[AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?

Fri Nov 30 11:20:08 AEDT 2018

Roger can you enlighten me why the self indulgent intrusion?.

My emotional intelligence escapes me from time to time, too. Getting old
ain't no excuse.

And should I say,  I do recall your curried porridge references, back in
your speed ratings days.

 Oops only Mike McBain or perhaps Roman would remember those heady days.

My ol man had a saying " old dogs for a rough road, puppy dogs walk on the
footpath".

In closing Roger,  this is familiar territory for you, loosen up.

Len asked you to talk horse racing. Here,  on this forum.

I read most of your books. You have plenty of material.

I recall the late E J Minnis saying your published speed ratings were very
good.

Why not explain why you went away from speed?

Keep smiling everyone.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 11:15 Roger Biggs, <biggsroger83 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Mr Loveday,
>
> Thank you for your wonderfully intellectual response.
> As you say ... I really should write about horseracing.
>
> Actually I have. All 14 of my books are devoted to the
> statistics of 15 years of Australian racing. I have yet to see any
> product from you, but there again ... you do live in SA ... the
> home of Australia's largest above-ground cemetery.
> (AKA Adelaide).
>
> Mr Loveday .... your views and contributions are well
> known on a number of websites.I will not respond further.
>
> Kind regards.
>
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 at 11:52, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "women would prefer the crop to being raped" Utter, entire, total garbage.
>>
>>
>>
>> I asked several women, who would know the likely choice of other women,
>> and they  were appalled that a man (viz you, but without attribution) would
>> think rape so insignificant that they would prefer being raped to getting a
>> few whacks with a crop. One thought that appalling mindset went out with
>> slavery and all were 100% sure that everyone they knew would choose the
>> crop, and much worse, rather than being raped.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> *On Behalf Of *Roger Biggs
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 29 November 2018 11:05 AM
>> *To:* racing at ausrace.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?
>>
>>
>>
>> Where is this rather strange thread going???
>>
>>
>>
>> I read "every man I know would prefer the crop to being gelded." ...... I
>> wish my Father had gelded me at 14 .... it would have saved me an absolute
>> fortune.
>>
>>
>>
>> but then the thread moves into a VERY uncomfortable area. "women would
>> prefer the crop to being raped" Utter, entire, total garbage. You need to
>> spend some time with females who've been down this road.
>>
>>
>>
>> Use of the whip. Some say yes, some say no. If the whip is of limited
>> effect on the horse then why keep it? If the use of the whip is for the
>> production of endorphins in the rider's brain to make him think he's urging
>> the horse to do it's very best .... then give him a 'phantom' whip that
>> he/she/it (or any of the other Alphabet People) can use without disturbing
>> the horse (or The Greens or PETA etc.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Can we please go back to "Horse Racing".
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 at 10:38, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> General comments on treatment of racehorses (and racing dogs).
>>
>>
>>
>> I know horses are not humans, I know what anthropomorphism is, but
>> nonetheless there are traits that seem common to humans and many animals,
>> including horses.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't need to ask to know that every man I know would prefer the crop
>> to being gelded, yet gelding horses is almost never questioned whereas a
>> few whacks with a crop brings hysteria. Gelding causes much physical pain,
>> especially in the 20% of cases that have after-op complications, and a
>> number die. As to psychological pain, who can tell? Not this mere punter,
>> nor I believe, any person with certainty.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not so sure about women, but my guess is a very large majority would
>> prefer the crop to being raped, but that is what humans subject mares to -
>> "hold them down" and have a male rape them, no choice, no foreplay for the
>> mare. The great mare Light Fingers was "racist" - she hated Greys and would
>> try to bite them on the track. So how would she have liked being held down
>> and raped by a grey stallion? She hated it so much that she failed to
>> conceive in her first two seasons. No protests about that, but hysteria if
>> horses are given a couple of whacks with a crop.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pigs are generally acknowledged as much more intelligent animals than
>> horses, yet they are subjected to terrible conditions so humans can have
>> their Christmas ham, and the legislated minimum conditions are
>> insignificant compared to the hysteria that caused legislation to ban dog
>> racing, albeit withdrawn, and the calls to ban the crop, and indeed horse
>> racing. I've seen pigs slaughtered, and they are far, far from "lambs to
>> the slaughter", they are terrified but go down fighting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rats are generally acknowledged as more intelligent animals than horses,
