you reach for your phone. Sportsbet?s big punt Source: 7.30 Paul Farrell, Inga Ting and Amy Donaldson Now a 7.30 investigation can reveal details about the powerful machinery behind one of the country?s leading sports betting operators - a company that has spent nearly half a billion dollars over five years on endeavours aimed at tightening its grip on this rapidly growing market. ?Companies spend this amount of money on marketing because it works,? said Samantha Thomas, a leading researcher in gambling behaviour. But the payments have also raised concerns about the integrity of some of the deals, sparking calls for enhanced supervision of the activities of betting operators. A Sportsbet spokesman said the company had been a longstanding public advocate for a reduction in wagering advertising. A tangled web of influence >From tech behemoths Google and Facebook to sports celebrities and television personalities, professional sporting codes and even local sports clubs, court documents obtained by 7.30 reveal a vast network of payments that have helped transform Sportsbet into the most recognised gambling brand in the country. News/Broadcast Affiliates Tech Sports clubs Individuals Other $0.1M $1.4M $6.5M $25M Google Asia Pacific $36.8M Google Australia $25M Facebook $18.7M TCN-9 Sydney $43.3M Fox Footy Channel $21.2M Between January 2013 and June 2018 Sportsbet paid more than 1,500 entities a combined sum of $490.5 million in marketing and promotional endeavours. Each one is represented by a circle in the chart above. The bigger the circle, the bigger the spend. Among the entities is Quantium, a data analytics firm that National Australia Bank supplies with de-identified customer transaction data from all NAB account holders. The company is part-owned by Woolworths and uses the NAB data to analyse spending habits for all kinds of sectors, including online gambling. A Sportsbet spokesman confirmed Sportsbet ?uses data and analytics to understand our market share and make informed business decisions.? NAB?s privacy policy for its customers does not include any express references to Quantium nor does it explain that transaction data could be used by third parties like Sportsbet. ?I think most people would be pretty shocked to know that their bank is sharing their transactional information,? said Lauren Levin, the director of policy and campaigns at Financial Counselling Australia. A spokesman from Quantium told 7.30 the company does not work betting companies ?following an update to our data ethics and usage policy implemented eight months ago?. He said the data provided to Sportsbet was a ?high-level breakdown of the sports betting market? and that it would be impossible to individually target marketing. An NAB spokesman said that it took customer privacy seriously and that the transaction data provided is de-identified and encrypted. He said that the information provided to Quantium was not considered to be personal information subject to Australia?s privacy laws. Murky legal territory Sportsbet?s aggressive marketing strategy has potentially already breached state gambling laws. 7.30 can reveal that in December 2018, Liquor and Gaming NSW filed criminal charges against Sportsbet for four counts of unlawful gambling advertisements on its website. The regulator alleges the company has repeatedly offered unlawful inducements like bonus bet offers - where new bettors are offered bets for free - to new customers. The company spokesman said the action relates to ?legacy advertisements? that were inadvertently left on a discreet section of the website following changes to NSW law in July 2018. The charges follow a period of rapid growth for the company. Between 2013 and 2016, Sportsbet?s promotional spending nearly trebled, rising from just under $40 million to more than $110 million. This fell slightly in 2017 to $101 million but in the first six months of 2018 had already exceeded $98 million, suggesting that last year may have been its highest spend. Sportsbet?s massive injection into marketing and promotion stands in stark contrast to the resources available to regulate it. Those resources mostly lie with Licensing NT, which manages the Territory?s gaming industry. Sportsbet and other major gambling operators are registered in the NT, which provides a generous cap on tax. In the five-and-a-half years to June 2018, Sportsbet spent 2.5 times more than Licensing NT?s budget for the six years to July 2018. This budget is used to regulate all gaming, racing liquor, consumer and trading activities in the Territory. Sportsbet?s dramatic marketing spend also raises questions over whether the company may have breached a new code of conduct, which it signed as a member of Responsible Wagering Australia. The code states that all members ?will immediately advocate for further industry wide commitments to reduce the volume of wagering advertising?. The industry body can impose sanctions and penalties on members and can even revoke membership in some circumstances. A spokesman for Responsible Wagering Australia said Sportsbet was wholly compliant with the code of conduct. He said: ?RWA and its members have also led the way on other significant reforms aimed at addressing community concerns about wagering?. Sporting stars in the spotlight The documents reveal nearly $18 million in payments to about 400 community associations, sports clubs and individuals, including sportspeople and media personalities. A number of payments - some of which may have breached sports integrity rules - were made to high-profile players and others associated with professional sporting codes, including a former NRL player and two AFL teams. ?These sorts of payments need to be made transparent, they need to be made public and they need to be explained to ensure that we?re upholding and protecting the integrity of the sport and the athletes,? said Richard Ings, a tennis integrity expert who is also the former vice-president of the Association of Tennis Professionals. 7.30 previously reported that Christos Kyrgios, tennis star Nick Kyrgios? brother, received $40,000 to engage in promotional activities for Sportsbet in 2018, in what may amount to a breach of tennis integrity rules. Among the transactions raising concerns is a $40,000 payment made in 2013 to Romboh Pty Ltd, a company owned by former NRL player Trent Barrett. During 2013 Barrett was assistant coach for NSW in the State of Origin, prompting questions over whether he may have breached the NRL?s integrity rules. The NRL?s rule around gambling operators states: ?No person bound by this Code shall be sponsored, employed, contracted, engaged or otherwise commercially involved in any way, whether directly or indirectly, with a Gambling Operator?. An NRL spokesman declined to release a copy of the full NRL integrity rules to 7.30 and did not respond to questions. Trent Barrett did not respond to questions sent via his manager. Two Australian Football League clubs that received payments from Sportsbet may also breach the AFL?s gambling policy. Richmond Football Club received $91,480 from Sportsbet in 2015 and Collingwood Football Club received $12,567 from Sportsbet in 2013. Collingwood was listed as a sponsor on the club?s website, giving Collingwood supporters a free $100 bet when they signed up. Court documents filed by Sportsbet state that the club ?has also been the official betting partner of the Collingwood Football Club since at least 2012.? A Collingwood spokesman said the club ?has not been involved with Sportsbet in any way since 2013?. The Collingwood webpage describing Sportsbet as a sponsor and betting partner was deleted following 7.30?s queries. The AFL?s gambling policy prohibits clubs, players and officials from engaging in betting advertisements or promotions without the permission of the AFL. The Collingwood spokesman declined to respond to questions about the policy. An AFL spokesman said: ?Under AFL commercial operations guidelines, clubs are entitled to enter into sponsorship arrangements with a wagering partner if they choose?. He added that no club in the AFL had a current sponsorship arrangement with Sportsbet. Tech giants? share doubles in five years The payments made to individuals pale in comparison to those made to tech multinationals such as Google, Facebook, Twitter and Bing. Google Asia Pacific $36.8M Adobe $3.0M Twitter $2.9M Google Australia $25M Facebook $18.7M The share of Sportsbet?s advertising and promotional budget going to tech companies doubled between 2013 and 2017, rising from 13 per cent to 26 per cent, or more than $25 million. Google alone took $18 million in 2017 - nine times the spend in 2013 - while in 2017, $5.6 million went to Facebook, compared with $820,000 in 2013. In the five-and-a-half-years to June 2018, Sportsbet paid Google and Facebook $61.8 million and $18.7 million, respectively. Sportsbet?s strategy for promotion relies heavily on satirical videos posted online, with the documents showing it paid $2.8 million to Twitter and $2.2 million to YouTube in the five-and-a-half-years to June 2018. Other social media platforms like Snapchat received more than $210,000 for advertising. The company has even advertised on dating platforms, paying $41,000 to Tinder and $10,000 to Grindr. Gambling researcher Samantha Thomas told 7.30 that children risked being ?swept up? in the saturated promotion of gambling on social media. ?One of our concerns in particular with social media advertising is that it?s not visible to parents,? she said. ?They?re on tablets, they?re on mobile phones and parents may not be aware of the extent to which children are being exposed to these promotions on platforms.? A spokeswoman for Google said: ?We have robust advertising policies in relation to gambling ads. If we discover ads that break this policy, we take swift action.? There is some evidence to suggest that Sportsbet?s advertising strategies may have encouraged children to sign up with them. A recent decision by the NT gambling regulator found that Sportsbet failed to verify the identities of 1,500 new customers in 2015, which led to a minor being able to sign up for a Sportsbet account. The Racing Commission described it as a ?very serious breach? and fined Sportsbet $13,000. A Sportsbet spokesman said the company ?directs its advertising to adults and employs a range of sophisticated measures to ensure wagering advertising does not target minors, including using age-gating technology across social media platforms.? Associate professor Thomas said research showed that gambling advertising warranted a similar approach to the restrictions placed on tobacco advertising. ?What we had with tobacco - that was clearly incredibly influential in preventing the next generation of smokers - was a comprehensive framework that regulated all types of advertising,? she said. ?At the moment social media is a little bit like the wild west.? Such a framework might bring social media advertising more in line with advertising on traditional media platforms like television and radio, which is subject to strict rules on when ads can be aired and what they can say. TCN-9 Sydney $43.3M Fox Footy Channel $21.2M QTQ-9Brisbane $17.6M GTV-9 Melbourne $14.7M HSV-7 Melbourne $13.1M And despite the surge in payments to tech companies, traditional media companies continued to take the lion?s share of Sportsbet?s advertising budget. These companies reaped roughly 50 per cent of spend in 2017, up from 44 per cent in 2013. In the five-and-a-half years to June 2018, broadcast networks including Channel Nine together earned more than $270 million. Your loss, their payday Part of Sportsbet?s advertising strategy is an extensive network of more than 600 ?affiliate? websites. These third-party websites offer punters a whole range of services such as tips on races or reviews of the major gambling companies in Australia. Because they attract bettors, gambling companies see them as a rich ground for potential customers. Multi Channel - Online $13.2M Racenet.com.au $9.2M PuntersParadise $6.4M What isn?t always clear to bettors is that these affiliate websites receive commissions - sometimes for years - when bettors visit affiliate websites then sign up to gamble with Sportsbet. The more money gambled (and lost), the greater the commission. Affiliated sites and media marketing companies pocketed more than $111 million of Sportsbet?s promotional spend in the five-and-half-years to June 2018, despite their share falling from 36 per cent to 21 per cent over that period. Previously, according to Sportsbet?s standard affiliate terms and conditions, affiliates would potentially continue to earn a commission from a referred customer for as long as that customer continued to gamble with Sportsbet. One former Sportsbet affiliate, Daniel Kirk, who has been running the betting site Sportspunter since 2001, spoke to 7.30 about his dealings with the