From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Mon Jun 4 08:34:42 2018 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 08:34:42 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] From The Australian Message-ID: <007201d3fb8b$1155add0$34010970$@ozemail.com.au> He's back! Just when you thought it was safe to return to the lounge room, Tom Waterhouse is coming back to your screens. Diary hears the high-profile bookie, son of Robbie and Gai Waterhouse, is this week meeting with advertising reps at major media companies to flesh out a campaign to run across TV, print and radio in coming months. His personal brand took its share of knocks before he sold his Tomwaterhouse.com -online bookie business to William Hill back in 2013. Many people were definitely not fans of the blanket coverage he paid for -ads and football telecasts, which effectively made him the face of online betting in Australia. Even former treasurer Joe Hockey said it was "wrong to have a bookie so -involved in the coverage of the footy". Five years later, Waterhouse now admits the coverage was "polarising" and he has learned to take a more balanced approach to media promotion. But it has not deterred him from buying ad space once more, now that he controls the Tomwaterhouse.com domain name once again. This time, he wants to plug not his bookie services but a new site peddling horse tips, through packages costing subscribers up to $120,000 a year. At that price, they'd want to be some darned good tips. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Wed Jun 6 21:23:42 2018 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2018 19:23:42 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday Message-ID: <000001d3fd88$d47a97e0$7d6fc7a0$@bigpond.com> Wondering when the barrier draw for Saturdays Stradbroke Hcp at Doomben took place At lunch time it was https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/future-final-field/2018-06-09/doomb en/competition-1043038/event-37983885/race-5 with barriers 3,4,5,11,14,16,20 to be allocated - a horse nominee required. On the TabTouch website the field looks like this (5 hours later) https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/2018-06-09/br/5 see the disparity? I mean nothing moved, those with a barrier retained their number but the display took a long time to change to the final field - this might be a TAB fault Tab Nrs 2,3,4 got barriers 3,5,20, 11 got barrier 16, and 18 and 19 got barriers 4 and 11. System players were catered for - number 10 got number 10, number 13 got number 13 - there is a system for that (seriously) - when the numbers co-incide go ahead and bet. Form runners appear to be 18,1,21,20. Doublets appear to be 1,2, 18,19 - this is just another way at looking at form. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sat Jun 9 12:46:59 2018 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 10:46:59 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday - The Barrier 'Split' - a system Message-ID: <000001d3ff9c$240b7cb0$6c227610$@bigpond.com> Not a lot of interaction from this - none then With the emergencies removed by ballot it seems The form runners appear to be 1, 16,15,11 Doublets appear to be (1,2),15, (14,16) You can't back them all - (acksurely you can in this race) The barrier clause is horse 5, barrier 5 The teasers are 2 in 3, 3 in 4, 11 in 12, 12 in 11, 14 in 13 There is system for this so it's real, right? The stats, places, survive because of the number of runners working for you. I don't use it nor do I suggest you do. The 'split', a system clause based around the teaser +1 is 10 in 8 but to me this seems like the teaser -1 (minus 1), good luck with this. Ysterday, the barrier system failed a selection test in Swan Hill race 8 but the 'split' got 20.70/5.50 place In race 7 - 21.50/5.10 place In race 6 - loss 33.60/5.90 In race 5 - winner 13 in 13, $2 place, no split selection placed, and there were a few. My copy is a Xeroxed page, you paid $8 for it, cash only, and mine was bought out of Popular Mechanics. Cheers Tony From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 7:24 PM To: 'racing at ausrace.com' Subject: Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday Wondering when the barrier draw for Saturdays Stradbroke Hcp at Doomben took place At lunch time it was https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/future-final-field/2018-06-09/doomb en/competition-1043038/event-37983885/race-5 with barriers 3,4,5,11,14,16,20 to be allocated - a horse nominee required. On the TabTouch website the field looks like this (5 hours later) https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/2018-06-09/br/5 see the disparity? I mean nothing moved, those with a barrier retained their number but the display took a long time to change to the final field - this might be a TAB fault Tab Nrs 2,3,4 got barriers 3,5,20, 11 got barrier 16, and 18 and 19 got barriers 4 and 11. System players were catered for - number 10 got number 10, number 13 got number 13 - there is a system for that (seriously) - when the numbers co-incide go ahead and bet. Form runners appear to be 18,1,21,20. Doublets appear to be 1,2, 18,19 - this is just another way at looking at form. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sat Jun 9 21:00:58 2018 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 19:00:58 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday - The Barrier 'Split' - a system Message-ID: <000001d3ffe1$27b193f0$7714bbd0$@bigpond.com> And for completeness the result is 2,13,16 14.00/4.25, 0, 5.00/2.00 The barrier clause horse at the end was 13 in 13 It placed 2nd -31.00/7.50 Shillelagh?, 10 in 10 failed to flatter. Split barrier selection was The Monstar, which ran back in the pack. Skye Bogenhuber then ubered to Toowoomba where she rode well later in the afternoon. From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 10:47 AM To: 'racing at ausrace.com' Subject: RE: Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday - The Barrier 'Split' - a system Not a lot of interaction from this - none then With the emergencies removed by ballot it seems The form runners appear to be 1, 16,15,11 Doublets appear to be (1,2),15, (14,16) You can't back them all - (acksurely you can in this race) The barrier clause is horse 5, barrier 5 The teasers are 2 in 3, 3 in 4, 11 in 12, 12 in 11, 14 in 13 There is system for this so it's real, right? The stats, places, survive because of the number of runners working for you. I don't use it nor do I suggest you do. The 'split', a system clause based around the teaser +1 is 10 in 8 but to me this seems like the teaser -1 (minus 1), good luck with this. Ysterday, the barrier system failed a selection test in Swan Hill race 8 but the 'split' got 20.70/5.50 place In race 7 - 21.50/5.10 place In race 6 - loss 33.60/5.90 In race 5 - winner 13 in 13, $2 place, no split selection placed, and there were a few. My copy is a Xeroxed page, you paid $8 for it, cash only, and mine was bought out of Popular Mechanics. Cheers Tony From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 7:24 PM To: 'racing at ausrace.com' > Subject: Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday Wondering when the barrier draw for Saturdays Stradbroke Hcp at Doomben took place At lunch time it was https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/future-final-field/2018-06-09/doomb en/competition-1043038/event-37983885/race-5 with barriers 3,4,5,11,14,16,20 to be allocated - a horse nominee required. On the TabTouch website the field looks like this (5 hours later) https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/2018-06-09/br/5 see the disparity? I mean nothing moved, those with a barrier retained their number but the display took a long time to change to the final field - this might be a TAB fault Tab Nrs 2,3,4 got barriers 3,5,20, 11 got barrier 16, and 18 and 19 got barriers 4 and 11. System players were catered for - number 10 got number 10, number 13 got number 13 - there is a system for that (seriously) - when the numbers co-incide go ahead and bet. Form runners appear to be 18,1,21,20. Doublets appear to be 1,2, 18,19 - this is just another way at looking at form. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sat Jun 9 21:24:29 2018 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 19:24:29 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday - The Barrier 'Split' - a system Message-ID: <000001d3ffe4$6f9ccdd0$4ed66970$@bigpond.com> That went slightly awry - I wrote off the TAB sheet which does not correct barrier after scratching, but the download sheet does. So The Barrier clause runner is 5 Voodoo Lad barrier 5, nowhere The Barrier 'split' runner(s) = 2(won), 3, 11, 12, 14, and please disregard my writings about the others. Way too many words for this system. I don't use it and I don't recommend it. Cheers Tony From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 7:01 PM To: 'racing at ausrace.com' Subject: RE: Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday - The Barrier 'Split' - a system And for completeness the result is 2,13,16 14.00/4.25, 0, 5.00/2.00 The barrier clause horse at the end was 13 in 13 It placed 2nd -31.00/7.50 Shillelagh?, 10 in 10 failed to flatter. Split barrier selection was The Monstar, which ran back in the pack. Skye Bogenhuber then ubered to Toowoomba where she rode well later in the afternoon. From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 10:47 AM To: 'racing at ausrace.com' > Subject: RE: Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday - The Barrier 'Split' - a system Not a lot of interaction from this - none then With the emergencies removed by ballot it seems The form runners appear to be 1, 16,15,11 Doublets appear to be (1,2),15, (14,16) You can't back them all - (acksurely you can in this race) The barrier clause is horse 5, barrier 5 The teasers are 2 in 3, 3 in 4, 11 in 12, 12 in 11, 14 in 13 There is system for this so it's real, right? The stats, places, survive because of the number of runners working for you. I don't use it nor do I suggest you do. The 'split', a system clause based around the teaser +1 is 10 in 8 but to me this seems like the teaser -1 (minus 1), good luck with this. Ysterday, the barrier system failed a selection test in Swan Hill race 8 but the 'split' got 20.70/5.50 place In race 7 - 21.50/5.10 place In race 6 - loss 33.60/5.90 In race 5 - winner 13 in 13, $2 place, no split selection placed, and there were a few. My copy is a Xeroxed page, you paid $8 for it, cash only, and mine was bought out of Popular Mechanics. Cheers Tony From: Tony Moffat [mailto:tonymoffat at bigpond.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 7:24 PM To: 'racing at ausrace.com' > Subject: Stradbroke Hcp - Saturday Wondering when the barrier draw for Saturdays Stradbroke Hcp at Doomben took place At lunch time it was https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/future-final-field/2018-06-09/doomb en/competition-1043038/event-37983885/race-5 with barriers 3,4,5,11,14,16,20 to be allocated - a horse nominee required. On the TabTouch website the field looks like this (5 hours later) https://www.tabtouch.com.au/racing/2018-06-09/br/5 see the disparity? I mean nothing moved, those with a barrier retained their number but the display took a long time to change to the final field - this might be a TAB fault Tab Nrs 2,3,4 got barriers 3,5,20, 11 got barrier 16, and 18 and 19 got barriers 4 and 11. System players were catered for - number 10 got number 10, number 13 got number 13 - there is a system for that (seriously) - when the numbers co-incide go ahead and bet. Form runners appear to be 18,1,21,20. Doublets appear to be 1,2, 18,19 - this is just another way at looking at form. Cheers Tony --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sun Jun 17 17:34:08 2018 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemcbain at tpg.com.au Mon Jun 18 11:03:10 2018 From: mikemcbain at tpg.com.au (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Par times In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au> Norsaint Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but please note Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is still the same viz stavros at wn.com.au? Might be worth your while asking Steven? Mike. From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Mon Jun 18 11:49:07 2018 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Par times In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au> Nick, "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight conditions?? So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every Australian race for the past 20+ years, including: Date, Course, Distance, Class, Limit Weight, Weight carried by placegetters, Condition, No of starters, Prizemoney, and of course Time You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are just relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without knowing the basis of his determinations. LBL From: Racing On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Mon Jun 18 20:58:56 2018 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Par times In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com> Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big Is this the type of info you need? Who does this? Cheers Tony Ball a rat 900 (firm) 51.8 900 (good) 52.5 900 (soft) 53.4 900 (heavy) 54.6 1000 (firm) 56.5 1000 (good) 57.9 1000 (soft) 59.1 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 1100 (good) 1.3.9 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 1200 (good) 1.10.3 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 1400 (good) 1.24.5 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 1500 (good) 1.32.6 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 1600 (good) 1.37.8 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 2000 (good) 2.6.1 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 2200 (good) 2.17.7 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Mon Jun 18 21:26:46 2018 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:26:46 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: G'day Mike, Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too but had forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 18/06/18, 21:24:56 On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM wrote: > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) > 2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) > 3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > 4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com" > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: > rSqgg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > [image: Mailtrack] > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > 17/06/18, > 17:33:07 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180617/54cc8783/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > From: > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing the par > times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is touring Australia > if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is happy to talk about Bet > Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else racing related). Venues and > dates are listed below but please note Steven has a new mobile number which > is 0413164550. His email is still the same viz > stavros at wn.com.au? > > > > Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > Mike. > > > > > > From: Racing On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275> > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > > > Sender notified by > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/4acfb28d/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > From: "L.B.Loveday" > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Nick, > > > > "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in various > ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on the day, but by > permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind direction, > riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class of horses, > whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" leaders and whether they vie > for the lead, weight conditions?? > > > > So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every Australian > race for the past 20+ years, including: > > > > Date, > > Course, > > Distance, > > Class, > > Limit Weight, > > Weight carried by placegetters, > > Condition, > > No of starters, > > Prizemoney, > > and of course Time > > > > You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll write a > program and send you the results; otherwise you are just relying on someone > else's methodology, almost certainly without knowing the basis of his > determinations. > > > > LBL > > > > From: Racing On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275> > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > > > Sender notified by > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/a0f92a71/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > From: "Tony Moffat" > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big > > Is this the type of info you need? > > Who does this? > > Cheers > > Tony > > > > Ball a rat > > 900 (firm) 51.8 > > 900 (good) 52.5 > > 900 (soft) 53.4 > > 900 (heavy) 54.6 > > 1000 (firm) 56.5 > > 1000 (good) 57.9 > > 1000 (soft) 59.1 > > 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > 1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > 1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > 1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > 1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > 1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > 2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > 2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275> > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > > > Sender notified by > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/60a93de3/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > ************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Mon Jun 18 21:33:26 2018 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:33:26 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, you'll be my first port of call. Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but his stats must be outdated by now. For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which makes replying damned confusing. [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 18/06/18, 21:27:22 On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com < norsaintpublishing at gmail.com> wrote: > G'day Mike, > Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too but had forgotten > all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > [image: Mailtrack] > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > 18/06/18, > 21:24:56 > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM wrote: > >> Send Racing mailing list submissions to >> racing at ausrace.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> racing-request at ausrace.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> racing-owner at ausrace.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) >> 2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) >> 3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) >> 4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 >> From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com" >> To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> Subject: [AusRace] Par times >> Message-ID: >> > rSqgg at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? >> >> >> [image: Mailtrack] >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& >> > >> Sender >> notified by >> Mailtrack >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& >> > >> 17/06/18, >> 17:33:07 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180617/54cc8783/attachment-0001.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 >> From: >> To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" >> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times >> Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Norsaint >> >> >> >> Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. >> >> >> >> ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing the par >> times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is touring Australia >> if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is happy to talk about Bet >> Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else racing related). Venues and >> dates are listed below but please note Steven has a new mobile number which >> is 0413164550. His email is still the same viz >> stavros at wn.com.au? >> >> >> >> Might be worth your while asking Steven? >> >> >> >> Mike. >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Racing On Behalf Of >> norsaintpublishing at gmail.com >> Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 >> To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> Subject: [AusRace] Par times >> >> >> >> < >> https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275> >> >> >> >> Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? >> >> >> >> >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> >> >> >> Sender notified by >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> >> Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/4acfb28d/attachment-0001.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 >> From: "L.B.Loveday" >> To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" >> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times >> Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Nick, >> >> >> >> "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in >> various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on the day, >> but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind >> direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class of >> horses, whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" leaders and whether >> they vie for the lead, weight conditions?? >> >> >> >> So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every Australian >> race for the past 20+ years, including: >> >> >> >> Date, >> >> Course, >> >> Distance, >> >> Class, >> >> Limit Weight, >> >> Weight carried by placegetters, >> >> Condition, >> >> No of starters, >> >> Prizemoney, >> >> and of course Time >> >> >> >> You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll write a >> program and send you the results; otherwise you are just relying on someone >> else's methodology, almost certainly without knowing the basis of his >> determinations. >> >> >> >> LBL >> >> >> >> From: Racing On Behalf Of >> norsaintpublishing at gmail.com >> Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM >> To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> Subject: [AusRace] Par times >> >> >> >> < >> https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275> >> >> >> >> Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? >> >> >> >> >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> >> >> >> Sender notified by >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> >> Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/a0f92a71/attachment-0001.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 >> From: "Tony Moffat" >> To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" >> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times >> Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big >> >> Is this the type of info you need? >> >> Who does this? >> >> Cheers >> >> Tony >> >> >> >> Ball a rat >> >> 900 (firm) 51.8 >> >> 900 (good) 52.5 >> >> 900 (soft) 53.4 >> >> 900 (heavy) 54.6 >> >> 1000 (firm) 56.5 >> >> 1000 (good) 57.9 >> >> 1000 (soft) 59.1 >> >> 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 >> >> 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 >> >> 1100 (good) 1.3.9 >> >> 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 >> >> 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 >> >> 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 >> >> 1200 (good) 1.10.3 >> >> 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 >> >> 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 >> >> 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 >> >> 1400 (good) 1.24.5 >> >> 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 >> >> 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 >> >> 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 >> >> 1500 (good) 1.32.6 >> >> 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 >> >> 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 >> >> 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 >> >> 1600 (good) 1.37.8 >> >> 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 >> >> 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 >> >> 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 >> >> 2000 (good) 2.6.1 >> >> 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 >> >> 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 >> >> 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 >> >> 2200 (good) 2.17.7 >> >> 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 >> >> 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 >> >> >> >> From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of >> norsaintpublishing at gmail.com >> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM >> To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> Subject: [AusRace] Par times >> >> >> >> < >> https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275> >> >> >> >> Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? >> >> >> >> >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> >> >> >> Sender notified by >> < >> https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> >> Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >> https://www.avg.com >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/60a93de3/attachment.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Racing mailing list >> Racing at ausrace.com >> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 >> ************************************* >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemcbain at tpg.com.au Tue Jun 19 09:05:10 2018 From: mikemcbain at tpg.com.au (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:05:10 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Par Times Message-ID: <000601d40758$cf3c0280$6db40780$@tpg.com.au> Norsaint Cannot be an ?age thing? or my 81yo brain would have long forgotten it too. Mike. G'day Mike, Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too but had forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From awchildmelb at gmail.com Tue Jun 19 19:45:14 2018 From: awchildmelb at gmail.com (Andrew Child) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:45:14 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Test Message-ID: I seem to be missing stuff, according to the June archive - Len's post, and four of Tony's re Stradbroke! From RaceStats at hotmail.com Tue Jun 19 23:41:12 2018 From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:41:12 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Nick, Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d give you a little bit of extra information. Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. Often you will find that track record times are often on many races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than the rating. Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this will give you the pace time. You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast last sectional, then pace time. You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all or most races are above that par. Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that are not correct. Lindsay. From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275] Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, you'll be my first port of call. Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but his stats must be outdated by now. For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which makes replying damned confusing. [Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 18/06/18, 21:27:22 On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > wrote: [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275] G'day Mike, Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too but had forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. [Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 18/06/18, 21:24:56 On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > wrote: Send Racing mailing list submissions to racing at ausrace.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to racing-request at ausrace.com You can reach the person managing the list at racing-owner at ausrace.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) 2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) 3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) 4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com" > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 From: > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Norsaint Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but please note Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is still the same viz > stavros at wn.com.au? Might be worth your while asking Steven? Mike. From: Racing > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 From: "L.B.Loveday" > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Nick, "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight conditions?? So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every Australian race for the past 20+ years, including: Date, Course, Distance, Class, Limit Weight, Weight carried by placegetters, Condition, No of starters, Prizemoney, and of course Time You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are just relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without knowing the basis of his determinations. LBL From: Racing > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 From: "Tony Moffat" > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big Is this the type of info you need? Who does this? Cheers Tony Ball a rat 900 (firm) 51.8 900 (good) 52.5 900 (soft) 53.4 900 (heavy) 54.6 1000 (firm) 56.5 1000 (good) 57.9 1000 (soft) 59.1 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 1100 (good) 1.3.9 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 1200 (good) 1.10.3 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 1400 (good) 1.24.5 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 1500 (good) 1.32.6 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 1600 (good) 1.37.8 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 2000 (good) 2.6.1 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 2200 (good) 2.17.7 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com ------------------------------ End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 08:58:24 2018 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:58:24 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting Lindsay. What about par times for individual classes? And then somehow relating that to open par times? Does that make sense. Got to reply to all on one post, such is the manner it comes through. Mike, your 81 year old brain is obviously in better shape than my 60 year old one. And as for the missing posts re Stradbroke, Andrew, I didn't get any of them. Not sure what the hell is going on the list but receiving posts is now a very rare thing. [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 20/06/18, 08:54:57 On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM wrote: > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Par Times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) > 2. Test (Andrew Child) > 3. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 (Race Stats) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:05:10 +1000 > From: > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: [AusRace] Par Times > Message-ID: <000601d40758$cf3c0280$6db40780$@tpg.com.au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Cannot be an ?age thing? or my 81yo brain would have long forgotten it too. > > > > Mike. > > > > G'day Mike, > > Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too but had forgotten > all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180619/b8ae59b2/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:45:14 +1000 > From: Andrew Child > To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: [AusRace] Test > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I seem to be missing stuff, according to the June archive - Len's post, > and four of Tony's re Stradbroke! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:41:12 +0000 > From: Race Stats > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > Message-ID: > < > MEAPR01MB32057578EF89B5FB7E5005B1BB700 at MEAPR01MB3205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Nick, > Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d give you a > little bit of extra information. > Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > Often you will find that track record times are often on many races one > day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than the rating. > Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final sectional > time and then race time minus sectional time, this will give you the pace > time. > You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, you need > Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast last > sectional, then pace time. > You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all or most > races are above that par. > Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race day, > they cannot change the track rating for the day after that period, only the > Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a change in track rating. Ergo, > there are many ratings that are not correct. > Lindsay. > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > [ > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275 > ] > > Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to come up > with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, you'll be my first > port of call. > Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but his > stats must be outdated by now. > For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which makes > replying damned confusing. > > > > [Mailtrack]< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > 18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com norsaintpublishing at gmail.com> norsaintpublishing at gmail.com>> wrote: > [ > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275 > ] > G'day Mike, > Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too but had forgotten > all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > [Mailtrack]< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > 18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM racing-request at ausrace.com>> wrote: > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com norsaintpublishing at gmail.com>) > 2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) > 3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > 4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com" > > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List racing at ausrace.com>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: > rSqgg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > [image: Mailtrack] > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > 17/06/18, > 17:33:07 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180617/54cc8783/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > From: > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" racing at ausrace.com>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing the par > times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is touring Australia > if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is happy to talk about Bet > Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else racing related). Venues and > dates are listed below but please note Steven has a new mobile number which > is 0413164550. His email is still the same viz > stavros at wn.com.au? > > > > Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > Mike. > > > > > > From: Racing > > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com norsaintpublishing at gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List racing at ausrace.com>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Sender notified by > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/4acfb28d/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > From: "L.B.Loveday" lloveday at ozemail.com.au>> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" racing at ausrace.com>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au< > http://ozemail.com.au>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Nick, > > > > "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in various > ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on the day, but by > permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind direction, > riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class of horses, > whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" leaders and whether they vie > for the lead, weight conditions?? > > > > So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every Australian > race for the past 20+ years, including: > > > > Date, > > Course, > > Distance, > > Class, > > Limit Weight, > > Weight carried by placegetters, > > Condition, > > No of starters, > > Prizemoney, > > and of course Time > > > > You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll write a > program and send you the results; otherwise you are just relying on someone > else's methodology, almost certainly without knowing the basis of his > determinations. > > > > LBL > > > > From: Racing > > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com norsaintpublishing at gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List racing at ausrace.com>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Sender notified by > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/a0f92a71/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > From: "Tony Moffat" >> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" racing at ausrace.com>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com< > http://bigpond.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big > > Is this the type of info you need? > > Who does this? > > Cheers > > Tony > > > > Ball a rat > > 900 (firm) 51.8 > > 900 (good) 52.5 > > 900 (soft) 53.4 > > 900 (heavy) 54.6 > > 1000 (firm) 56.5 > > 1000 (good) 57.9 > > 1000 (soft) 59.1 > > 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > 1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > 1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > 1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > 1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > 1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > 2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > 2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com racing-bounces at ausrace.com>] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List racing at ausrace.com>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Sender notified by > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/60a93de3/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > ************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180619/a0fc3ffa/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > ************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From essbee at internode.on.net Wed Jun 20 09:19:59 2018 From: essbee at internode.on.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:19:59 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No you don't need a time for each going. If you dissected the times that Tony put up as an example, you would see that they are all over the place relatively. Most people that do it that way get, the same inconsistencies, And remember that word....relatively.....as it's the most important thing to consider when doing time One time for each distance at each track is all you need. That way your standards will tell you the going, probably more accurately than the official which is after all just an opinion of whoever is doing whichever track. Good luck though as there is so many inaccurate times, wrong distances, and three zillion ways of giving the section times. SteveB On 19/06/2018 11:41 PM, Race Stats wrote: > > Hi Nick, > > Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d give > you a little bit of extra information. > > Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > > If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > > Often you will find that track record times are often on many races > one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than the rating. > > Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > > Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final > sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this will give > you the pace time. > > You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, you > need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > > Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast last > sectional, then pace time. > > You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > > You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all or > most races are above that par. > > Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race day, > they cannot change the track rating for the day after that period, > only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a change in track > rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that are not correct. > > Lindsay. > > *From:*Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] *On Behalf Of > *norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > *Sent:* Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to come > up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, you'll be > my first port of call. > > Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but his > stats must be outdated by now. > > For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which > makes replying damned confusing. > > > > > Mailtrack > > > > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > > 18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > wrote: > > G'day Mike, > > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > Mailtrack > > > > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > > 18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > wrote: > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? ?1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > ) > ? ?2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > ) > ? ?3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > ? ?4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > " > > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > [image: Mailtrack] > > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > > 17/06/18, > 17:33:07 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > From: > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for > providing the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong > Kong and is touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up > with him (he is happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong > Kong or anything else racing related). Venues and dates are > listed below but please note Steven has a new mobile number > which is 0413164550. His email is still the same viz > > > stavros at wn.com.au ? > > > > Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > Mike. > > > > > > From: Racing > On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > From: "L.B.Loveday" > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Nick, > > > > "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be > calculated in various ways, times are affected by track > condition (not only on the day, but by permanent upgrades such > as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind direction, riding > tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class of horses, > whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" leaders and > whether they vie for the lead, weight conditions?? > > > > So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every > Australian race for the past 20+ years, including: > > > > Date, > > Course, > > Distance, > > Class, > > Limit Weight, > > Weight carried by placegetters, > > Condition, > > No of starters, > > Prizemoney, > > and of course Time > > > > You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll > write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are > just relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly > without knowing the basis of his determinations. > > > > LBL > > > > From: Racing > On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > From: "Tony Moffat" > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it > was big > > Is this the type of info you need? > > Who does this? > > Cheers > > Tony > > > > Ball a rat > > 900 (firm) 51.8 > > 900 (good) 52.5 > > 900 (soft) 53.4 > > 900 (heavy) 54.6 > > 1000 (firm) 56.5 > > 1000 (good) 57.9 > > 1000 (soft) 59.1 > > 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > 1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > 1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > 1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > 1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > 1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > 2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > 2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > ] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > ************************************* > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From essbee at internode.on.net Wed Jun 20 09:28:10 2018 From: essbee at internode.on.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:28:10 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c49c6e7-fffb-d615-ad77-bdfeb896215d@internode.on.net> Ditto Nick If you understand time stuff, then.... Your class figure should be some estimation of central tendency(average/median/whatever) of the speeds. The speed should be the individual. They are both the same thing...one the overall, one the average(or whatever) and that gives you your measuring stick(expectation) Thus your class figure should also just be a percentage of your standard time. For instance G1 at Flemington might be the equivalent of your standard. A low standard benchmark race might be only 98% of your standard. Thus the G1 will be 100 The low one will be 80....or 20 metres per 1000 slower on average SteveB On 20/06/2018 8:58 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote: > Interesting Lindsay. What about par times for individual classes? And > then somehow relating that to open par times? Does that make sense. > Got to reply to all on one post, such is the manner it comes through. > Mike, your 81 year old brain is obviously in better shape than my 60 > year old one. > And as for the missing posts re Stradbroke, Andrew, I didn't get any > of them. Not sure what the hell is going on the list but receiving > posts is now a very rare thing. > > > > Mailtrack > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > > 20/06/18, 08:54:57 > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM > wrote: > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? ?1. Par Times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au ) > ? ?2. Test (Andrew Child) > ? ?3. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 (Race Stats) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:05:10 +1000 > From: > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > Subject: [AusRace] Par Times > Message-ID: <000601d40758$cf3c0280$6db40780$@tpg.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Cannot be an ?age thing? or my 81yo brain would have long > forgotten it too. > > > > Mike. > > > > G'day Mike, > > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:45:14 +1000 > From: Andrew Child > > To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > > Subject: [AusRace] Test > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I seem to be missing stuff, according to the June archive - Len's > post, > and four of Tony's re Stradbroke! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:41:12 +0000 > From: Race Stats > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ? > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Nick, > Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d > give you a little bit of extra information. > Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > Often you will find that track record times are often on many > races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than > the rating. > Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final > sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this will > give you the pace time. > You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, > you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast > last sectional, then pace time. > You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all > or most races are above that par. > Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race > day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that > period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a > change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that are not > correct. > Lindsay. > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > ] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275] > > Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to > come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, > you'll be my first port of call. > Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but > his stats must be outdated by now. > For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which > makes replying damned confusing. > > > > [Mailtrack] > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > 18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > >> wrote: > [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275] > G'day Mike, > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > [Mailtrack] > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > 18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM >> wrote: > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? ?1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > >) > ? ?2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > >) > ? ?3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > ? ?4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > >" > >> > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ? > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > [image: Mailtrack] > > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > > 17/06/18, > 17:33:07 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > From: >> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" >> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing > the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is > touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is > happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else > racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but please note > Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is > still the same viz >> stavros at wn.com.au > >? > > > > Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > Mike. > > > > > > From: Racing >> On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > From: "L.B.Loveday" >> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" >> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Nick, > > > > "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in > various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on > the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail > positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such > as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, two? > "natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight > conditions?? > > > > So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every > Australian race for the past 20+ years,? including: > > > > Date, > > Course, > > Distance, > > Class, > > Limit Weight, > > Weight carried by placegetters, > > Condition, > > No of starters, > > Prizemoney, > > and of course Time > > > > You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll > write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are just > relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without > knowing the basis of his determinations. > > > > LBL > > > > From: Racing >> On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > From: "Tony Moffat" >> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" >> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big > > Is this the type of info you need? > > Who does this? > > Cheers > > Tony > > > > Ball a rat > > 900 (firm) 51.8 > > 900 (good) 52.5 > > 900 (soft) 53.4 > > 900 (heavy) 54.6 > > 1000 (firm) 56.5 > > 1000 (good) 57.9 > > 1000 (soft) 59.1 > > 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > 1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > 1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > 1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > 1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > 1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > 2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > 2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > >] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List >> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > ************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > ************************************* > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 09:44:29 2018 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:44:29 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ok thanks Steve. I think I've got that. I guess any time has to be measured against Open class and adjusted from the relative class figure so might as well just use the one figure from the off. [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 20/06/18, 09:42:33 On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:30 AM wrote: > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 (Steve) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:28:10 +1000 > From: Steve > To: racing at ausrace.com > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <5c49c6e7-fffb-d615-ad77-bdfeb896215d at internode.on.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Ditto Nick > If you understand time stuff, then.... > Your class figure should be some estimation of central > tendency(average/median/whatever) of the speeds. > The speed should be the individual. > They are both the same thing...one the overall, one the average(or > whatever) and that gives you your measuring stick(expectation) > Thus your class figure should also just be a percentage of your standard > time. > For instance G1 at Flemington might be the equivalent of your standard. > A low standard benchmark race might be only 98% of your standard. > Thus the G1 will be 100 > The low one will be 80....or 20 metres per 1000 slower on average > SteveB > > > On 20/06/2018 8:58 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote: > > Interesting Lindsay. What about par times for individual classes? And > > then somehow relating that to open par times? Does that make sense. > > Got to reply to all on one post, such is the manner it comes through. > > Mike, your 81 year old brain is obviously in better shape than my 60 > > year old one. > > And as for the missing posts re Stradbroke, Andrew, I didn't get any > > of them. Not sure what the hell is going on the list but receiving > > posts is now a very rare thing. > > > > > > > > Mailtrack > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > > > Sender notified by > > Mailtrack > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > > > 20/06/18, 08:54:57 > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM > > wrote: > > > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > > racing at ausrace.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > ? ?1. Par Times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au >) > > ? ?2. Test (Andrew Child) > > ? ?3. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 (Race Stats) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:05:10 +1000 > > From: > > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > > Subject: [AusRace] Par Times > > Message-ID: <000601d40758$cf3c0280$6db40780$@tpg.com.au > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Norsaint > > > > > > > > Cannot be an ?age thing? or my 81yo brain would have long > > forgotten it too. > > > > > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > G'day Mike, > > > > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > > forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180619/b8ae59b2/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:45:14 +1000 > > From: Andrew Child > > > > To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > > > > Subject: [AusRace] Test > > Message-ID: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > I seem to be missing stuff, according to the June archive - Len's > > post, > > and four of Tony's re Stradbroke! > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:41:12 +0000 > > From: Race Stats > > > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > Message-ID: > > ? ? ? ? > > < > MEAPR01MB32057578EF89B5FB7E5005B1BB700 at MEAPR01MB3205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com > > MEAPR01MB32057578EF89B5FB7E5005B1BB700 at MEAPR01MB3205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com > >> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Hi Nick, > > Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d > > give you a little bit of extra information. > > Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > > If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > > Often you will find that track record times are often on many > > races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than > > the rating. > > Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > > Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final > > sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this will > > give you the pace time. > > You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, > > you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > > Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast > > last sectional, then pace time. > > You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > > You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all > > or most races are above that par. > > Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race > > day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that > > period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a > > change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that are not > > correct. > > Lindsay. > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > ] On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > > > [ > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275 > ] > > > > Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to > > come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, > > you'll be my first port of call. > > Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but > > his stats must be outdated by now. > > For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which > > makes replying damned confusing. > > > > > > > > [Mailtrack]< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > Sender notified by > > Mailtrack< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > 18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >> wrote: > > [ > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275 > ] > > G'day Mike, > > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > > forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > > > [Mailtrack]< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > Sender notified by > > Mailtrack< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > 18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > racing-request at ausrace.com > > >> wrote: > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > > racing at ausrace.com > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > ? ?1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >) > > ? ?2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > > > >) > > ? ?3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > > ? ?4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > > From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >" > > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >> > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > >> > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > Message-ID: > > ? ? ? ? > > > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > [image: Mailtrack] > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Sender > > notified by > > Mailtrack > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > 17/06/18, > > 17:33:07 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180617/54cc8783/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > > From: > > >> > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > >> > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > > Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Norsaint > > > > > > > > Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > > > > > ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing > > the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is > > touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is > > happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else > > racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but please note > > Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is > > still the same viz > > >> stavros at wn.com.au > > > >? > > > > > > > > Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > > > > > Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Racing > racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > >> On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > >> > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > > ? > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > Sender notified by > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/4acfb28d/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > > From: "L.B.Loveday" > > >> > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > >> > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > > Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Nick, > > > > > > > > "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in > > various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on > > the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail > > positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such > > as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, two? > > "natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight > > conditions?? > > > > > > > > So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every > > Australian race for the past 20+ years,? including: > > > > > > > > Date, > > > > Course, > > > > Distance, > > > > Class, > > > > Limit Weight, > > > > Weight carried by placegetters, > > > > Condition, > > > > No of starters, > > > > Prizemoney, > > > > and of course Time > > > > > > > > You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll > > write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are just > > relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without > > knowing the basis of his determinations. > > > > > > > > LBL > > > > > > > > From: Racing > racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > >> On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > >> > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > > ? > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > Sender notified by > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/a0f92a71/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > > From: "Tony Moffat" > > >> > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > >> > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > > Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big > > > > Is this the type of info you need? > > > > Who does this? > > > > Cheers > > > > Tony > > > > > > > > Ball a rat > > > > 900 (firm) 51.8 > > > > 900 (good) 52.5 > > > > 900 (soft) 53.4 > > > > 900 (heavy) 54.6 > > > > 1000 (firm) 56.5 > > > > 1000 (good) 57.9 > > > > 1000 (soft) 59.1 > > > > 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > > > 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > > > 1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > > > 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > > > 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > > > 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > > > 1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > > > 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > > > 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > > > 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > > > 1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > > > 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > > > 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > > > 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > > > 1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > > > 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > > > 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > > > 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > > > 1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > > > 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > > > 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > > > 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > > > 2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > > > 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > > > 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > > > 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > > > 2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > > > 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > > > 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > >] On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > >> > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > > ? > > < > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > Sender notified by > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > https://www.avg.com > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/60a93de3/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > > > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > ************************************* > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180619/a0fc3ffa/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > > ************************************* > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180620/a8f0f8c4/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 > ************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From essbee at internode.on.net Wed Jun 20 10:03:56 2018 From: essbee at internode.on.