>> yet they are subjected to terrible suffering before death mercifully brings
>> relief, by the use of poisons such as warfarin, sold as Ratsak in
>> Australian stores, which cause internal bleeding that can take days to kill
>> - I have seen rats jump into a fish pond attempting to mitigate the
>> suffering. Yet no outcry that I've seen, let alone the hysteria when a
>> horse gets a few whacks with a crop, or breaks a leg and is quickly killed;
>> compare that to a horse in the outback -when it breaks a leg can take a
>> week or more to die of dehydration.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've lived where when a dog was ran over, the body was quartered and the
>> parts auctioned off, where the local boys would catch cats and spit
>> barbeque them for a bit of meat, yet do that in South Australia, and jail
>> awaits - how it is a rationally a crime to eat dog  (about the first
>> legislation passed by Rann when he won government in 2002), but ok to trap
>> and eat Thumper or Bugs Bunny is beyond me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> *On Behalf Of *L.B.Loveday
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 25 November 2018 2:46 PM
>> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
>> *Subject:* [AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?
>>
>>
>>
>> Just saw this looking through the Archives.  I have no idea what Jory's
>> been diagnosed as other than I know he's undergone prostatectomy. How you
>> have formed the opinion "*Didn't think so*" is beyond my comprehension
>> maybe you know him personally.
>>
>>
>>
>> From Merriam-Webster, my on-line English reference of choice:
>>
>>
>>
>> Senile: of, relating to, exhibiting, or characteristic of old age
>>
>>
>>
>> My grandfather's death certificate (died at 94) showed "Cause of Death:
>> Senility" which upset my mother until I explained to her the sense in which
>> it was used. Everyone's mental acumen decreases along with their physical
>> ability as they age, and Jory's certainly has.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have had private communication debates with Jory, and some of what he
>> has written to me is at best rationally indisputably rubbish, and
>> demonstrated an inability to think outside what he what written. An example
>> - he screamed blue murder that a 83yo was on a waiting list for a hip
>> replacement and that he should be given priority because of his age. He
>> accepted that there was a waiting list of mostly, almost all even, younger
>> people but would in no way accept that they should not be moved back, that
>> if the oldest were operated on first, the young would have to wait for
>> years more, possibly dying before their turn came, as those older would
>> always be prioritised, that there was an economic case for the opposite -
>> repair the youngest first so they can work productively and pay taxes
>>  which help to support the elderly - or a fairness case that the old bloke
>> had had 80+ years of good life, would it not be fair to repair the young
>> first so they could hopefully have the same… I was not advocating anything
>> other than saying it was wrong for an 83yo to jump the queue simply because
>> of age, but all Jory could do was write "But he's 83"…..
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Munce donated a crop to my old football club, and the boys belted
>> each other with it; of course it stung, like a slap from a missus stings,
>> but it did not break skin or result in a bruise, and I warrant the boys
>> were stronger even than Justin Sheehan and Mick Dittman. Horses of course
>> have far thicker hides than the boys.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Len,
>>
>> Has he been medically diagnosed as senile?
>>
>> Didn't think so.
>>
>> He never stated that Gai et al are physically and psychologically cruel to their horses, he said that whipping a horse to try and improve its performance by running longer or faster has no place in racing and would be considered cruel if done outside of an actual race.
>>
>> I totally agree.
>>
>> When riding horses, I carry a whip purely for safety purposes and so should jockeys.
>>
>> A horse can feel a fly on it's rear, so to even suggest that a horse doesn't feel pain from a whip, makes no sense at all.
>>
>> Smart horses dump the jockey after the line, some not so smart, tear suspensory ligaments, have heart attacks, bleed, and quite a few die post-race.
>>
>> If it's not cruel to the horse, why do many stand flat footed at the gates (forgetting Chautauqua).
>>
>> Why have the rules been tightened on the type of whip, the number of strikes, where the horse can be struck, and harness racing considering a complete ban.
>>
>> Working with ex racehorses, I see firsthand both the physical and mental damage the use of a whip other than for jockey safety can cause.
>>
>> Mostly the damage is irreparable.
>>
>> Lindsay
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com <http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com>] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2018 5:16 PM
>>
>> To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List'
>>
>> Subject: [AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?
>>
>>
>>
>> Rex Jory is well into his 70's and somewhat senile. Does the idiot think Gai et alia are "physically and psychologically cruel" to their horses?
>>
>>
>>
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