[AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?

Thu Nov 29 12:14:18 AEDT 2018

Dear Mr Loveday,

Thank you for your wonderfully intellectual response.
As you say ... I really should write about horseracing.

Actually I have. All 14 of my books are devoted to the
statistics of 15 years of Australian racing. I have yet to see any
product from you, but there again ... you do live in SA ... the
home of Australia's largest above-ground cemetery.
(AKA Adelaide).

Mr Loveday .... your views and contributions are well
known on a number of websites.I will not respond further.

Kind regards.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 at 11:52, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

> "women would prefer the crop to being raped" Utter, entire, total garbage.
>
>
>
> I asked several women, who would know the likely choice of other women,
> and they  were appalled that a man (viz you, but without attribution) would
> think rape so insignificant that they would prefer being raped to getting a
> few whacks with a crop. One thought that appalling mindset went out with
> slavery and all were 100% sure that everyone they knew would choose the
> crop, and much worse, rather than being raped.
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> *On Behalf Of *Roger Biggs
> *Sent:* Thursday, 29 November 2018 11:05 AM
> *To:* racing at ausrace.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?
>
>
>
> Where is this rather strange thread going???
>
>
>
> I read "every man I know would prefer the crop to being gelded." ...... I
> wish my Father had gelded me at 14 .... it would have saved me an absolute
> fortune.
>
>
>
> but then the thread moves into a VERY uncomfortable area. "women would
> prefer the crop to being raped" Utter, entire, total garbage. You need to
> spend some time with females who've been down this road.
>
>
>
> Use of the whip. Some say yes, some say no. If the whip is of limited
> effect on the horse then why keep it? If the use of the whip is for the
> production of endorphins in the rider's brain to make him think he's urging
> the horse to do it's very best .... then give him a 'phantom' whip that
> he/she/it (or any of the other Alphabet People) can use without disturbing
> the horse (or The Greens or PETA etc.)
>
>
>
> Can we please go back to "Horse Racing".
>
>
>
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2018 at 10:38, L.B.Loveday <lloveday at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> General comments on treatment of racehorses (and racing dogs).
>
>
>
> I know horses are not humans, I know what anthropomorphism is, but
> nonetheless there are traits that seem common to humans and many animals,
> including horses.
>
>
>
> I don't need to ask to know that every man I know would prefer the crop to
> being gelded, yet gelding horses is almost never questioned whereas a few
> whacks with a crop brings hysteria. Gelding causes much physical pain,
> especially in the 20% of cases that have after-op complications, and a
> number die. As to psychological pain, who can tell? Not this mere punter,
> nor I believe, any person with certainty.
>
>
>
> I'm not so sure about women, but my guess is a very large majority would
> prefer the crop to being raped, but that is what humans subject mares to -
> "hold them down" and have a male rape them, no choice, no foreplay for the
> mare. The great mare Light Fingers was "racist" - she hated Greys and would
> try to bite them on the track. So how would she have liked being held down
> and raped by a grey stallion? She hated it so much that she failed to
> conceive in her first two seasons. No protests about that, but hysteria if
> horses are given a couple of whacks with a crop.
>
>
>
> Pigs are generally acknowledged as much more intelligent animals than
> horses, yet they are subjected to terrible conditions so humans can have
> their Christmas ham, and the legislated minimum conditions are
> insignificant compared to the hysteria that caused legislation to ban dog
> racing, albeit withdrawn, and the calls to ban the crop, and indeed horse
> racing. I've seen pigs slaughtered, and they are far, far from "lambs to
> the slaughter", they are terrified but go down fighting.
>
>
>
> Rats are generally acknowledged as more intelligent animals than horses,
> yet they are subjected to terrible suffering before death mercifully brings
> relief, by the use of poisons such as warfarin, sold as Ratsak in
> Australian stores, which cause internal bleeding that can take days to kill
> - I have seen rats jump into a fish pond attempting to mitigate the
> suffering. Yet no outcry that I've seen, let alone the hysteria when a
> horse gets a few whacks with a crop, or breaks a leg and is quickly killed;
> compare that to a horse in the outback -when it breaks a leg can take a