company. He confirmed many of the details around affiliate agreements but said that there was great mistrust of the company among smaller players. Since 2013, Sportsbet had introduced changes to the terms of its affiliate deals that had effectively left the operators of many small websites, including his own, without incomes, Kirk said. ?Sportsbet do prey upon taking advantage of people losing and avoiding people that might beat them,? he said. ?At the end of the day they were just thinking about how they were going to save their business money.? Affiliate arrangements have also faced criticism from consumer groups because they incentivise affiliate operators to encourage people to gamble. Levin told 7.30 that there was a much greater need to regulate affiliates. ?The affiliates, if they?re acting rationally, would be encouraging a person to keep losing because they only get paid when the person loses.? A Sportsbet spokesman said the company had made significant changes to its affiliate program in 2016, which led to a 90 per cent reduction in affiliates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Thu Mar 7 07:37:06 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 07:37:06 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] TAB trader Sally Snow resigns after being warned off by Racing NSW stewards Message-ID: <000b01d4d45c$5e9156d0$1bb40470$@ozemail.com.au> TAB trader Sally Snow resigns after being warned off by Racing NSW stewards Ray Thomas, The Daily Telegraph March 6, 2019 12:17pm Subscriber only * Sally Snow, a high profile Taborp executive, has been warned off racetracks amid allegations of improper betting activities. Racing NSW on Wednesday revealed Snow, the senior Trading Manager for TAB's Fixed Odds operation, had been banned from entering racetracks, having an interest in any racehorses or betting on races following her failure to adhere to the directions of stewards during an inquiry. The warning off is effective immediately and it is usual practice for other racing jurisdictions worldwide to adopt the penalty. Snow, the wife of prominent Sydney punter Nathan Snow and mother of three, tendered her resignation from TAB on Wednesday morning. Sally Snow has been warned off by Racing NSW stewards. Picture: Jake Nowakowski She has been the face of TAB Fixed Odds promotions and was regularly seen in print and electronic media. Snow has also operated the TAB Fixed Odds bookmakers stand on track in the Sydney rails ring during major carnival meeting. Racing NSW chief executive Peter V'landys said Snow refused to provide her mobile phone to stewards and was warned off after "obstructing and hindering" a stewards investigation into betting activities. Stewards repeatedly warned Snow, that "failure to co-operate would be subject to sanction without further notice, including possibility of being warned off until she did fully co-operate." It is understood stewards wanted access to betting records as part of an investigation into the licensing of a racehorse syndication business run by Mr Snow and another professional punter. Sally Snow, the daughter of Sydney bookmaker Gary Clarke, did not return calls from The Daily Telegraph on Wednesday. In Racing NSW media statement, it read: "Mrs Snow refused to produce her mobile telephone(s) for imaging, as directed, on the basis that she wished to assert her common law privilege against self-incrimination and also informed the Racing NSW Stewards that (she) also intended to assert common law privilege against self-incrimination and not provide any information or evidence at any inquiry.'' Sally Snow has been the face of TAB Fixed Odds promotions and worked on the Sydney rails ring during major carnival meetings. Picture: John Feder "Mrs Snow's refusal to co-operate with Racing NSW Stewards has obstructed and hindered them in investigating matters that are potentially of serious concern,'' V'landys said. "Racing NSW has zero tolerance for those that obstruct and hinder the maintenance of the integrity of thoroughbred racing in NSW. "We have set a precedent in warning off, and/or excluding from participation, those persons that jeopardise the integrity of racing and it is important that we maintain that strong stance. "Even though Mrs Snow has refused to co-operate, we will continue to pursue the matter to ensure the integrity of thoroughbred racing has not been compromised." TAB put out a media release on Wednesday confirming Snow's resignation while determining to work closely with Racing NSW stewards to progress this issue. "The integrity of racing and sport is paramount,'' the statement read. "Tabcorp works closely with racing and sports controlling bodies when asked to assist with their inquiries. "Sally Snow has made the decision to resign from Tabcorp. As this matter is subject to a stewards' inquiry it would be inappropriate to comment further.'' The warning off will remain in place until Snow co-operates fully to the satisfaction of Racing NSW and its stewards. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Mon Mar 11 10:18:48 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 10:18:48 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Neds' scam Message-ID: <003501d4d797$9f1bf4b0$dd53de10$@ozemail.com.au> At 11:19 Sydney time on Saturday, I received a SMS from Neds "Back a runner in R1-4 at Randwick & Flemington and if it places 2nd or 3rd, get up to $50 in Bonus Bets". So I immediately placed 8 $50 bets. At 12:16 Sydney time, Neds welched "Ooops, we accidently sent you the wrong message.". No offer to cancel the bets, no honouring a commitment that induced me, and I presume others, to bet. And of course no reply to my complaint. SCUM. When a punter makes a mistake, eg backing #6 instead of #5 on-line, we are stuck with it, but not these SCUM. LBL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From racestats at hotmail.com Mon Mar 11 17:51:35 2019 From: racestats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 06:51:35 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Neds' scam In-Reply-To: <003501d4d797$9f1bf4b0$dd53de10$@ozemail.com.au> References: <003501d4d797$9f1bf4b0$dd53de10$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Len, That doesn?t wash for Neds because they?ve been advertising it all over the TV and Internet all week! You?re right they are scum and you have a legal right to your money back. Lindsay Sent from my iPhone On 11 Mar 2019, at 10:20 am, L.B.Loveday > wrote: At 11:19 Sydney time on Saturday, I received a SMS from Neds "Back a runner in R1-4 at Randwick & Flemington and if it places 2nd or 3rd, get up to $50 in Bonus Bets". So I immediately placed 8 $50 bets. At 12:16 Sydney time, Neds welched "Ooops, we accidently sent you the wrong message?". No offer to cancel the bets, no honouring a commitment that induced me, and I presume others, to bet. And of course no reply to my complaint. SCUM. When a punter makes a mistake, eg backing #6 instead of #5 on-line, we are stuck with it, but not these SCUM. LBL _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 19 08:44:01 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 08:44:01 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] BetEasy defies MBL legislation Message-ID: <000b01d4ddd3$b47dd390$1d797ab0$@ozemail.com.au> Look at what BetEasy are doing - even when I'm logged in it shows the true odds, but when I bet, am offered a lower price "Price has changed". Same happens on DynamicOdds. Racing Revolution went out to 5.50, but when I clicked to bet, came down to 5.00 for me. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: oledata.mso Type: application/octet-stream Size: 135180 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 38454 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25926 bytes Desc: not available URL: From seanmac4321 at gmail.com Tue Mar 19 10:30:31 2019 From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 09:30:31 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] BetEasy defies MBL legislation In-Reply-To: <000b01d4ddd3$b47dd390$1d797ab0$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000b01d4ddd3$b47dd390$1d797ab0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Len I was on WA Tab touch site a while back. Same thing. Fixed price 5.50 I was rushed and went click click click and didn't really think that the price could change. Lock and load. I rechecked because I saw something wasnt right. Sure enough I got $2.54. It won. It wasn't a large wager. Cheers Sean On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 07:44 L.B.Loveday, wrote: > Look at what BetEasy are doing - even when I'm logged in it shows the true > odds, but when I bet, am offered a lower price "Price has changed". Same > happens on DynamicOdds. > > Racing Revolution went out to 5.50, but when I clicked to bet, came down > to 5.00 for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 25926 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Tue Mar 19 11:33:18 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 11:33:18 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] BetEasy defies MBL legislation In-Reply-To: References: <000b01d4ddd3$b47dd390$1d797ab0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <002b01d4ddeb$5b867ae0$129370a0$@ozemail.com.au> It has been suggested they are doing it to all SA residents because of the more-immoral-than-the-others higher POC tax. WilliamHill (RIH) used to do the same to me (and plenty of others), displaying reduced odds across the board - one set when I accessed the site, all changed when I logged on, but at least at MBL time offered the correct odds. Complaints to racing NSW of course went unheeded - I accept they can knock back bets pre-MBL time, but the legislation prohibits offering different odds to different punters. William Hill used to run WA's fixed odds, don't know who is now, but from the prices, it's not Crown. From: Racing On Behalf Of sean mclaren Sent: Tuesday, 19 March 2019 10:31 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] BetEasy defies MBL legislation Len I was on WA Tab touch site a while back. Same thing. Fixed price 5.50 I was rushed and went click click click and didn't really think that the price could change. Lock and load. I rechecked because I saw something wasnt right. Sure enough I got $2.54. It won. It wasn't a large wager. Cheers Sean On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 07:44 L.B.Loveday, > wrote: Look at what BetEasy are doing - even when I'm logged in it shows the true odds, but when I bet, am offered a lower price "Price has changed". Same happens on DynamicOdds. Racing Revolution went out to 5.50, but when I clicked to bet, came down to 5.00 for me. _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Wed Mar 20 16:02:24 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 13:02:24 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air Message-ID: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/Thoroughbred/Racing-Calendar/Video-Repla ys/Race-Video/CRNS/20190316/6 last and sooled up after turning - The Harrovian at Cairns recently cheers --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From RaceStats at hotmail.com Wed Mar 20 16:11:55 2019 From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 05:11:55 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air In-Reply-To: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> References: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: Tony, That was some run alright! Lindsay -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2019 4:02 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/Thoroughbred/Racing-Calendar/Video-Repla ys/Race-Video/CRNS/20190316/6 last and sooled up after turning - The Harrovian at Cairns recently cheers --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From seanmac4321 at gmail.com Wed Mar 20 16:52:42 2019 From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 15:52:42 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air In-Reply-To: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> References: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: well done tony ..... nice patient ride .... just let the horse find its feet On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 3:03 PM Tony Moffat wrote: > > https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/Thoroughbred/Racing-Calendar/Video-Repla > ys/Race-Video/CRNS/20190316/6 > > > last and sooled up after turning - The Harrovian at Cairns recently > > cheers > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Mar 20 18:35:09 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:35:09 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air In-Reply-To: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> References: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <008601d4deef$73ddc210$5b994630$@ozemail.com.au> Hawkesbury Race 7 had a late