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:03:56 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For somebody starting out on times, I would not recommend it! The code I have is 1400 lines long and has evolved over many years. I doubt anybody does it my way, expect for the Woods mob that I helped with it a good few years ago. Finding the standard times would be a huge task if you did not know how to do it. Just finding the averages of each class, on each going, at each track, for instance, is just going to waste your time, AND likely, not worth two bob. I can find the times and class figures for however many tracks in a couple of minutes these days, but it's complex. When momu came to me for help, they had been trying for 6 months and getting nowhere. Iteration where the meetings at each track are treated individually, instead of lumping the data from all meeting at each track together That way you get rid of going problems where the track one day will run different to another.....well you won't get rid of those problems but will lessen the effect of them. Then it's a process of trial and error. Guess.....test.....adjust.....test....adjust...test...until the error is so small it no longer exists SteveB On 20/06/2018 9:44 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote: > Ok thanks Steve. I think I've got that. I guess any time has to be > measured against Open class and adjusted from the relative class > figure so might as well just use the one figure from the off. > > > > > Mailtrack > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > > 20/06/18, 09:42:33 > > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:30 AM > wrote: > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? ?1. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 (Steve) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:28:10 +1000 > From: Steve > > To: racing at ausrace.com > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > Message-ID: <5c49c6e7-fffb-d615-ad77-bdfeb896215d at internode.on.net > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > Ditto Nick > If you understand time stuff, then.... > Your class figure should be some estimation of central > tendency(average/median/whatever) of the speeds. > The speed should be the individual. > They are both the same thing...one the overall, one the average(or > whatever) and that gives you your measuring stick(expectation) > Thus your class figure should also just be a percentage of your > standard > time. > For instance G1 at Flemington might be the equivalent of your > standard. > A low standard benchmark race might be only 98% of your standard. > Thus the G1 will be 100 > The low one will be 80....or 20 metres per 1000 slower on average > SteveB > > > On 20/06/2018 8:58 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > wrote: > > Interesting Lindsay. What about par times for individual > classes? And > > then somehow relating that to open par times? Does that make sense. > > Got to reply to all on one post, such is the manner it comes > through. > > Mike, your 81 year old brain is obviously in better shape than > my 60 > > year old one. > > And as for the missing posts re Stradbroke, Andrew, I didn't get > any > > of them. Not sure what the hell is going on the list but receiving > > posts is now a very rare thing. > > > > > > > > Mailtrack > > > > > >? ? ? ?Sender notified by > > Mailtrack > > > > > > 20/06/18, 08:54:57 > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM > > >> wrote: > > > >? ? ?Send Racing mailing list submissions to > > racing at ausrace.com > > > > > >? ? ?To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > >? ? ?or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > > >? ? ?You can reach the person managing the list at > > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > > > >? ? ?When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > >? ? ?than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > > > >? ? ?Today's Topics: > > > >? ? ?? ?1. Par Times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > >) > >? ? ?? ?2. Test (Andrew Child) > >? ? ?? ?3. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 (Race Stats) > > > > > > > ?---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >? ? ?Message: 1 > >? ? ?Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:05:10 +1000 > >? ? ?From: > >> > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > >? ? ?>> > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par Times > >? ? ?Message-ID: <000601d40758$cf3c0280$6db40780$@tpg.com.au > > >? ? ?> > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > >? ? ?Norsaint > > > > > > > >? ? ?Cannot be an ?age thing? or my 81yo brain would have long > >? ? ?forgotten it too. > > > > > > > >? ? ?Mike. > > > > > > > >? ? ?G'day Mike, > > > >? ? ?? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > >? ? ?forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >? ? ?URL: > >? ? > ? > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?Message: 2 > >? ? ?Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:45:14 +1000 > >? ? ?From: Andrew Child > >? ? ?>> > >? ? ?To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > >? ? ?>> > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Test > >? ? ?Message-ID: > >? ? ? >> > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > >? ? ?I seem to be missing stuff, according to the June archive - > Len's > >? ? ?post, > >? ? ?and four of Tony's re Stradbroke! > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?Message: 3 > >? ? ?Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:41:12 +0000 > >? ? ?From: Race Stats > >? ? ?>> > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > >? ? ?>> > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > >? ? ?Message-ID: > >? ? ?? ? ? ? > >? ? > ? > >? ? > ? >> > > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > >? ? ?Hi Nick, > >? ? ?Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d > >? ? ?give you a little bit of extra information. > >? ? ?Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > >? ? ?If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > >? ? ?Often you will find that track record times are often on many > >? ? ?races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than > >? ? ?the rating. > >? ? ?Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > >? ? ?Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final > >? ? ?sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this > will > >? ? ?give you the pace time. > >? ? ?You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just > Soft, > >? ? ?you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > >? ? ?Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast > >? ? ?last sectional, then pace time. > >? ? ?You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > >? ? ?You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong > when all > >? ? ?or most races are above that par. > >? ? ?Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on > race > >? ? ?day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that > >? ? ?period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a > >? ? ?change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that > are not > >? ? ?correct. > >? ? ?Lindsay. > > > >? ? ?From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > >? ? ? >] On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ?Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > > >? ? > ?[https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275] > > > >? ? ?Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the > concept to > >? ? ?come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, > >? ? ?you'll be my first port of call. > >? ? ?Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's > ago but > >? ? ?his stats must be outdated by now. > >? ? ?For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated > which > >? ? ?makes replying damned confusing. > > > > > > > >? ? > ?[Mailtrack] > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > >? ? > ?Mailtrack > >? ? ?18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > > > >? ? ?On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >> > >? ? ? > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>> wrote: > >? ? > ?[https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275] > >? ? ?G'day Mike, > >? ? ?? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > >? ? ?forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > > >? ? > ?[Mailtrack] > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > >? ? > ?Mailtrack > >? ? ?18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > > > >? ? ?On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>> wrote: > >? ? ?Send Racing mailing list submissions to > > racing at ausrace.com > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>> > > > >? ? ?To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > >? ? ?or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > racing-request at ausrace.com > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >> > > > >? ? ?You can reach the person managing the list at > > racing-owner at ausrace.com > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >> > > > >? ? ?When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > >? ? ?than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > > > >? ? ?Today's Topics: > > > >? ? ?? ?1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>) > >? ? ?? ?2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>) > >? ? ?? ?3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > >? ? ?? ?4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > > > > > ?---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >? ? ?Message: 1 > >? ? ?Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > >? ? ?From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>" > >? ? ? > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>> > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > >? ? ?Message-ID: > >? ? ?? ? ? ? > >? ? > ? > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > >? ? ?[image: Mailtrack] > >? ? > ? > >? ? ?Sender > >? ? ?notified by > >? ? ?Mailtrack > >? ? > ? > >? ? ?17/06/18, > >? ? ?17:33:07 > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >? ? ?URL: > >? ? > ? > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?Message: 2 > >? ? ?Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > >? ? ?From: > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > >? ? ?Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au > > >? ? ?> > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > >? ? ?Norsaint > > > > > > > >? ? ?Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > > > > >? ? ??Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing > >? ? ?the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is > >? ? ?touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him > (he is > >? ? ?happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or > anything else > >? ? ?racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but > please note > >? ? ?Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is > >? ? ?still the same viz > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > stavros at wn.com.au > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>? > > > > > > > >? ? ?Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > > > > >? ? ?Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?From: Racing > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>> On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >> > >? ? ?Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > >? ? > ? > > > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > >? ? > ?? > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > >? ? > ?? > >? ? ?Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >? ? ?URL: > >? ? > ? > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?Message: 3 > >? ? ?Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > >? ? ?From: "L.B.Loveday" > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>> > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > >? ? ?Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au > > >? ? ?> > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > >? ? ?Nick, > > > > > > > >? ? ?"Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be > calculated in > >? ? ?various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on > >? ? ?the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail > >? ? ?positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps > such > >? ? ?as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, > two? > >? ? ?"natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight > >? ? ?conditions?? > > > > > > > >? ? ?So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every > >? ? ?Australian race for the past 20+ years,? including: > > > > > > > >? ? ?Date, > > > >? ? ?Course, > > > >? ? ?Distance, > > > >? ? ?Class, > > > >? ? ?Limit Weight, > > > >? ? ?Weight carried by placegetters, > > > >? ? ?Condition, > > > >? ? ?No of starters, > > > >? ? ?Prizemoney, > > > >? ? ?and of course Time > > > > > > > >? ? ?You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll > >? ? ?write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are just > >? ? ?relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without > >? ? ?knowing the basis of his determinations. > > > > > > > >? ? ?LBL > > > > > > > >? ? ?From: Racing > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>> On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >> > >? ? ?Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > >? ? > ? > > > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > >? ? > ?? > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > >? ? > ?? > >? ? ?Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >? ? ?URL: > >? ? > ? > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?Message: 4 > >? ? ?Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > >? ? ?From: "Tony Moffat" > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>> > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > >? ? ?Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com > > >? ? ?> > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > >? ? ?Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? > it was big > > > >? ? ?Is this the type of info you need? > > > >? ? ?Who does this? > > > >? ? ?Cheers > > > >? ? ?Tony > > > > > > > >? ? ?Ball a rat > > > >? ? ?900 (firm) 51.8 > > > >? ? ?900 (good) 52.5 > > > >? ? ?900 (soft) 53.4 > > > >? ? ?900 (heavy) 54.6 > > > >? ? ?1000 (firm) 56.5 > > > >? ? ?1000 (good) 57.9 > > > >? ? ?1000 (soft) 59.1 > > > >? ? ?1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > > >? ? ?1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > > >? ? ?1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > > >? ? ?1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > > >? ? ?1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > > >? ? ?1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > > >? ? ?1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > > >? ? ?1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > > >? ? ?1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > > >? ? ?1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > > >? ? ?1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > > >? ? ?1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > > >? ? ?1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > > >? ? ?1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > > >? ? ?1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > > >? ? ?1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > > >? ? ?1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > > >? ? ?1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > > >? ? ?1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > > >? ? ?1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > > >? ? ?1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > > >? ? ?2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > > >? ? ?2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > > >? ? ?2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > > >? ? ?2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > > >? ? ?2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > > >? ? ?2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > > >? ? ?2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > > >? ? ?2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > > > > >? ? ?From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >>] On Behalf Of > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >> > >? ? ?Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>>> > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > >? ? > ? > > > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > >? ? > ?? > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > >? ? > ?? > >? ? ?Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?--- > >? ? ?This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > https://www.avg.com > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >? ? ?URL: > >? ? > ? > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?Subject: Digest Footer > > > >? ? ?_______________________________________________ > >? ? ?Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > >? ? ? > > >? ? ?>> > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > >? ? ?************************************* > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >? ? ?URL: > >? ? > ? > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?Subject: Digest Footer > > > >? ? ?_______________________________________________ > >? ? ?Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > >? ? ?End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > >? ? ?************************************* > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 > ************************************* > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RaceStats at hotmail.com Wed Jun 20 12:27:16 2018 From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 02:27:16 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, I know you?re the time guru, but your post has me scratching my head. How will your standards tell you the going, when it might be a number of Group 1 and Maiden races? Or in Melbourne most Group 1 races are run in Spring when the tracks are better going, and Open races are run all year round. Then there?s 3200m hurdles and steeples etc, obviously the time is going to be quite different to all flat races over 3200m, so the hurdles and steeples will seem Heavy 10 and the flat races will seem Firm 2?..just putting it out there, as that?s just an example of how deriving track condition from time is error prone. Lindsay. From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2018 9:20 AM To: racing at ausrace.com Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 No you don't need a time for each going. If you dissected the times that Tony put up as an example, you would see that they are all over the place relatively. Most people that do it that way get, the same inconsistencies, And remember that word....relatively.....as it's the most important thing to consider when doing time One time for each distance at each track is all you need. That way your standards will tell you the going, probably more accurately than the official which is after all just an opinion of whoever is doing whichever track. Good luck though as there is so many inaccurate times, wrong distances, and three zillion ways of giving the section times. SteveB On 19/06/2018 11:41 PM, Race Stats wrote: Hi Nick, Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d give you a little bit of extra information. Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. Often you will find that track record times are often on many races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than the rating. Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this will give you the pace time. You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast last sectional, then pace time. You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all or most races are above that par. Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that are not correct. Lindsay. From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275] Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, you'll be my first port of call. Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but his stats must be outdated by now. For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which makes replying damned confusing. [Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 18/06/18, 21:27:22 On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > wrote: [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275] G'day Mike, Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too but had forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. [Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 18/06/18, 21:24:56 On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > wrote: Send Racing mailing list submissions to racing at ausrace.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to racing-request at ausrace.com You can reach the person managing the list at racing-owner at ausrace.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) 2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au) 3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) 4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com" > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 From: > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Norsaint Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but please note Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is still the same viz > stavros at wn.com.au? Might be worth your while asking Steven? Mike. From: Racing > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 From: "L.B.Loveday" > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Nick, "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight conditions?? So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every Australian race for the past 20+ years, including: Date, Course, Distance, Class, Limit Weight, Weight carried by placegetters, Condition, No of starters, Prizemoney, and of course Time You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are just relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without knowing the basis of his determinations. LBL From: Racing > On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 From: "Tony Moffat" > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big Is this the type of info you need? Who does this? Cheers Tony Ball a rat 900 (firm) 51.8 900 (good) 52.5 900 (soft) 53.4 900 (heavy) 54.6 1000 (firm) 56.5 1000 (good) 57.9 1000 (soft) 59.1 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 1100 (good) 1.3.9 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 1200 (good) 1.10.3 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 1400 (good) 1.24.5 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 1500 (good) 1.32.6 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 1600 (good) 1.37.8 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 2000 (good) 2.6.1 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 2200 (good) 2.17.7 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: [AusRace] Par times Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? Sender notified by Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com ------------------------------ End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 ************************************* _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Jun 20 13:24:34 2018 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 13:24:34 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] This does not look helpful to punters Message-ID: <007901d40846$39e3f280$adabd780$@ozemail.com.au> "TBH continues to execute on its wholesale business strategy with a range of initiatives" Expands Wholesale Offering by Acquiring 100% of World-Class Data Feed Company Sydney, June 14, 2018 AEST (ABN Newswire) - TopBetta Holdings Limited ( ASX:TBH) ("TBH" or the "Company") is pleased to announce that it has entered into a binding, conditional heads of agreement ("Heads of Agreement") to acquire 100% of the shares in data and betting tools company, DynamicOdds Pty Ltd ("DynamicOdds"), and its associated licensing brands ("Assets") (www.dynamicodds.com.au ) ("Acquisition"). The DynamicOdds brand is a provider of wagering data in Australia and currently supplies data feeds to (and delivers data on behalf of) Australia's Principal Racing Authorities as well as a number of Australia's licensed bookmakers and sophisticated punters. The data feeds provided by DynamicOdds are a key component for bookmakers both online and on-track in their fixed odds pricing models. Highlights - TBH enters into a conditional, binding Heads of Agreement to acquire data and betting tools provider, DynamicOdds.com.au - DynamicOdds provides live data solutions to Australia's Principal Racing Authorities - DynamicOdds provides the tools for bookmakers to power their fixed odds products - DynamicOdds acquisition to progress and consolidate TBH's wholesale strategy - TopBetta and MadBookie sale update - Red Leaf Securities appointed as Corporate Advisor TopBetta's CEO, Todd Buckingham commented: "DynamicOdds has developed a reputation as a respected provider of data and betting tools within the Australian racing industry and is a perfect fit for the TBH wholesale business model. "We're excited about the opportunity to continue to develop and enhance the current technology stack that helps punters make bets, and bookmakers take bets. At the same time, we also see a huge opportunity to expand the business into other verticals via partnerships with sporting and racing bodies globally. This acquisition is the perfect complementary business to continue with our Company's growth." DynamicOdds CTO Karl Begg and CEO David Begg commented: "DynamicOdds was established in 2006 as a platform for both punters and industry professionals to analyse and monitor the betting markets for the Australian racing codes. "Since its inception, DynamicOdds has established itself as an integral part of the Australian wagering landscape at both retail and commercial levels. "In August 2016, Racing Victoria commissioned DynamicOdds to provide an 'official price' for Victorian thoroughbred racing. DynamicOdds not only supplies the systems to produce and manage the official price, but also the infrastructure to display the price via on-course display networks. The official price service was quickly adopted by all other state thoroughbred racing authorities and implemented by second quarter 2017. "Combining both the experience and expertise of DynamicOdds, TBH and its subsidiaries, will ensure continued growth as we explore all opportunities within racing and sports markets domestically and into the UK and US markets." Key terms of the Heads of Agreement TBH has agreed to purchase 100% of the shares in DynamicOdds ("DO Shares"), and the associated licensing brands ("Assets") owned by C.D.K Software Limited (CDK), on the following key terms: 1. on completion of the Acquisition ("Completion"), TBH must issue to Dynamic IT Group Pty Ltd (or its nominee) 10m unquoted options over TBH shares, exercisable at $0.20 per option within 2 years from the date of issue. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1; 2. is conditional on the satisfaction or waiver of the following conditions precedent ("CPs"): a. TBH carrying out and completing due diligence in respect of DynamicOdds and the Assets and being satisfied in its sole discretion as to results of the due diligence; b. to the extent such approvals are required, TBH shareholders resolving to approve the Acquisition contemplated under this HOA, including any capital raising TBH considers necessary to complete the Acquisition; and c. negotiation and execution of final documentation required to give effect to the transactions contemplated under the Heads of Agreement, including without limitation, a share and asset sale agreement and a services agreement for the provision of management and related services by the shareholders of DynamicOdds ("DO Shareholders"); 3. on Completion, TBH must pay: a. $1.5m in cash to the DO Shareholders in consideration for the acquisition of the DO Shares; and b. $1m in cash to CDK in consideration for the acquisition of the Assets; 4. Within 12 months after Completion, TBH must: a. pay to CDK $7.5m in cash; or b. issue shares in TBH ("TBH Shares") to the value of $7.5m ("CDK Balance"). If TBH elects to settle the CDK Balance by issuing TBH Shares, CDK may require TBH to pay up to $5.5m of the CDK Balance in cash, with the remainder satisfied by way of issue of TBH Shares. There is currently no agreement to issue TBH Shares to CDK or the DO Shareholders; 5. If TBH fails to discharge the CDK Balance within 12 months of Completion, TBH must transfer the DO Shares and the Assets back to the DO Shareholders and CDK (respectively) and shall not be entitled to any refund of the amounts paid in respect of DO Shares and the Assets to date; 6. If TBH wishes to sell the DO Shares or the Assets before it discharges the CDK Balance, TBH must first offer those assets for sale to the DO Shareholders and CDK (respectively) and, in any event, TBH cannot transfer the DO Shares or the Assets before it discharges the CDK Balance in full; and 7. The Heads of Agreement shall terminate on 31 July 2018 or upon the prior insolvency of either party. About DynamicOdds DynamicOdds provide a range of free and premium betting related services for punters, racing authorities and bookmakers. The DynamicOdds odds comparison Premium application is used by punters and bookmakers alike in Australia and consumes a range of data sources that include; fixed odds pricing, tote and exchange prices, race day control information, form, statistics and an extensive runner pricing database. The application allows punters and bookmakers to place bets with other integrated licensed bookmakers from the one interface. A free version of the site also exists that includes price comparisons for both racing and sports betting. DynamicOdds also powers and provides the official starting price ("SP") for racing authorities such as Racing Victoria and Racing NSW and Racing Queensland. Earn-Out payment for Mad Bookie acquisition Further to the announcement dated 13 April 2017 ("MB Announcement"), the Company and Mad Bookie Pty Ltd ("Mad Bookie") have finalized the Purchase Price (as defined in the MB Announcement) payable by the Company for the acquisition of the assets of Mad Bookie ("MB Assets"). It has been determined that the Purchase Price for the MB Assets is $1,155,700, however, $150,000 in payments have already been made towards the Purchase Price. In accordance with the terms of the agreement to acquire the MB Assets, the Company is required to pay the balance of $1,005,700 in cash, or a combination of cash and scrip, on or before June 29, 2018. TopBetta Pty Ltd and Mad Bookie sale update As announced to the market on the 18th April 2018 ("PlayUp Announcement"), TBH intends to the sell the TopBetta and Mad Bookie B2C businesses to blockchain enabled global fantasy sports and online sports betting company, PlayUp Limited ("PlayUp"). Subject to shareholder approval at the Company's General Meeting called for the 18th June 2018 and the satisfaction or waiver of other conditions precedent, TBH will receive $6M (plus GST if applicable) ("Sale") as well as earning a 20% revenue share from both the TopBetta and Mad Bookie brands for a 24 month period under associated software licence and services agreements ("Licensing and Services Agreements"). Further to the announcement released on 4 June 2018, the Company advises that the ASX has not granted the waiver of ASX Listing Rule 11.4 in relation to the Sale and, accordingly, the Company will be seeking shareholder approval of Resolution 1 (amongst others) at the General Meeting to be held on 18 June 2018 ("General Meeting"). Further details are set out in the Notice of General Meeting dated 15 May 2018. Should shareholders approve Resolution 1 at the General Meeting, PlayUp will be required to pay the $3m deposit to TBH by 25th June 2018. The deposit will be only be refundable if TBH does not satisfy or waive each of the conditions precedent (as detailed in the PlayUp Announcement) on or before 31 July 2018. The Licensing and Services Agreements are in the final stages of negotiation and, accordingly, it is expected that all conditions precedent will be satisfied or waived on or around 18th June 2018 (subject to shareholder approval under ASX Listing Rule 11.4 at the General Meeting) and, accordingly, completion is expected to occur, and the final additional payment of $3m will be due and payable to TBH, on or around 25 June 2018. Corporate Advisor Appointed Sydney-based stockbroking firm Red Leaf Securities Pty Ltd ("Red Leaf") has been appointed as Corporate Advisor to assist the Company as it focusses on executing its wholesale business strategy. Red Leaf is a boutique broker that invests on behalf of high net worth clients and fund managers. The brokerage firm specialises in Australian equities, with a focus on undervalued small cap companies, and corporate transactions. Red Leaf shall receive a payment of $10,000/month for the duration of the 12-month term of the engagement ("Term"). The Term may be terminated by TBH by giving 2 weeks' notice. Within 15 business days after Red Leaf first provides its services to TBH, TBH must issue to Red Leaf 2.5M unquoted options, expiring on 7 June 2020 ("Options") on the following terms: 1. 