> week or more to die of dehydration.
>
>
>
> I've lived where when a dog was ran over, the body was quartered and the
> parts auctioned off, where the local boys would catch cats and spit
> barbeque them for a bit of meat, yet do that in South Australia, and jail
> awaits - how it is a rationally a crime to eat dog  (about the first
> legislation passed by Rann when he won government in 2002), but ok to trap
> and eat Thumper or Bugs Bunny is beyond me.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Racing <racing-bounces at ausrace.com> *On Behalf Of *L.B.Loveday
> *Sent:* Sunday, 25 November 2018 2:46 PM
> *To:* 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' <racing at ausrace.com>
> *Subject:* [AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?
>
>
>
> Just saw this looking through the Archives.  I have no idea what Jory's
> been diagnosed as other than I know he's undergone prostatectomy. How you
> have formed the opinion "*Didn't think so*" is beyond my comprehension
> maybe you know him personally.
>
>
>
> From Merriam-Webster, my on-line English reference of choice:
>
>
>
> Senile: of, relating to, exhibiting, or characteristic of old age
>
>
>
> My grandfather's death certificate (died at 94) showed "Cause of Death:
> Senility" which upset my mother until I explained to her the sense in which
> it was used. Everyone's mental acumen decreases along with their physical
> ability as they age, and Jory's certainly has.
>
>
>
> I have had private communication debates with Jory, and some of what he
> has written to me is at best rationally indisputably rubbish, and
> demonstrated an inability to think outside what he what written. An example
> - he screamed blue murder that a 83yo was on a waiting list for a hip
> replacement and that he should be given priority because of his age. He
> accepted that there was a waiting list of mostly, almost all even, younger
> people but would in no way accept that they should not be moved back, that
> if the oldest were operated on first, the young would have to wait for
> years more, possibly dying before their turn came, as those older would
> always be prioritised, that there was an economic case for the opposite -
> repair the youngest first so they can work productively and pay taxes
>  which help to support the elderly - or a fairness case that the old bloke
> had had 80+ years of good life, would it not be fair to repair the young
> first so they could hopefully have the same… I was not advocating anything
> other than saying it was wrong for an 83yo to jump the queue simply because
> of age, but all Jory could do was write "But he's 83"…..
>
>
>
> Chris Munce donated a crop to my old football club, and the boys belted
> each other with it; of course it stung, like a slap from a missus stings,
> but it did not break skin or result in a bruise, and I warrant the boys
> were stronger even than Justin Sheehan and Mick Dittman. Horses of course
> have far thicker hides than the boys.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Len,
>
> Has he been medically diagnosed as senile?
>
> Didn't think so.
>
> He never stated that Gai et al are physically and psychologically cruel to their horses, he said that whipping a horse to try and improve its performance by running longer or faster has no place in racing and would be considered cruel if done outside of an actual race.
>
> I totally agree.
>
> When riding horses, I carry a whip purely for safety purposes and so should jockeys.
>
> A horse can feel a fly on it's rear, so to even suggest that a horse doesn't feel pain from a whip, makes no sense at all.
>
> Smart horses dump the jockey after the line, some not so smart, tear suspensory ligaments, have heart attacks, bleed, and quite a few die post-race.
>
> If it's not cruel to the horse, why do many stand flat footed at the gates (forgetting Chautauqua).
>
> Why have the rules been tightened on the type of whip, the number of strikes, where the horse can be struck, and harness racing considering a complete ban.
>
> Working with ex racehorses, I see firsthand both the physical and mental damage the use of a whip other than for jockey safety can cause.
>
> Mostly the damage is irreparable.
>
> Lindsay
>
>
>
> From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com <http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com>] On Behalf Of L.B.Loveday
>
> Sent: Sunday, 26 August 2018 5:16 PM
>
> To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List'
>
> Subject: [AusRace] They never let up re crops, do they?
>
>
>
> Rex Jory is well into his 70's and somewhat senile. Does the idiot think Gai et alia are "physically and psychologically cruel" to their horses?
>
>
>
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