scratching #1. TAB deducted 7c the place; Sportsbet and Sportsbetting deducted 2c. This video is off-horse-racing, the last lap of a 400m relay at the Irish University Championships, but what a finish - I watch it every few months! https://youtu.be/QCbyx0MqOPg -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2019 16:02 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/Thoroughbred/Racing-Calendar/Video-Repla ys/Race-Video/CRNS/20190316/6 last and sooled up after turning - The Harrovian at Cairns recently cheers --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Wed Mar 20 21:38:19 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 18:38:19 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] FW: With a leg in the air In-Reply-To: <008601d4deef$73ddc210$5b994630$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> <008601d4deef$73ddc210$5b994630$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <000c01d4df09$09872ae0$1c9580a0$@bigpond.com> https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00560.2011 not a video but a scholarly look at horse racing (particularly on a decline - horses have difficulty with this) A few reads and it seems to unravel - note, this is not the same as a few reds and gazing at your navel. There has been a 3.28 mile in NZ, which might be 19 seconds better than the best elsewhere, but it was on an incline, and an explanation of the Boston Marathon, why the records there are not shared, allowed, again because of the down slope and the separation of the start to finish, a breeze may have assisted all over the course, and we thought those out and back courses were for the benefit of Tv. Next up COT - cost of transport - which is a long-hair way of saying and explaining energy usage in running a race for horses. Cheers Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 3:35 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] With a leg in the air Hawkesbury Race 7 had a late scratching #1. TAB deducted 7c the place; Sportsbet and Sportsbetting deducted 2c. This video is off-horse-racing, the last lap of a 400m relay at the Irish University Championships, but what a finish - I watch it every few months! https://youtu.be/QCbyx0MqOPg -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2019 16:02 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/Thoroughbred/Racing-Calendar/Video-Repla ys/Race-Video/CRNS/20190316/6 last and sooled up after turning - The Harrovian at Cairns recently cheers --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From robbie at robwaterhouse.com Thu Mar 21 10:54:29 2019 From: robbie at robwaterhouse.com (Rob Waterhouse) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 10:54:29 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air In-Reply-To: <008601d4deef$73ddc210$5b994630$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000001d4deda$1bd70460$53850d20$@bigpond.com> <008601d4deef$73ddc210$5b994630$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <075b01d4df78$42449f10$c6cddd30$@robwaterhouse.com> outstanding -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2019 6:35 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] With a leg in the air Hawkesbury Race 7 had a late scratching #1. TAB deducted 7c the place; Sportsbet and Sportsbetting deducted 2c. This video is off-horse-racing, the last lap of a 400m relay at the Irish University Championships, but what a finish - I watch it every few months! https://youtu.be/QCbyx0MqOPg -----Original Message----- From: Racing On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2019 16:02 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] With a leg in the air https://www.racingqueensland.com.au/Thoroughbred/Racing-Calendar/Video-Repla ys/Race-Video/CRNS/20190316/6 last and sooled up after turning - The Harrovian at Cairns recently cheers --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Thu Mar 21 17:13:13 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 14:13:13 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] The SP, a shark, and the long arm of the Law Message-ID: <000b01d4dfad$2ae4a1f0$80ade5d0$@bigpond.com> When fishing off a small boat just outside the breakers at Coogee a 14 foot tiger shark was snared. That is big, and on braid, it being pre-nylon in 1935 when this happened. The shark was trailed ashore and taken over by the aquarium nearby. The shark disgorged a complete human arm and had not eaten anything while being observed. The arm had tattoos of two boxers, the hands were fingerprinted and these matched SP Jimmy Smith. There was a summation that Smith had cheated on other crime figures, not SP related though, and that Reginald Holmes was involved, and further, Smith had been lured to a seaside house to meet Patrick Brady and Brady had been recruited by Holmes to murder Smith. The arm was severed from the body, and shown as proof of the deed most foul having been completed, and the arm was thrown in the sea to dispose of it, and this allows the entry of the shark to this story. Later, on the harbour now, the Police were called to the matter of an out of control launch and on this launch the found Holmes with a bullet wound, to the head. Holmes maintained he had been shot by an unknown man, and again there was a summation that Holmes had meant to suicide but this failed, it has to be said, and Holmes was treated by a nurse and allowed to go home. Brady gave series of statements and records or interview to Police, and Detectives charged Brady with murder, of Smith. Later, before the inquest of the presence of the arm, Holmes was found dead at Dawes Point, near the Bridge, murdered by shooting, 3 times under the heart with a .32" calibre firearm. Holmes widow told the inquest that her husband told her that Brady killed Smith, no specifics known. The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is. Further, an arm did not constitute a body, and Smith may well be alive, without his arm. Although not habeas corpus, it kind of is. Brady was acquitted after inquest evidence was allowed and admitted. Smith was a SP in a South Coast town, the other SP was the Undertaker. Apart from his perceived dislike by Holmes, Smith appears harmless. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Thu Mar 21 17:43:11 2019 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 17:43:11 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] The SP, a shark, and the long arm of the Law In-Reply-To: <000b01d4dfad$2ae4a1f0$80ade5d0$@bigpond.com> References: <000b01d4dfad$2ae4a1f0$80ade5d0$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: "The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is." Which places the conviction of George Pell in its proper context. On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 17:13, Tony Moffat wrote: > When fishing off a small boat just outside the breakers at Coogee a 14 foot > tiger shark was snared. > That is big, and on braid, it being pre-nylon in 1935 when this happened. > The shark was trailed ashore and taken over by the aquarium nearby. > > The shark disgorged a complete human arm and had not eaten anything while > being observed. > > The arm had tattoos of two boxers, the hands were fingerprinted and these > matched SP Jimmy Smith. > > There was a summation that Smith had cheated on other crime figures, not SP > related though, and that Reginald Holmes > was involved, and further, Smith had been lured to a seaside house to meet > Patrick Brady and Brady had been recruited by > Holmes to murder Smith. The arm was severed from the body, and shown as > proof of the deed most foul having been completed, and the arm was > thrown in the sea to dispose of it, and this allows the entry of the shark > to this story. > > Later, on the harbour now, the Police were called to the matter of an out > of > control launch and on this launch the found > Holmes with a bullet wound, to the head. Holmes maintained he had been shot > by an unknown man, and again there was a summation that > Holmes had meant to suicide but this failed, it has to be said, and Holmes > was treated by a nurse and allowed to go home. > > Brady gave series of statements and records or interview to Police, and > Detectives charged Brady with murder, of Smith. > > Later, before the inquest of the presence of the arm, Holmes was found dead > at Dawes Point, near the Bridge, murdered > by shooting, 3 times under the heart with a .32" calibre firearm. > > Holmes widow told the inquest that her husband told her that Brady killed > Smith, no specifics known. > > The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs > corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is. > Further, an arm did not constitute a body, and Smith may well be alive, > without his arm. Although not habeas corpus, it kind of is. > > Brady was acquitted after inquest evidence was allowed and admitted. > > Smith was a SP in a South Coast town, the other SP was the Undertaker. > Apart > from his perceived dislike by Holmes, Smith appears harmless. > > Cheers > > Tony > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robbie at robwaterhouse.com Thu Mar 21 18:34:19 2019 From: robbie at robwaterhouse.com (Rob Waterhouse) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 18:34:19 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Pell Message-ID: <086801d4dfb8$7ee04330$7ca0c990$@robwaterhouse.com> THE AUSTRALIAN Pell case attracts inaccurate views GERARD HENDERSON R v George Pell was one of the highest-profile cases in the history of criminal law in Australia. Similar in its news impact to Lindy Chamberlain?s conviction (followed by acquittal) in the 20th century and Ned Kelly?s conviction (followed by hanging) in the 19th century. As such, it is more important than usual for reporters and commentators to be factual ? especially in view of the international attention the case has attracted. Unfortunately, the coverage so far has had many blemishes ? which go to a basic misunderstanding of the law and how it operates. On Wednesday, ABC TV?s The Drum devoted the first half of the program to a discussion on Pell?s sentencing, following his conviction in December last year by a jury of 12. Victoria, unlike such jurisdictions as NSW and Queensland, does not provide for trial by judge alone. Early in The Drum?s discussion, presenter Craig Reucassel said emphatically that ?a judge and 12 individuals have found him guilty?. This is hopelessly wrong. If Reucassel had studied Chief Judge Peter Kidd?s sentencing remarks, he would know that, early on, the judge had this to say: ?I must at law give full effect to the jury?s verdict; it is not for me to second-guess the verdict.? Later on, when referring to the matter that the spontaneous attacks took place at St Patrick?s Cathedral in a room with the door open, he said: ?If I am required to identify other By GERARD HENDERSON, COLUMNIST 12:00AM MARCH 16, 2019 explanations as to why you (Pell) were prepared to take on the risk of somebody walking in on you into the priests? sacristy, then I do. ?By the jury?s verdict, this offending occurred, and no one walked into the priests? sacristy while you were offending. These are the facts which I must act on.? In other words, Kidd made it clear ? and properly so ? that his role as the trial judge is to accept the jury?s verdict as fact without second-guessing its decision. Reucassel should have known this, as should his producer, who could have advised an onair correction but apparently did not. In the discussion, panellist Shivani Gopal claimed that Pell offending against one of the boys, called ?R?, resulted in his death. In fact, the sentencing judge said that ?it is common ground between the parties that R?s death is not related to the offending against R?. Reucassel did correct this error. However, he said nothing when Gopal criticised Pell?s sixyear sentence as too soft, claiming that white-collar criminals ?go to jail for life?. This is mere hyperbole and quite unfair to Kidd. It can always be argued that a particular sentence is too soft or too hard. However, it seems in this case the sentence was about right for the charges on which the jury found the defendant guilty. Pell would have received a shorter sentence if he had pleaded guilty but he maintains his innocence and his appeal will be heard by the Victorian Court of Appeal in early June. Without regard to the sentence, it is important to remember that Kidd said that Pell had led ?an otherwise blameless life in the 22 years since the offending? in 1996. He also referred to Pell?s ?otherwise good character?. The errors in commentary about R v George Pell did not stop at the ABC. Just after the sentencing findings were handed down, Derryn Hinch tweeted that the judge ?saw right through him (Pell)?. This despite the fact that Kidd had said that, by law, he had to accept the jury?s decision. Then on Thursday, Ray Hadley led off his high-rating 2GB/4BC