500,000 Options will be exercisable at $0.20 without any vesting conditions; 2. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.30 and will vest on 7 September 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 3. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.40 and will vest on 7 December 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 4. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.50 and will vest on 7 March 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; and 5. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.60 and will vest on 7 June 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1. About Topbetta Holdings Ltd TopBetta Holdings Limited ( ASX:TBH) is an ASX-listed holding company and a global provider of online wagering products and services to both wholesale and retail markets through its various wholly owned subsidiaries. TopBetta Pty Ltd operates a retail wagering business, offering consumers wagering, fantasy tournament and content products and services. Global Tote Australia Pty Ltd conducts TBH's Wholesale Business, which includes operating and licensing its wholesale tote product which enables licensed wagering operators, including corporate bookmakers and tote operators from all over the world, to participate in global pools. The Wholesale Business is conducted under a B2B licence granted by the UK Gambling Commission to Global Tote Limited, a company incorporated in Alderney, UK. *********************** ASX:TBH is 10c at present, has been 50c in the past year. The exercise price on these options are in expectation of very aggressive price increases over a short time frame, especially for Red Leaf the broker for the deal 1. on completion of the Acquisition ("Completion"), TBH must issue to Dynamic IT Group Pty Ltd (or its nominee) 10m unquoted options over TBH shares, exercisable at $0.20 per option within 2 years from the date of issue. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1; Red Leaf shall receive a payment of $10,000/month for the duration of the 12-month term of the engagement ("Term"). The Term may be terminated by TBH by giving 2 weeks' notice. Within 15 business days after Red Leaf first provides its services to TBH, TBH must issue to Red Leaf 2.5M unquoted options, expiring on 7 June 2020 ("Options") on the following terms: 1. 500,000 Options will be exercisable at $0.20 without any vesting conditions; 2. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.30 and will vest on 7 September 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 3. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.40 and will vest on 7 December 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 4. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.50 and will vest on 7 March 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; and 5. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.60 and will vest on 7 June 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From essbee at internode.on.net Wed Jun 20 14:15:08 2018 From: essbee at internode.on.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 14:15:08 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <682254a8-a1c6-5502-3161-19cec642c8c7@internode.on.net> Why would you bother trying to do time for a jumps race? Would it not be an exercise in futility? Times are just one factor of zilions, and doubt they would be of much use in a jumps race. In brief....if your standard was perhaps 67.5 for 1200 at Somewheresville and your expected class was maybe 99% of your standard so your class figure in that case is going to be 90. If they were to run the race in 68.5 then the raw speed will be ~85.4 rather than the expected 90 90-85.4 would have the track running 4.6 slow. When you originally figured all the times and classes you would have normalised then so that zero is neutral(neither fast or slow track). Of course that difference does not necessarily mean the track was that slow....it could have been won by a horse better/worse than average for that class, or the pace could have had some effect, or, or or. But you would have code to try and account for that stuff, and a meeting is not just one race, so you might have 8 races, and? did the above for all of them and the adjustments for various extraneous things. You could find the deviations between expected and actual for the meeting and the smaller the deviation, then likely the more accurate. Anyway, just assuming for this meet the track was measured as slow by 4.6 Another day it may be fast by some amount(-ve) and then another, might tell you it was slow by 30, 40, 50, whatever. Overall I am confident you get a better picture of the going than the official. Against that though, it's only AFTER the races that you know all this, although you do it as the meet progresses to give you an idea. But at the end of the day, it's just one thing, although those that do the statistical models and have numbers that are done as well as possible, usually have the time stuff as the most predictive of all form factors. I can't vouch for that, as I don't do the modelling, but that's what they tell me. SteveB On 20/06/2018 12:27 PM, Race Stats wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > I know you?re the time guru, but your post has me scratching my head. > > How will your standards tell you the going, when it might be a number > of Group 1 and Maiden races? > > Or in Melbourne most Group 1 races are run in Spring when the tracks > are better going, and Open races are run all year round. > > Then there?s 3200m hurdles and steeples etc, obviously the time is > going to be quite different to all flat races over 3200m, so the > hurdles and steeples will seem Heavy 10 and the flat races will seem > Firm 2?..just putting it out there, as that?s just an example of how > deriving track condition from time is error prone. > > Lindsay. > > *From:*Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve > *Sent:* Wednesday, 20 June 2018 9:20 AM > *To:* racing at ausrace.com > *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > No you don't need a time for each going. > If you dissected the times that Tony put up as an example, you would > see that they are all over the place relatively. > Most people that do it that way get, the same inconsistencies, > And remember that word....relatively.....as it's the most important > thing to consider when doing time > One time for each distance at each track is all you need. > That way your standards will tell you the going, probably more > accurately than the official which is after all just an opinion of > whoever is doing whichever track. > > Good luck though as there is so many inaccurate times, wrong > distances, and three zillion ways of giving the section times. > > SteveB > > On 19/06/2018 11:41 PM, Race Stats wrote: > > Hi Nick, > > Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d > give you a little bit of extra information. > > Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > > If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > > Often you will find that track record times are often on many > races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than > the rating. > > Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > > Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final > sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this will > give you the pace time. > > You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, > you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > > Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast > last sectional, then pace time. > > You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > > You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all > or most races are above that par. > > Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race > day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that > period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a > change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that are not > correct. > > Lindsay. > > *From:*Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] *On Behalf Of > *norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > *Sent:* Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to > come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, > you'll be my first port of call. > > Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but > his stats must be outdated by now. > > For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which > makes replying damned confusing. > > > > > > Mailtrack > > > > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > > 18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > wrote: > > G'day Mike, > > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but > had forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > Mailtrack > > > > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > > 18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > wrote: > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? ?1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > ) > ? ?2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > ) > ? ?3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > ? ?4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > " > > > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > [image: Mailtrack] > > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > > 17/06/18, > 17:33:07 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > From: > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an > email?. > > > > ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for > providing the par times. Steven is back in Australia from > Hong Kong and is touring Australia if anyone would like to > catch up with him (he is happy to talk about Bet Selector, > PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else racing related). Venues > and dates are listed below but please note Steven has a > new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is still > the same viz? > stavros at wn.com.au > ? > > > > Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > Mike. > > > > > > From: Racing > On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > From: "L.B.Loveday" > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: > <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Nick, > > > > "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be > calculated in various ways, times are affected by track > condition (not only on the day, but by permanent upgrades > such as at Gawler), rail positioning, wind direction, > riding tactics, in-race mishaps such as a fall, the class > of horses, whether there are zero, one, two? "natural" > leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight conditions?? > > > > So I never consider them, but I do have a database of > every Australian race for the past 20+ years, including: > > > > Date, > > Course, > > Distance, > > Class, > > Limit Weight, > > Weight carried by placegetters, > > Condition, > > No of starters, > > Prizemoney, > > and of course Time > > > > You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and > I'll write a program and send you the results; otherwise > you are just relying on someone else's methodology, almost > certainly without knowing the basis of his determinations. > > > > LBL > > > > From: Racing > On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > From: "Tony Moffat" > > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? > it was big > > Is this the type of info you need? > > Who does this? > > Cheers > > Tony > > > > Ball a rat > > 900 (firm) 51.8 > > 900 (good) 52.5 > > 900 (soft) 53.4 > > 900 (heavy) 54.6 > > 1000 (firm) 56.5 > > 1000 (good) 57.9 > > 1000 (soft) 59.1 > > 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > 1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > 1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > 1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > 1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > 1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > 2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > 2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > ] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > ************************************* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From essbee at internode.on.net Wed Jun 20 15:07:21 2018 From: essbee at internode.on.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 15:07:21 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Lindsay, I did a reply but it has never made it on to the list. It is in the archives though. Maybe I should have trimmed it. Steve On 20/06/2018 12:27 PM, Race Stats wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > I know you?re the time guru, but your post has me scratching my head. > > How will your standards tell you the going, when it might be a number > of Group 1 and Maiden races? > > Or in Melbourne most Group 1 races are run in Spring when the tracks > are better going, and Open races are run all year round. > > Then there?s 3200m hurdles and steeples etc, obviously the time is > going to be quite different to all flat races over 3200m, so the > hurdles and steeples will seem Heavy 10 and the flat races will seem > Firm 2?..just putting it out there, as that?s just an example of how > deriving track condition from time is error prone. > > Lindsay. > > *From:*Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve > *Sent:* Wednesday, 20 June 2018 9:20 AM > *To:* racing at ausrace.com > *Subject:* Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > No you don't need a time for each going. > If you dissected the times that Tony put up as an example, you would > see that they are all over the place relatively. > Most people that do it that way get, the same inconsistencies, > And remember that word....relatively.....as it's the most important > thing to consider when doing time > One time for each distance at each track is all you need. > That way your standards will tell you the going, probably more > accurately than the official which is after all just an opinion of > whoever is doing whichever track. > > Good luck though as there is so many inaccurate times, wrong > distances, and three zillion ways of giving the section times. > > SteveB > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From RaceStats at hotmail.com Wed Jun 20 15:31:47 2018 From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:31:47 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Test Message-ID: Test, seems my previous email didn?t get through. From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2018 10:04 AM To: racing at ausrace.com Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 For somebody starting out on times, I would not recommend it! The code I have is 1400 lines long and has evolved over many years. I doubt anybody does it my way, expect for the Woods mob that I helped with it a good few years ago. Finding the standard times would be a huge task if you did not know how to do it. Just finding the averages of each class, on each going, at each track, for instance, is just going to waste your time, AND likely, not worth two bob. I can find the times and class figures for however many tracks in a couple of minutes these days, but it's complex. When momu came to me for help, they had been trying for 6 months and getting nowhere. Iteration where the meetings at each track are treated individually, instead of lumping the data from all meeting at each track together That way you get rid of going problems where the track one day will run different to another.....well you won't get rid of those problems but will lessen the effect of them. Then it's a process of trial and error. Guess.....test.....adjust.....test....adjust...test...until the error is so small it no longer exists SteveB On 20/06/2018 9:44 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote: [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/e1b6a1cbfc25b88d4d250072128e264d89438e54.png?u=1035275]Ok thanks Steve. I think I've got that. I guess any time has to be measured against Open class and adjusted from the relative class figure so might as well just use the one figure from the off. [Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 20/06/18, 09:42:33 On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:30 AM > wrote: Send Racing mailing list submissions to racing at ausrace.