program with the claim that Pell?s appeal would only be with respect to law, not facts. Two out of three matters involve questions of law. However, the principal grounds of appeal are that the verdicts are unreasonable having regard to the evidence. Pell?s appeal grounds are contained in a public document that is available to Hadley and all his listeners. There is no excuse for error. Graham Richardson normally talks a lot of sense. But he was not in the best of form at the start of his Sky News program Richo on Wednesday. Richardson claimed that, with respect to Pell, ?there?s been this massive effort with silence orders and things to try and make no one have an idea about what?s going on?. He added: ?I mean, if you?re George Pell, you can get that. I think that if I was on trial for pedophilia tomorrow, I?d have Buckley?s at having my name removed ? I think everyone would be speaking it. It?s just something I think the church has handled badly for so long.? In fact the suppression orders in the Pell case were issued by the Victorian County Court and were supported by the Office of Public Prosecutions. They were designed to make it possible for Pell to get a fair trial in a subsequent case. This prosecution was dropped by the Victorian OPP when it determined that there was insufficient evidence for a conviction ? and the suppression order was lifted. In any event, suppression orders do not work in the age of social media. Moreover, I am aware of one suppression order in a current pedophile case where the defendant is neither well known nor a Catholic. It is to be hoped that ill-informed media comment dissipates in the lead-up to the appeal. This is likely to be one of the most important legal cases in recent years. As The Age?s crime reporter John Silvester has put it, the Court of Appeal has to consider whether a verdict is safe in a case where the defendant ?was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt on the uncorroborated evidence of one witness, without forensic evidence, a pattern of behaviour or a confession.? Whatever the outcome of the appeal, this decision will set a precedent of far greater significance than either the Chamberlain or Kelly cases. Gerard Henderson is executive director of the Sydney Institute. His Media Watch Dog blog can be found at theaustralian.com.au. GERARD HENDERSON, COLUMNIST Gerard Henderson is an Australian author, columnist and political commentator. He is the Executive Director of the Sydney Institute, a privately funded Australian current affairs forum. His Media Watch Dog colu... Read more From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2019 5:43 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] The SP, a shark, and the long arm of the Law "The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is." Which places the conviction of George Pell in its proper context. On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 17:13, Tony Moffat > wrote: When fishing off a small boat just outside the breakers at Coogee a 14 foot tiger shark was snared. That is big, and on braid, it being pre-nylon in 1935 when this happened. The shark was trailed ashore and taken over by the aquarium nearby. The shark disgorged a complete human arm and had not eaten anything while being observed. The arm had tattoos of two boxers, the hands were fingerprinted and these matched SP Jimmy Smith. There was a summation that Smith had cheated on other crime figures, not SP related though, and that Reginald Holmes was involved, and further, Smith had been lured to a seaside house to meet Patrick Brady and Brady had been recruited by Holmes to murder Smith. The arm was severed from the body, and shown as proof of the deed most foul having been completed, and the arm was thrown in the sea to dispose of it, and this allows the entry of the shark to this story. Later, on the harbour now, the Police were called to the matter of an out of control launch and on this launch the found Holmes with a bullet wound, to the head. Holmes maintained he had been shot by an unknown man, and again there was a summation that Holmes had meant to suicide but this failed, it has to be said, and Holmes was treated by a nurse and allowed to go home. Brady gave series of statements and records or interview to Police, and Detectives charged Brady with murder, of Smith. Later, before the inquest of the presence of the arm, Holmes was found dead at Dawes Point, near the Bridge, murdered by shooting, 3 times under the heart with a .32" calibre firearm. Holmes widow told the inquest that her husband told her that Brady killed Smith, no specifics known. The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is. Further, an arm did not constitute a body, and Smith may well be alive, without his arm. Although not habeas corpus, it kind of is. Brady was acquitted after inquest evidence was allowed and admitted. Smith was a SP in a South Coast town, the other SP was the Undertaker. Apart from his perceived dislike by Holmes, Smith appears harmless. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Thu Mar 21 21:21:44 2019 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 21:21:44 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Pell In-Reply-To: <086801d4dfb8$7ee04330$7ca0c990$@robwaterhouse.com> References: <086801d4dfb8$7ee04330$7ca0c990$@robwaterhouse.com> Message-ID: Quite. A very dangerous precedent. An obvious stitch up and national disgrace. Another one. On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 18:34, Rob Waterhouse wrote: > *THE AUSTRALIAN* > > *Pell case attracts inaccurate views* > > GERARD HENDERSON > > R v George Pell was one of the highest-profile cases in the history of > criminal law in > > Australia. Similar in its news impact to Lindy Chamberlain?s conviction > (followed by > > acquittal) in the 20th century and Ned Kelly?s conviction (followed by > hanging) in the 19th > > century. > > As such, it is more important than usual for reporters and commentators to > be factual ? > > especially in view of the international attention the case has attracted. > Unfortunately, the > > coverage so far has had many blemishes ? which go to a basic > misunderstanding of the law > > and how it operates. > > On Wednesday, ABC TV?s *The Drum *devoted the first half of the program > to a discussion > > on Pell?s sentencing, following his conviction in December last year by a > jury of 12. > > Victoria, unlike such jurisdictions as NSW and Queensland, does not > provide for trial by > > judge alone. > > Early in *The Drum*?s discussion, presenter Craig Reucassel said > emphatically that ?a judge > > and 12 individuals have found him guilty?. This is hopelessly wrong. > > If Reucassel had studied Chief Judge Peter Kidd?s sentencing remarks, he > would know that, > > early on, the judge had this to say: ?I must at law give full effect to > the jury?s verdict; it is > > not for me to second-guess the verdict.? > > Later on, when referring to the matter that the spontaneous attacks took > place at St Patrick?s > > Cathedral in a room with the door open, he said: ?If I am required to > identify other > > By *GERARD HENDERSON*, COLUMNIST > > 12:00AM MARCH 16, 2019 > > explanations as to why you (Pell) were prepared to take on the risk of > somebody walking in > > on you into the priests? sacristy, then I do. > > ?By the jury?s verdict, this offending occurred, and no one walked into > the priests? sacristy > > while you were offending. These are the facts which I must act on.? > > In other words, Kidd made it clear ? and properly so ? that his role as > the trial judge is to > > accept the jury?s verdict as fact without second-guessing its decision. > > Reucassel should have known this, as should his producer, who could have > advised an onair > > correction but apparently did not. > > In the discussion, panellist Shivani Gopal claimed that Pell offending > against one of the > > boys, called ?R?, resulted in his death. In fact, the sentencing judge > said that ?it is common > > ground between the parties that R?s death is not related to the offending > against R?. > > Reucassel did correct this error. However, he said nothing when Gopal > criticised Pell?s sixyear > > sentence as too soft, claiming that white-collar criminals ?go to jail > for life?. > > This is mere hyperbole and quite unfair to Kidd. It can always be argued > that a particular > > sentence is too soft or too hard. However, it seems in this case the > sentence was about right > > for the charges on which the jury found the defendant guilty. > > Pell would have received a shorter sentence if he had pleaded guilty but > he maintains his > > innocence and his appeal will be heard by the Victorian Court of Appeal in > early June. > > Without regard to the sentence, it is important to remember that Kidd said > that Pell had led > > ?an otherwise blameless life in the 22 years since the offending? in > 1996. He also referred to > > Pell?s ?otherwise good character?. > > The errors in commentary about R v George Pell did not stop at the ABC. > Just after the > > sentencing findings were handed down, Derryn Hinch tweeted that the judge > ?saw right > > through him (Pell)?. This despite the fact that Kidd had said that, by > law, he had to accept > > the jury?s decision. > > Then on Thursday, Ray Hadley led off his high-rating 2GB/4BC program with > the claim > > that Pell?s appeal would only be with respect to law, not facts. Two out > of three matters > > involve questions of law. However, the principal grounds of appeal are > that the verdicts are > > unreasonable having regard to the evidence. Pell?s appeal grounds are > contained in a public > > document that is available to Hadley and all his listeners. There is no > excuse for error. > > Graham Richardson normally talks a lot of sense. But he was not in the > best of form at the > > start of his Sky News program *Richo *on Wednesday. > > Richardson claimed that, with respect to Pell, ?there?s been this massive > effort with silence > > orders and things to try and make no one have an idea about what?s going > on?. He added: ?I > > mean, if you?re George Pell, you can get that. I think that if I was on > trial for pedophilia > > tomorrow, I?d have Buckley?s at having my name removed ? I think everyone > would be > > speaking it. It?s just something I think the church has handled badly for > so long.? > > In fact the suppression orders in the Pell case were issued by the > Victorian County Court > > and were supported by the Office of Public Prosecutions. > > They were designed to make it possible for Pell to get a fair trial in a > subsequent case. This > > prosecution was dropped by the Victorian OPP when it determined that there > was > > insufficient evidence for a conviction ? and the suppression order was > lifted. > > In any event, suppression orders do not work in the age of social media. > > Moreover, I am aware of one suppression order in a current pedophile case > where the > > defendant is neither well known nor a Catholic. > > It is to be hoped that ill-informed media comment dissipates in the > lead-up to the appeal. > > This is likely to be one of the most important legal cases in recent years. > > As *The Age*?s crime reporter John Silvester has put it, the Court of > Appeal has to consider > > whether a verdict is safe in a case where the defendant ?was found guilty > beyond reasonable > > doubt on the uncorroborated evidence of one witness, without forensic > evidence, a pattern > > of behaviour or a confession.? > > Whatever the outcome of the appeal, this decision will set a precedent of > far greater > > significance than either the Chamberlain or Kelly cases. > > *Gerard Henderson is executive director of the Sydney Institute. His Media > Watch Dog blog* > > *can be found at theaustralian.com.au .* > > GERARD HENDERSON, COLUMNIST > > Gerard Henderson is an Australian author, columnist and political > commentator. He is the Executive > > Director of the Sydney Institute, a privately funded Australian current > affairs forum. His Media Watch > > Dog colu... Read more > > > > *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of * > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > *Sent:* Thursday, 21 March 2019 5:43 PM > *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] The SP, a shark, and the long arm of the Law > > > > "The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs > corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is." > > > > Which places the conviction of George Pell in its proper context. > > > > On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 17:13, Tony Moffat wrote: > > When fishing off a small boat just outside the breakers at Coogee a 14 foot > tiger shark was snared. > That is big, and on braid, it being pre-nylon in 1935 when this happened. > The shark was trailed ashore and taken over by the aquarium nearby. > > The shark disgorged a complete human arm and had not eaten anything while > being observed. > > The arm had tattoos of two boxers, the hands were fingerprinted and these > matched SP Jimmy Smith. > > There was a summation that Smith had cheated on other crime figures, not SP > related though, and that Reginald Holmes > was involved, and further, Smith had been lured to a seaside house to meet > Patrick Brady and Brady had been recruited by > Holmes to murder Smith. The arm was severed from the body, and shown as > proof of the deed most foul having been completed, and the arm was > thrown in the sea to dispose of it, and this allows the entry of the shark > to this story. > > Later, on the harbour now, the Police were called to the matter of an out > of > control launch and on this launch the found > Holmes with a bullet wound, to the head. Holmes maintained he had been shot > by an unknown man, and again there was a summation that > Holmes had meant to suicide but this failed, it has to be said, and Holmes > was treated by a nurse and allowed to go home. > > Brady gave series of statements and records or interview to Police, and > Detectives charged Brady with murder, of Smith. > > Later, before the inquest of the presence of the arm, Holmes was found dead > at Dawes Point, near the Bridge, murdered > by shooting, 3 times under the heart with a .32" calibre firearm. > > Holmes widow told the inquest that her husband told her that Brady killed > Smith, no specifics known. > > The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs > corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is. > Further, an arm did not constitute a body, and Smith may well be alive, > without his arm. Although not habeas corpus, it kind of is. > > Brady was acquitted after inquest evidence was allowed and admitted. > > Smith was a SP in a South Coast town, the other SP was the Undertaker. > Apart > from his perceived dislike by Holmes, Smith appears harmless. > > Cheers > > Tony > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RaceStats at hotmail.com Thu Mar 21 23:21:13 2019 From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 12:21:13 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Pell In-Reply-To: References: <086801d4dfb8$7ee04330$7ca0c990$@robwaterhouse.com> Message-ID: Couldn?t agree more! There were no witnesses, there were errors in the boy?s testimony, Pell does not fit the profile of a paedophile and nothing has happened in the last 22 years nor prior. The guilty priests have set a precedent for the jury, and they judged him on that and the boy (man?s testimony) which cannot be verified in any way. They simply believed the boy (man). Notice when the sentencing was read out, there were no images of Pell whatsoever. In Police interviews, Pell claimed it could never have happened because he was outside, the choir master looked after the boys and the wine was always under lock and key. There was always someone in the pre sacristy and sacristy. Why would Pell not have locked the door??? A complete stitch up. All it takes is someone to accuse you of something, without evidence nor witnesses and you?re completely stuffed! Lindsay. From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2019 9:22 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Pell Quite. A very dangerous precedent. An obvious stitch up and national disgrace. Another one. On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 18:34, Rob Waterhouse > wrote: THE AUSTRALIAN Pell case attracts inaccurate views GERARD HENDERSON R v George Pell was one of the highest-profile cases in the history of criminal law in Australia. Similar in its news impact to Lindy Chamberlain?s conviction (followed by acquittal) in the 20th century and Ned Kelly?s conviction (followed by hanging) in the 19th century. As such, it is more important than usual for reporters and commentators to be factual ? especially in view of the international attention the case has attracted. Unfortunately, the coverage so far has had many blemishes ? which go to a basic misunderstanding of the law and how it operates. On Wednesday, ABC TV?s The Drum devoted the first half of the program to a discussion on Pell?s sentencing, following his conviction in December last year by a jury of 12. Victoria, unlike such jurisdictions as NSW and Queensland, does not provide for trial by judge alone. Early in The Drum?s discussion, presenter Craig Reucassel said emphatically that ?a judge and 12 individuals have found him guilty?. This is hopelessly wrong. If Reucassel had studied Chief Judge Peter Kidd?s sentencing remarks, he would know that, early on, the judge had this to say: ?I must at law give full effect to the jury?s verdict; it is not for me to second-guess the verdict.? Later on, when referring to the matter that the spontaneous attacks took place at St Patrick?s Cathedral in a room with the door open, he said: ?If I am required to identify other By GERARD HENDERSON, COLUMNIST 12:00AM MARCH 16, 2019 explanations as to why you (Pell) were prepared to take on the risk of somebody walking in on you into the priests? sacristy, then I do. ?By the jury?s verdict, this offending occurred, and no one walked into the priests? sacristy while you were offending. These are the facts which I must act on.? In other words, Kidd made it clear ? and properly so ? that his role as the trial judge is to accept the jury?s verdict as fact without second-guessing its decision. Reucassel should have known this, as should his producer, who could have advised an onair correction but apparently did not. In the discussion, panellist Shivani Gopal claimed that Pell offending against one of the boys, called ?R?, resulted in his death. In fact, the sentencing judge said that ?it is common ground between the parties that R?s death is not related to the offending against R?. Reucassel did correct this error. However, he said nothing when Gopal criticised Pell?s sixyear sentence as too soft, claiming that white-collar criminals ?go to jail for life?. This is mere hyperbole and quite unfair to Kidd. It can always be argued that a particular sentence is too soft or too hard. However, it seems in this case the sentence was about right for the charges on which the jury found the defendant guilty. Pell would have received a shorter sentence if he had pleaded guilty but he maintains his innocence and his appeal will be heard by the Victorian Court of Appeal in early June. Without regard to the sentence, it is important to remember that Kidd said that Pell had led ?an otherwise blameless life in the 22 years since the offending? in 1996. He also referred to Pell?s ?otherwise good character?. The errors in commentary about R v George Pell did not stop at the ABC. Just after the sentencing findings were handed down, Derryn Hinch tweeted that the judge ?saw right through him (Pell)?. This despite the fact that Kidd had said that, by law, he had to accept the jury?s decision. Then on Thursday, Ray Hadley led off his high-rating 2GB/4BC program with the claim that Pell?s appeal would only be with respect to law, not facts. Two out of three matters involve questions of law. However, the principal grounds of appeal are that the verdicts are unreasonable having regard to the evidence. Pell?s appeal grounds are contained in a public document that is available to Hadley and all his listeners. There is no excuse for error. Graham Richardson normally talks a lot of sense. But he was not in the best of form at the start of his Sky News program Richo on Wednesday. Richardson claimed that, with respect to Pell, ?there?s been this massive effort with silence orders and things to try and make no one have an idea about what?s going on?. He added: ?I mean, if you?re George Pell, you can get that. I think that if I was on trial for pedophilia tomorrow, I?d have Buckley?s at having my name removed ? I think everyone would be speaking it. It?s just something I think the church has handled badly for so long.? In fact the suppression orders in the Pell case were issued by the Victorian County Court and were supported by the Office of Public Prosecutions. They were designed to make it possible for Pell to get a fair trial in a subsequent case. This prosecution was dropped by the Victorian OPP when it determined that there was insufficient evidence for a conviction ? and the suppression order was lifted. In any event, suppression orders do not work in the age of social media. Moreover, I am aware of one suppression order in a current pedophile case where the defendant is neither well known nor a Catholic. It is to be hoped that ill-informed media comment dissipates in the lead-up to the appeal. This is likely to be one of the most important legal cases in recent years. As The Age?s crime reporter John Silvester has put it, the Court of Appeal has to consider whether a verdict is safe in a case where the defendant ?was found guilty beyond reasonable doubt on the uncorroborated evidence of one witness, without forensic evidence, a pattern of behaviour or a confession.? Whatever the outcome of the appeal, this decision will set a precedent of far greater significance than either the Chamberlain or Kelly cases. Gerard Henderson is executive director of the Sydney Institute. His Media Watch Dog blog can be found at theaustralian.com.au. GERARD HENDERSON, COLUMNIST Gerard Henderson is an Australian author, columnist and political commentator. He is the Executive Director of the Sydney Institute, a privately funded Australian current affairs forum. His Media Watch Dog colu... Read more From: Racing > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2019 5:43 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] The SP, a shark, and the long arm of the Law "The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is." Which places the conviction of George Pell in its proper context. On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 17:13, Tony Moffat > wrote: When fishing off a small boat just outside the breakers at Coogee a 14 foot tiger shark was snared. That is big, and on braid, it being pre-nylon in 1935 when this happened. The shark was trailed ashore and taken over by the aquarium nearby. The shark disgorged a complete human arm and had not eaten anything while being observed. The arm had tattoos of two boxers, the hands were fingerprinted and these matched SP Jimmy Smith. There was a summation that Smith had cheated on other crime figures, not SP related though, and that Reginald Holmes was involved, and further, Smith had been lured to a seaside house to meet Patrick Brady and Brady had been recruited by Holmes to murder Smith. The arm was severed from the body, and shown as proof of the deed most foul having been completed, and the arm was thrown in the sea to dispose of it, and this allows the entry of the shark to this story. Later, on the harbour now, the Police were called to the matter of an out of control launch and on this launch the found Holmes with a bullet wound, to the head. Holmes maintained he had been shot by an unknown man, and again there was a summation that Holmes had meant to suicide but this failed, it has to be said, and Holmes was treated by a nurse and allowed to go home. Brady gave series of statements and records or interview to Police, and Detectives charged Brady with murder, of Smith. Later, before the inquest of the presence of the arm, Holmes was found dead at Dawes Point, near the Bridge, murdered by shooting, 3 times under the heart with a .32" calibre firearm. Holmes widow told the inquest that her husband told her that Brady killed Smith, no specifics known. The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is. Further, an arm did not constitute a body, and Smith may well be alive, without his arm. Although not habeas corpus, it kind of is. Brady was acquitted after inquest evidence was allowed and admitted. Smith was a SP in a South Coast town, the other SP was the Undertaker. Apart from his perceived dislike by Holmes, Smith appears harmless. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Thu Mar 21 23:56:21 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 20:56:21 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] The SP, a shark, and the long arm of the Law In-Reply-To: References: <000b01d4dfad$2ae4a1f0$80ade5d0$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <003501d4dfe5$7c19afb0$744d0f10$@bigpond.com> What I hoped for was a guffaw at the description of Smith being (h)armless. It did happen, these incidents, the defense QC was Clive Evatt. Corrections: One hand was fingerprinted, not the hands I included. They found Holmes with a bullet wound. Cheers Trying again: Signing off to the sound of one hand clapping From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 2:43 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] The SP, a shark, and the long arm of the Law "The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is." Which places the conviction of George Pell in its proper context. On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 17:13, Tony Moffat > wrote: When fishing off a small boat just outside the breakers at Coogee a 14 foot tiger shark was snared. That is big, and on braid, it being pre-nylon in 1935 when this happened. The shark was trailed ashore and taken over by the aquarium nearby. The shark disgorged a complete human arm and had not eaten anything while being observed. The arm had tattoos of two boxers, the hands were fingerprinted and these matched SP Jimmy Smith. There was a summation that Smith had cheated on other crime figures, not SP related though, and that Reginald Holmes was involved, and further, Smith had been lured to a seaside house to meet Patrick Brady and Brady had been recruited by Holmes to murder Smith. The arm was severed from the body, and shown as proof of the deed most foul having been completed, and the arm was thrown in the sea to dispose of it, and this allows the entry of the shark to this story. Later, on the harbour now, the Police were called to the matter of an out of control launch and on this launch the found Holmes with a bullet wound, to the head. Holmes maintained he had been shot by an unknown man, and again there was a summation that Holmes had meant to suicide but this failed, it has to be said, and Holmes was treated by a nurse and allowed to go home. Brady gave series of statements and records or interview to Police, and Detectives charged Brady with murder, of Smith. Later, before the inquest of the presence of the arm, Holmes was found dead at Dawes Point, near the Bridge, murdered by shooting, 3 times under the heart with a .32" calibre firearm. Holmes widow told the inquest that her husband told her that Brady killed Smith, no specifics known. The defence argued that this information was hearsay, (it needs corroboration to be admitted), and so it's inadmissible as it is. Further, an arm did not constitute a body, and Smith may well be alive, without his arm. Although not habeas corpus, it kind of is. Brady was acquitted after inquest evidence was allowed and admitted. Smith was a SP in a South Coast town, the other SP was the Undertaker. Apart from his perceived dislike by Holmes, Smith appears harmless. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Mar 24 10:13:56 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 10:13:56 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service Message-ID: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> Gave myself a gold watch today. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seanmac4321 at gmail.com Sun Mar 24 10:48:35 2019 From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 09:48:35 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Lol.... How many years? On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 09:15 L.B.Loveday, wrote: > Gave myself a gold watch today. > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Mar 24 11:20:54 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:20:54 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: References: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <001101d4e1d7$73379df0$59a6d9d0$@ozemail.com.au> Sean, I live in the past in some respects and I suppose it's changed, but I remember father getting a gold watch from GMH after 25 years, and that's how long I've had no boss, no subordinates, no customers and no collaborators. "Just a man and his will to?". If you've not worked for the government, you'd not imagine what it can be like - here's the conditions I gave up, and I doubt it's less cushy today: Tenure with Superannuation. Salary adequate, now $109k Hours per week, 35, BUT, night work counted at time and a half, so I did 3 x 7-10pm stints, down to 30.5 hours per week, spread out over 4 days, Wed off for mid-week races. 49 weekdays annual leave; YES, 10 weeks PA 15 days long-service accumulating leave PA 10 sick days PA. The CEO spent 18 months trying to sack a bludging incompetent, but the union beat him and he vowed never to waste the time again. LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of sean mclaren Sent: Sunday, 24 March 2019 10:49 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Long Service Lol.... How many years? On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 09:15 L.B.Loveday, > wrote: Gave myself a gold watch today. _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemcbain at tpg.com.au Sun Mar 24 11:44:30 2019 From: mikemcbain at tpg.com.au (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:44:30 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <001d01d4e1da$be171190$3a4534b0$@tpg.com.au> Len Congratulations on your professionalism and persistence! I hope that gold watch was "metaphorically" only and definitely not one purchased from those Bali beach boys, are they still negotiating them down to $4.00? Cheers Mike. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Mar 24 11:56:20 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 11:56:20 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: <001d01d4e1da$be171190$3a4534b0$@tpg.com.au> References: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> <001d01d4e1da$be171190$3a4534b0$@tpg.com.au> Message-ID: <002001d4e1dc$666a8a60$333f9f20$@ozemail.com.au> Yes, Mike, metaphorically - I've not worn a watch for so long that the Casio's band is encrusted with mildew and it's gained 13 minutes. Battery has lasted an incredibly long time. I hear the touts spruiking watches, but don't bite - bar girls are more my style; the missus has banned me from several bars, but there are plenty of others. From: Racing On Behalf Of mikemcbain at tpg.com.au Sent: Sunday, 24 March 2019 11:45 AM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] Long Service Len Congratulations on your professionalism and persistence! I hope that gold watch was "metaphorically" only and definitely not one purchased from those Bali beach boys, are they still negotiating them down to $4.00? Cheers Mike. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sun Mar 24 13:12:17 2019 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 13:12:17 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: <001d01d4e1da$be171190$3a4534b0$@tpg.com.au> References: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> <001d01d4e1da$be171190$3a4534b0$@tpg.com.au> Message-ID: "getting a gold watch from GMH after 25 years..." Which is the way with private enterprise. In the law, when they've done their stint and are starting to get doddery and senile, they make them judges instead. On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 at 11:44, wrote: > Len > > > > Congratulations on your professionalism and persistence! > > > > I hope that gold watch was ?metaphorically? only and definitely not one > purchased from those Bali beach boys, are they still negotiating them down > to $4.00? > > > > Cheers > > > > Mike. > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Mar 24 14:40:56 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 14:40:56 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: References: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> <001d01d4e1da$be171190$3a4534b0$@tpg.com.au> Message-ID: <002f01d4e1f3$650891f0$2f19b5d0$@ozemail.com.au> Nick! As the result of a 1977 referendum, Australian Federal judges must retire at 70. Mike, you weren't doddery and senile long ago when you used to be 70 were you? From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 24 March 2019 13:12 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Long Service "getting a gold watch from GMH after 25 years..." Which is the way with private enterprise. In the law, when they've done their stint and are starting to get doddery and senile, they make them judges instead. On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 at 11:44, > wrote: Len Congratulations on your professionalism and persistence! I hope that gold watch was ?metaphorically? only and definitely not one purchased from those Bali beach boys, are they still negotiating them down to $4.00? Cheers Mike. _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Mar 24 15:15:06 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 15:15:06 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service Message-ID: <003401d4e1f8$2b4b2130$81e16390$@ozemail.com.au> Nick! As the result of a 1977 referendum, Australian Federal judges must retire at 70. Mike, you weren't doddery and senile long ago when you used to be 70 were you? From: Racing > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 24 March 2019 13:12 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Long Service "getting a gold watch from GMH after 25 years..." Which is the way with private enterprise. In the law, when they've done their stint and are starting to get doddery and senile, they make them judges instead. On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 at 11:44, > wrote: Len Congratulations on your professionalism and persistence! I hope that gold watch was ?metaphorically? only and definitely not one purchased from those Bali beach boys, are they still negotiating them down to $4.00? Cheers Mike. _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sun Mar 24 15:19:17 2019 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2019 15:19:17 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: <002f01d4e1f3$650891f0$2f19b5d0$@ozemail.com.au> References: <000001d4e1ce$25675ab0$70361010$@ozemail.com.au> <001d01d4e1da$be171190$3a4534b0$@tpg.com.au> <002f01d4e1f3$650891f0$2f19b5d0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: It was an old Peter Cook joke, Len. Most of these impostors get appointed long before the age of 70 but they're no less stupid for all that. On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 at 14:41, L.B.Loveday wrote: > Nick! As the result of a 1977 referendum, Australian Federal judges must > retire at 70. > > > > Mike, you weren't doddery and senile long ago when you used to be 70 were > you? > > > > > > > > *From:* Racing *On Behalf Of * > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > *Sent:* Sunday, 24 March 2019 13:12 PM > *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Long Service > > > > "getting a gold watch from GMH after 25 years..." > > Which is the way with private enterprise. > > In the law, when they've done their stint and are starting to get doddery > and senile, they make them judges instead. > > > > On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 at 11:44, wrote: > > Len > > > > Congratulations on your professionalism and persistence! > > > > I hope that gold watch was ?metaphorically? only and definitely not one > purchased from those Bali beach boys, are they still negotiating them down > to $4.00? > > > > Cheers > > > > Mike. > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Mon Mar 25 16:55:13 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 16:55:13 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service Message-ID: <009001d4e2cf$52686cf0$f73946d0$@ozemail.com.au> Nick! As the result of a 1977 referendum, Australian Federal judges must retire at 70. Mike, you weren't doddery and senile long ago when you used to be 70 were you? From: Racing > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 24 March 2019 13:12 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Long Service "getting a gold watch from GMH after 25 years..." Which is the way with private enterprise. In the law, when they've done their stint and are starting to get doddery and senile, they make them judges instead. On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 at 11:44, > wrote: Len Congratulations on your professionalism and persistence! I hope that gold watch was ?metaphorically? only and definitely not one purchased from those Bali beach boys, are they still negotiating them down to $4.00? Cheers Mike. _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemcbain at tpg.com.au Mon Mar 25 17:52:41 2019 From: mikemcbain at tpg.com.au (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:52:41 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: <009001d4e2cf$52686cf0$f73946d0$@ozemail.com.au> References: <009001d4e2cf$52686cf0$f73946d0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <000901d4e2d7$58176040$084620c0$@tpg.com.au> Len Certainly not! In fact some of my best work was done in the five years following my 70th. Still don?t feel senile or doddery but at 82 I can?t run and jump like a 70yo me. Mike. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seanmac4321 at gmail.com Tue Mar 26 00:44:25 2019 From: seanmac4321 at gmail.com (sean mclaren) Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 23:44:25 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Long Service In-Reply-To: <000901d4e2d7$58176040$084620c0$@tpg.com.au> References: <009001d4e2cf$52686cf0$f73946d0$@ozemail.com.au> <000901d4e2d7$58176040$084620c0$@tpg.com.au> Message-ID: hey mike good to see you up and running. cheers sean On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 4:52 PM wrote: > Len > > > > Certainly not! In fact some of my best work was done in the five years > following my 70th. > > Still don?t feel senile or doddery but at 82 I can?t run and jump like a > 70yo me. > > > > Mike. > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Thu Mar 28 11:24:47 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 11:24:47 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Launceston 2 SP Message-ID: <005901d4e4fc$a80c31d0$f8249570$@ozemail.com.au> This is Launceston R2 yesterday. 1,3,10 & 11 were scratched the previous day, and #9 was a late scratching at 18:08, 52 minutes before scheduled start time, and in any case was 50/1 to 70/1 all day. How does that market result in an official SP/SOP book of 129%? How does #5 get an SP of 6.50? #6 31.0? #2 3.20? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 223118 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Fri Mar 29 01:29:08 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2019 22:29:08 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system Message-ID: <000a01d4e572$9b8d2ce0$d2a786a0$@bigpond.com> This one went by several names,(deleted), but the two shown here pre-dated that by 25 years or so. The author was ? Molloy who advertised in the Sportsman, and for several months, The Sporting Globe. Results in the booklet are selective, back fitted, cherry picked, chosen to show how the thing worked S/he wrote. It is meant to be used on Metro racing, back in the day that was probably all you got fields for anyway. I'll expand some of the rules further down but The original version : Selection A : Comes from the runner in the first three weight bands in the race, it might be top weight, or second or third top weight. The other rule is your selection must be 14/1 or more. One selection to fit the rules only, otherwise no bet and move on to the next eligible race. Primary wager is 4 pounds to win, with a saver on the place. This version has a racegoers hat, a fascinator?, printed on the cover. The second, expanded version, has a drawing of Sandown racetrack, and is the obverse of the first cover, that has been turned inside and the new cover printed on its reverse. The second version has a supplementary rule. A second runner, included because of weight and selected because of price, is for place only. This second, supplementary runner is also priced at 14/1, or more. A problem arises because (a) the author specifies two (2) runners can be bet/backed, then (b) discusses a third runner and gives a result for a third runner also. Number 3 is not mentioned in the rules. I have used the third runner in my results. Presumably the extra (third) runner is selected at 15/1 or better. Runners for inclusion can number up to 5, your betting choices are from these 5, more than that then move onto the next race. There is no betting suggestion for the second version - it has been removed it seems. The author is adamant that this is not a race to race, or day to day plan, it is meant to be a plan for betting for the occasional racegoer with the real likelihood of making some good money as well. The author writes that he does not consider there is a system, plan, method or scheme which allows the casual racegoer to make regular profits. There are several pages of interesting maths surrounding the betting market, how this and the next doubles are great ( all-up) and how to calculate a place dividend ((SP-1)/4))+1 and a sheet showing place dividends calculated for you, with a line to rip along included. The spelling misteaks are corrected in the second issue, Mooneey Valley is spelt as it should be, and so is Caulfield, it was Cualfeild (which is neigh on impossible to type, try it) SUMMARY: A handicap race only, no wfa, sw, quality, special weights, just handicaps, jump races allowed, hcp maidens allowed. (1) Consider the first three runners listed in the weights - the top weight, 2nd top weight, third top weight. The selection comes from these runners PROVIDED it is priced at 14/1 pre race - thinking morning line, or at any time in the betting. (2) see (1) but now include runner numbers out to 5, and any of those priced at 14/1 pre race. Selection (A) is backed for a win, with a saver for a place Other selections arising are backed for a place. It seems, from working the plan over a few days, that a lot of races are skipped, passed over, because of the steadfast rule(s). The first 3, or first 5, runners are always present but the price excludes them just as often. Using place dividends for a result might mean you need a div greater than the selections used + 1, minimum $4. The author doesn't discuss this in the booklet- only win dividend greater than 14/1 - $15 now a days. Some results: (L,W20,P12?,L,)-(W20LL,LL,W20)-(LLL,LL)-(P25L,LL,P14)-(P25)- These are dated from the time of publication - late 60's. Each bracket represents a days selections - P25 means Placed at 25/1, W20 means - I'm sure you can work it on from here. There are several pages of results Today 28032019 - Rockhampton R3 GidUp Strop 28/7.50 L Narromine R5 Good Host 95/16.90 P Rockhampton R4 Dawlish 23/7.10 P Donald R7 Keyser Soze 17/4.10 L Narromine R6 Barricade 17/3.80 L Hawkesbury R7 Eugenio 30/5.4 P Included but a new rule definition needed Rockhampton R5 Fastnet Flyer 37/6.8 P Narromine R7 Thee Jenner 38/3.9 L Hawkesbury R8 Legistation L Rockhampton R6 Cheeky Red 32/6.9 L Rockhampton R7 Helluva Hoff 48/9.8 P Pakenham R6 Rewarding Effort 23/5 L Pakenham R8 Game Up Hardy 35/4.90 L Pakenham R8 Alsvin 17/2.80 P too short? Some healthy dividens in that lot. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Fri Mar 29 22:21:28 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 19:21:28 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system In-Reply-To: <000a01d4e572$9b8d2ce0$d2a786a0$@bigpond.com> References: <000a01d4e572$9b8d2ce0$d2a786a0$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <000201d4e621$8e17a310$aa46e930$@bigpond.com> Results from 29032019 Sapphire Coast R6 Highgate Hill 33/7 L MuswellBrook R5 Mighty Like 20/5.5 L MuswellBrook R5 Petrossian 26/6.3 P Warrnambool R6 Manhattan Gangster 15/3.9 L MuswellBrook R6 Akasaki 22/3.7 L MuswellBrook R6 Latin Boy 40.2/5.8 W MuswellBrook R6 Don't Tease Me 36/6.6 L Warrnambool R6 Timor Gold 21/6.10 P Sapphire Coast R8 Mr Tindall 16/4.5 L Sapphire Coast R8 Pinch Mountain 21/5.1 L MuswellBrook R7 Goldstream 58/13.8 L MuswellBrook R7 Got Unders 17/3.9 P Warrnambool R7 Harvard 33/7 P MuswellBrook R8 Delechuzy 21/6 L MuswellBrook R8 Humboldt 30/7.5 L Warrnambool R8 Multitude 35/6.5 L Warrnambool R8 Finn McCool 18/4.3 L Cranbourne R5 Zedstar 45/5.30 L Cranbourne R6 Momentary 23/4.4 W Cranbourne R7 Darabad 36/9 P Cranbourne R7 Murphys Delight 37/8.7 L Cheers Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:29 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system This one went by several names,(deleted), but the two shown here pre-dated that by 25 years or so. The author was ? Molloy who advertised in the Sportsman, and for several months, The Sporting Globe. Results in the booklet are selective, back fitted, cherry picked, chosen to show how the thing worked S/he wrote. It is meant to be used on Metro racing, back in the day that was probably all you got fields for anyway. I'll expand some of the rules further down but The original version : Selection A : Comes from the runner in the first three weight bands in the race, it might be top weight, or second or third top weight. The other rule is your selection must be 14/1 or more. One selection to fit the rules only, otherwise no bet and move on to the next eligible race. Primary wager is 4 pounds to win, with a saver on the place. This version has a racegoers hat, a fascinator?, printed on the cover. The second, expanded version, has a drawing of Sandown racetrack, and is the obverse of the first cover, that has been turned inside and the new cover printed on its reverse. The second version has a supplementary rule. A second runner, included because of weight and selected because of price, is for place only. This second, supplementary runner is also priced at 14/1, or more. A problem arises because (a) the author specifies two (2) runners can be bet/backed, then (b) discusses a third runner and gives a result for a third runner also. Number 3 is not mentioned in the rules. I have used the third runner in my results. Presumably the extra (third) runner is selected at 15/1 or better. Runners for inclusion can number up to 5, your betting choices are from these 5, more than that then move onto the next race. There is no betting suggestion for the second version - it has been removed it seems. The author is adamant that this is not a race to race, or day to day plan, it is meant to be a plan for betting for the occasional racegoer with the real likelihood of making some good money as well. The author writes that he does not consider there is a system, plan, method or scheme which allows the casual racegoer to make regular profits. There are several pages of interesting maths surrounding the betting market, how this and the next doubles are great ( all-up) and how to calculate a place dividend ((SP-1)/4))+1 and a sheet showing place dividends calculated for you, with a line to rip along included. The spelling misteaks are corrected in the second issue, Mooneey Valley is spelt as it should be, and so is Caulfield, it was Cualfeild (which is neigh on impossible to type, try it) SUMMARY: A handicap race only, no wfa, sw, quality, special weights, just handicaps, jump races allowed, hcp maidens allowed. (1) Consider the first three runners listed in the weights - the top weight, 2nd top weight, third top weight. The selection comes from these runners PROVIDED it is priced at 14/1 pre race - thinking morning line, or at any time in the betting. (2) see (1) but now include runner numbers out to 5, and any of those priced at 14/1 pre race. Selection (A) is backed for a win, with a saver for a place Other selections arising are backed for a place. It seems, from working the plan over a few days, that a lot of races are skipped, passed over, because of the steadfast rule(s). The first 3, or first 5, runners are always present but the price excludes them just as often. Using place dividends for a result might mean you need a div greater than the selections used + 1, minimum $4. The author doesn't discuss this in the booklet- only win dividend greater than 14/1 - $15 now a days. Some results: (L,W20,P12?,L,)-(W20LL,LL,W20)-(LLL,LL)-(P25L,LL,P14)-(P25)- These are dated from the time of publication - late 60's. Each bracket represents a days selections - P25 means Placed at 25/1, W20 means - I'm sure you can work it on from here. There are several pages of results Today 28032019 - Rockhampton R3 GidUp Strop 28/7.50 L Narromine R5 Good Host 95/16.90 P Rockhampton R4 Dawlish 23/7.10 P Donald R7 Keyser Soze 17/4.10 L Narromine R6 Barricade 17/3.80 L Hawkesbury R7 Eugenio 30/5.4 P Included but a new rule definition needed Rockhampton R5 Fastnet Flyer 37/6.8 P Narromine R7 Thee Jenner 38/3.9 L Hawkesbury R8 Legistation L Rockhampton R6 Cheeky Red 32/6.9 L Rockhampton R7 Helluva Hoff 48/9.8 P Pakenham R6 Rewarding Effort 23/5 L Pakenham R8 Game Up Hardy 35/4.90 L Pakenham R8 Alsvin 17/2.80 P too short? Some healthy dividens in that lot. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sat Mar 30 19:21:56 2019 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 19:21:56 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Horse runs in wrong race at Rockhampton In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002b01d4e6d1$a4dae7f0$ee90b7d0$@ozemail.com.au> https://www.punters.com.au/news/horse-runs-in-wrong-race_178717/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From creel1958 at gmail.com Sat Mar 30 19:31:48 2019 From: creel1958 at gmail.com (Ashley Latham) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 19:31:48 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Horse runs in wrong race at Rockhampton In-Reply-To: <002b01d4e6d1$a4dae7f0$ee90b7d0$@ozemail.com.au> References: <002b01d4e6d1$a4dae7f0$ee90b7d0$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: <5c9f2976.1c69fb81.ce141.f50f@mx.google.com> Hi Len, Amazing, and to compound the error Racing Australia has Authadane listed as DQ in results. It didn?t run as we know. Plain ?n? Simple all right. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: L.B.Loveday Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2019 7:22 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] Horse runs in wrong race at Rockhampton https://www.punters.com.au/news/horse-runs-in-wrong-race_178717/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sun Mar 31 00:29:56 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:29:56 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system In-Reply-To: <000201d4e621$8e17a310$aa46e930$@bigpond.com> References: <000a01d4e572$9b8d2ce0$d2a786a0$@bigpond.com> <000201d4e621$8e17a310$aa46e930$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <000101d4e6fc$aaf1fe00$00d5fa00$@bigpond.com> Resultsfrom 30032019 L,LP4,LP6.8,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,W46.5/12LL,LLP17.7,L,L,LL,L,LL,L,L,L LP5.8L,L,LLL,P8L,LW20/5.5L,L,LP5.6,LLL,L,LL,L 56 BETS, OUTLAY $112 return 4+6.8+46.5+12+17.7+5.8+8+20+5.5+5.6=$131.9 131.9-112=19.9/112*100 = 17.7% POI 1ST win PtMcq R4 2ND win Doomben R10 Cheers Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 7:21 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system Results from 29032019 Sapphire Coast R6 Highgate Hill 33/7 L MuswellBrook R5 Mighty Like 20/5.5 L MuswellBrook R5 Petrossian 26/6.3 P Warrnambool R6 Manhattan Gangster 15/3.9 L MuswellBrook R6 Akasaki 22/3.7 L MuswellBrook R6 Latin Boy 40.2/5.8 W MuswellBrook R6 Don't Tease Me 36/6.6 L Warrnambool R6 Timor Gold 21/6.10 P Sapphire Coast R8 Mr Tindall 16/4.5 L Sapphire Coast R8 Pinch Mountain 21/5.1 L MuswellBrook R7 Goldstream 58/13.8 L MuswellBrook R7 Got Unders 17/3.9 P Warrnambool R7 Harvard 33/7 P MuswellBrook R8 Delechuzy 21/6 L MuswellBrook R8 Humboldt 30/7.5 L Warrnambool R8 Multitude 35/6.5 L Warrnambool R8 Finn McCool 18/4.3 L Cranbourne R5 Zedstar 45/5.30 L Cranbourne R6 Momentary 23/4.4 W Cranbourne R7 Darabad 36/9 P Cranbourne R7 Murphys Delight 37/8.7 L Cheers Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:29 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system This one went by several names,(deleted), but the two shown here pre-dated that by 25 years or so. The author was ? Molloy who advertised in the Sportsman, and for several months, The Sporting Globe. Results in the booklet are selective, back fitted, cherry picked, chosen to show how the thing worked S/he wrote. It is meant to be used on Metro racing, back in the day that was probably all you got fields for anyway. I'll expand some of the rules further down but The original version : Selection A : Comes from the runner in the first three weight bands in the race, it might be top weight, or second or third top weight. The other rule is your selection must be 14/1 or more. One selection to fit the rules only, otherwise no bet and move on to the next eligible race. Primary wager is 4 pounds to win, with a saver on the place. This version has a racegoers hat, a fascinator?, printed on the cover. The second, expanded version, has a drawing of Sandown racetrack, and is the obverse of the first cover, that has been turned inside and the new cover printed on its reverse. The second version has a supplementary rule. A second runner, included because of weight and selected because of price, is for place only. This second, supplementary runner is also priced at 14/1, or more. A problem arises because (a) the author specifies two (2) runners can be bet/backed, then (b) discusses a third runner and gives a result for a third runner also. Number 3 is not mentioned in the rules. I have used the third runner in my results. Presumably the extra (third) runner is selected at 15/1 or better. Runners for inclusion can number up to 5, your betting choices are from these 5, more than that then move onto the next race. There is no betting suggestion for the second version - it has been removed it seems. The author is adamant that this is not a race to race, or day to day plan, it is meant to be a plan for betting for the occasional racegoer with the real likelihood of making some good money as well. The author writes that he does not consider there is a system, plan, method or scheme which allows the casual racegoer to make regular profits. There are several pages of interesting maths surrounding the betting market, how this and the next doubles are great ( all-up) and how to calculate a place dividend ((SP-1)/4))+1 and a sheet showing place dividends calculated for you, with a line to rip along included. The spelling misteaks are corrected in the second issue, Mooneey Valley is spelt as it should be, and so is Caulfield, it was Cualfeild (which is neigh on impossible to type, try it) SUMMARY: A handicap race only, no wfa, sw, quality, special weights, just handicaps, jump races allowed, hcp maidens allowed. (1) Consider the first three runners listed in the weights - the top weight, 2nd top weight, third top weight. The selection comes from these runners PROVIDED it is priced at 14/1 pre race - thinking morning line, or at any time in the betting. (2) see (1) but now include runner numbers out to 5, and any of those priced at 14/1 pre race. Selection (A) is backed for a win, with a saver for a place Other selections arising are backed for a place. It seems, from working the plan over a few days, that a lot of races are skipped, passed over, because of the steadfast rule(s). The first 3, or first 5, runners are always present but the price excludes them just as often. Using place dividends for a result might mean you need a div greater than the selections used + 1, minimum $4. The author doesn't discuss this in the booklet- only win dividend greater than 14/1 - $15 now a days. Some results: (L,W20,P12?,L,)-(W20LL,LL,W20)-(LLL,LL)-(P25L,LL,P14)-(P25)- These are dated from the time of publication - late 60's. Each bracket represents a days selections - P25 means Placed at 25/1, W20 means - I'm sure you can work it on from here. There are several pages of results Today 28032019 - Rockhampton R3 GidUp Strop 28/7.50 L Narromine R5 Good Host 95/16.90 P Rockhampton R4 Dawlish 23/7.10 P Donald R7 Keyser Soze 17/4.10 L Narromine R6 Barricade 17/3.80 L Hawkesbury R7 Eugenio 30/5.4 P Included but a new rule definition needed Rockhampton R5 Fastnet Flyer 37/6.8 P Narromine R7 Thee Jenner 38/3.9 L Hawkesbury R8 Legistation L Rockhampton R6 Cheeky Red 32/6.9 L Rockhampton R7 Helluva Hoff 48/9.8 P Pakenham R6 Rewarding Effort 23/5 L Pakenham R8 Game Up Hardy 35/4.90 L Pakenham R8 Alsvin 17/2.80 P too short? Some healthy dividens in that lot. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sun Mar 31 20:33:23 2019 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2019 17:33:23 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system In-Reply-To: <000101d4e6fc$aaf1fe00$00d5fa00$@bigpond.com> References: <000a01d4e572$9b8d2ce0$d2a786a0$@bigpond.com> <000201d4e621$8e17a310$aa46e930$@bigpond.com> <000101d4e6fc$aaf1fe00$00d5fa00$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <000001d4e7a4$c9f7cca0$5de765e0$@bigpond.com> Results from 31032019 6.3PL,L4.3P,6.1P,LL,L,16.2/4.1,8.70P,L,L,LL,4.0P,L4.20P,L,LL,L,L 23 BETS OUTLAY $46 6.3+4.3+6.1+16.2+4.1+8.7+4.0+4.20 = 53.9 53.9-46 = 7.9/46*100 = 17.17 16.20 is a win Sale R8 This the last of them - cheers Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2019 9:30 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system Resultsfrom 30032019 L,LP4,LP6.8,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,L,W46.5/12LL,LLP17.7,L,L,LL,L,LL,L,L,L LP5.8L,L,LLL,P8L,LW20/5.5L,L,LP5.6,LLL,L,LL,L 56 BETS, OUTLAY $112 return 4+6.8+46.5+12+17.7+5.8+8+20+5.5+5.6=$131.9 131.9-112=19.9/112*100 = 17.7% POI 1ST win PtMcq R4 2ND win Doomben R10 Cheers Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 7:21 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system Results from 29032019 Sapphire Coast R6 Highgate Hill 33/7 L MuswellBrook R5 Mighty Like 20/5.5 L MuswellBrook R5 Petrossian 26/6.3 P Warrnambool R6 Manhattan Gangster 15/3.9 L MuswellBrook R6 Akasaki 22/3.7 L MuswellBrook R6 Latin Boy 40.2/5.8 W MuswellBrook R6 Don't Tease Me 36/6.6 L Warrnambool R6 Timor Gold 21/6.10 P Sapphire Coast R8 Mr Tindall 16/4.5 L Sapphire Coast R8 Pinch Mountain 21/5.1 L MuswellBrook R7 Goldstream 58/13.8 L MuswellBrook R7 Got Unders 17/3.9 P Warrnambool R7 Harvard 33/7 P MuswellBrook R8 Delechuzy 21/6 L MuswellBrook R8 Humboldt 30/7.5 L Warrnambool R8 Multitude 35/6.5 L Warrnambool R8 Finn McCool 18/4.3 L Cranbourne R5 Zedstar 45/5.30 L Cranbourne R6 Momentary 23/4.4 W Cranbourne R7 Darabad 36/9 P Cranbourne R7 Murphys Delight 37/8.7 L Cheers Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:29 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] Racing Days - a system This one went by several names,(deleted), but the two shown here pre-dated that by 25 years or so. The author was ? Molloy who advertised in the Sportsman, and for several months, The Sporting Globe. Results in the booklet are selective, back fitted, cherry picked, chosen to show how the thing worked S/he wrote. It is meant to be used on Metro racing, back in the day that was probably all you got fields for anyway. I'll expand some of the rules further down but The original version : Selection A : Comes from the runner in the first three weight bands in the race, it might be top weight, or second or third top weight. The other rule is your selection must be 14/1 or more. One selection to fit the rules only, otherwise no bet and move on to the next eligible race. Primary wager is 4 pounds to win, with a saver on the place. This version has a racegoers hat, a fascinator?, printed on the cover. The second, expanded version, has a drawing of Sandown racetrack, and is the obverse of the first cover, that has been turned inside and the new cover printed on its reverse. The second version has a supplementary rule. A second runner, included because of weight and selected because of price, is for place only. This second, supplementary runner is also priced at 14/1, or more. A problem arises because (a) the author specifies two (2) runners can be bet/backed, then (b) discusses a third runner and gives a result for a third runner also. Number 3 is not mentioned in the rules. I have used the third runner in my results. Presumably the extra (third) runner is selected at 15/1 or better. Runners for inclusion can number up to 5, your betting choices are from these 5, more than that then move onto the next race. There is no betting suggestion for the second version - it has been removed it seems. The author is adamant that this is not a race to race, or day to day plan, it is meant to be a plan for betting for the occasional racegoer with the real likelihood of making some good money as well. The author writes that he does not consider there is a system, plan, method or scheme which allows the casual racegoer to make regular profits. There are several pages of interesting maths surrounding the betting market, how this and the next doubles are great ( all-up) and how to calculate a place dividend ((SP-1)/4))+1 and a sheet showing place dividends calculated for you, with a line to rip along included. The spelling misteaks are corrected in the second issue, Mooneey Valley is spelt as it should be, and so is Caulfield, it was Cualfeild (which is neigh on impossible to type, try it) SUMMARY: A handicap race only, no wfa, sw, quality, special weights, just handicaps, jump races allowed, hcp maidens allowed. (1) Consider the first three runners listed in the weights - the top weight, 2nd top weight, third top weight. The selection comes from these runners PROVIDED it is priced at 14/1 pre race - thinking morning line, or at any time in the betting. (2) see (1) but now include runner numbers out to 5, and any of those priced at 14/1 pre race. Selection (A) is backed for a win, with a saver for a place Other selections arising are backed for a place. It seems, from working the plan over a few days, that a lot of races are skipped, passed over, because of the steadfast rule(s). The first 3, or first 5, runners are always present but the price excludes them just as often. Using place dividends for a result might mean you need a div greater than the selections used + 1, minimum $4. The author doesn't discuss this in the booklet- only win dividend greater than 14/1 - $15 now a days. Some results: (L,W20,P12?,L,)-(W20LL,LL,W20)-(LLL,LL)-(P25L,LL,P14)-(P25)- These are dated from the time of publication - late 60's. Each bracket represents a days selections - P25 means Placed at 25/1, W20 means - I'm sure you can work it on from here. There are several pages of results Today 28032019 - Rockhampton R3 GidUp Strop 28/7.50 L Narromine R5 Good Host 95/16.90 P Rockhampton R4 Dawlish 23/7.10 P Donald R7 Keyser Soze 17/4.10 L Narromine R6 Barricade 17/3.80 L Hawkesbury R7 Eugenio 30/5.4 P Included but a new rule definition needed Rockhampton R5 Fastnet Flyer 37/6.8 P Narromine R7 Thee Jenner 38/3.9 L Hawkesbury R8 Legistation L Rockhampton R6 Cheeky Red 32/6.9 L Rockhampton R7 Helluva Hoff 48/9.8 P Pakenham R6 Rewarding Effort 23/5 L Pakenham R8 Game Up Hardy 35/4.90 L Pakenham R8 Alsvin 17/2.80 P too short? Some healthy dividens in that lot. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com