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to racing-request at ausrace.com You can reach the person managing the list at racing-owner at ausrace.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 (Steve) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:28:10 +1000 From: Steve > To: racing at ausrace.com Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 Message-ID: <5c49c6e7-fffb-d615-ad77-bdfeb896215d at internode.on.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Ditto Nick If you understand time stuff, then.... Your class figure should be some estimation of central tendency(average/median/whatever) of the speeds. The speed should be the individual. They are both the same thing...one the overall, one the average(or whatever) and that gives you your measuring stick(expectation) Thus your class figure should also just be a percentage of your standard time. For instance G1 at Flemington might be the equivalent of your standard. A low standard benchmark race might be only 98% of your standard. Thus the G1 will be 100 The low one will be 80....or 20 metres per 1000 slower on average SteveB On 20/06/2018 8:58 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote: > Interesting Lindsay. What about par times for individual classes? And > then somehow relating that to open par times? Does that make sense. > Got to reply to all on one post, such is the manner it comes through. > Mike, your 81 year old brain is obviously in better shape than my 60 > year old one. > And as for the missing posts re Stradbroke, Andrew, I didn't get any > of them. Not sure what the hell is going on the list but receiving > posts is now a very rare thing. > > > > Mailtrack > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > > 20/06/18, 08:54:57 > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM > >> wrote: > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? ?1. Par Times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au >) > ? ?2. Test (Andrew Child) > ? ?3. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 (Race Stats) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:05:10 +1000 > From: >> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > >> > Subject: [AusRace] Par Times > Message-ID: <000601d40758$cf3c0280$6db40780$@tpg.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Cannot be an ?age thing? or my 81yo brain would have long > forgotten it too. > > > > Mike. > > > > G'day Mike, > > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:45:14 +1000 > From: Andrew Child > >> > To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > >> > Subject: [AusRace] Test > Message-ID: > >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I seem to be missing stuff, according to the June archive - Len's > post, > and four of Tony's re Stradbroke! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:41:12 +0000 > From: Race Stats > >> > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > >> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ? > > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Nick, > Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d > give you a little bit of extra information. > Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > Often you will find that track record times are often on many > races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than > the rating. > Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final > sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this will > give you the pace time. > You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just Soft, > you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast > last sectional, then pace time. > You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong when all > or most races are above that par. > Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on race > day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that > period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a > change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that are not > correct. > Lindsay. > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > >] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275] > > Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the concept to > come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I do, > you'll be my first port of call. > Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's ago but > his stats must be outdated by now. > For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated which > makes replying damned confusing. > > > > [Mailtrack] > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > 18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > >> > > > > >>> wrote: > [https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275] > G'day Mike, > ? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but had > forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > [Mailtrack] > > Sender notified by > Mailtrack > 18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > > > >>> wrote: > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > > >> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > >> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > >> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? ?1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > >>) > ? ?2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > > > >>) > ? ?3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > ? ?4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > >>" > > > > >>> > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ? > > > > >>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > [image: Mailtrack] > > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > > 17/06/18, > 17:33:07 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > From: > > > >>> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > >>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Norsaint > > > > Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > ?Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing > the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and is > touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him (he is > happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or anything else > racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but please note > Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email is > still the same viz > > > >>> stavros at wn.com.au > > > >>? > > > > Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > Mike. > > > > > > From: Racing > > > >>> On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > From: "L.B.Loveday" > > > >>> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > >>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Nick, > > > > "Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be calculated in > various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only on > the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail > positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps such > as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, two? > "natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight > conditions?? > > > > So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every > Australian race for the past 20+ years,? including: > > > > Date, > > Course, > > Distance, > > Class, > > Limit Weight, > > Weight carried by placegetters, > > Condition, > > No of starters, > > Prizemoney, > > and of course Time > > > > You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll > write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are just > relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without > knowing the basis of his determinations. > > > > LBL > > > > From: Racing > > > >>> On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > From: "Tony Moffat" > > > >>> > To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > >>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? it was big > > Is this the type of info you need? > > Who does this? > > Cheers > > Tony > > > > Ball a rat > > 900 (firm) 51.8 > > 900 (good) 52.5 > > 900 (soft) 53.4 > > 900 (heavy) 54.6 > > 1000 (firm) 56.5 > > 1000 (good) 57.9 > > 1000 (soft) 59.1 > > 1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > 1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > 1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > 1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > 1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > 1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > 1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > 1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > 1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > 1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > 1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > 1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > 1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > 1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > 1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > 1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > 1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > 1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > 1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > 1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > 1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > 2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > 2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > 2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > 2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > 2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > 2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > 2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > 2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > > >>] On Behalf Of > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > >> > Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >>> > Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > ? > > > > Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > ? > > Sender notified by > ? > Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > https://www.avg.com > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > > > >> > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > ************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > ************************************* > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com ------------------------------ End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 ************************************* _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Wed Jun 20 18:07:22 2018 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:07:22 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've got no intention of setting off down that road Steve, I can assure you. Just looking to wing it on someone else's work, that's all! Actually the more I think about it, the more sense it would make to study sectional pars, given the final time/speed rating is so dependent on how a race is run. Anyone know ..............? [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 20/06/18, 17:43:37 On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 10:07 AM wrote: > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > racing at ausrace.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > racing-request at ausrace.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 (Steve) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 10:03:56 +1000 > From: Steve > To: racing at ausrace.com > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > For somebody starting out on times, I would not recommend it! > The code I have is 1400 lines long and has evolved over many years. > > I doubt anybody does it my way, expect for the Woods mob that I helped > with it a good few years ago. > Finding the standard times would be a huge task if you did not know how > to do it. > Just finding the averages of each class, on each going, at each track, > for instance, is just going to waste your time, AND likely, not worth > two bob. > > I can find the times and class figures for however many tracks in a > couple of minutes these days, but it's complex. > When momu came to me for help, they had been trying for 6 months and > getting nowhere. > > Iteration where the meetings at each track are treated individually, > instead of lumping the data from all meeting at each track together > That way you get rid of going problems where the track one day will run > different to another.....well you won't get rid of those problems but > will lessen the effect of them. > Then it's a process of trial and error. > Guess.....test.....adjust.....test....adjust...test...until the error is > so small it no longer exists > > SteveB > > On 20/06/2018 9:44 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com wrote: > > Ok thanks Steve. I think I've got that. I guess any time has to be > > measured against Open class and adjusted from the relative class > > figure so might as well just use the one figure from the off. > > > > > > > > > > Mailtrack > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > > > Sender notified by > > Mailtrack > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5&> > > > 20/06/18, 09:42:33 > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:30 AM > > wrote: > > > > Send Racing mailing list submissions to > > racing at ausrace.com > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > ? ?1. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 (Steve) > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 09:28:10 +1000 > > From: Steve >> > > To: racing at ausrace.com > > Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > > Message-ID: <5c49c6e7-fffb-d615-ad77-bdfeb896215d at internode.on.net > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > > > Ditto Nick > > If you understand time stuff, then.... > > Your class figure should be some estimation of central > > tendency(average/median/whatever) of the speeds. > > The speed should be the individual. > > They are both the same thing...one the overall, one the average(or > > whatever) and that gives you your measuring stick(expectation) > > Thus your class figure should also just be a percentage of your > > standard > > time. > > For instance G1 at Flemington might be the equivalent of your > > standard. > > A low standard benchmark race might be only 98% of your standard. > > Thus the G1 will be 100 > > The low one will be 80....or 20 metres per 1000 slower on average > > SteveB > > > > > > On 20/06/2018 8:58 AM, norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > wrote: > > > Interesting Lindsay. What about par times for individual > > classes? And > > > then somehow relating that to open par times? Does that make sense. > > > Got to reply to all on one post, such is the manner it comes > > through. > > > Mike, your 81 year old brain is obviously in better shape than > > my 60 > > > year old one. > > > And as for the missing posts re Stradbroke, Andrew, I didn't get > > any > > > of them. Not sure what the hell is going on the list but receiving > > > posts is now a very rare thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mailtrack > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > >? ? ? ?Sender notified by > > > Mailtrack > > > > > < > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > > 20/06/18, 08:54:57 > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 11:42 PM > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > >? ? ?Send Racing mailing list submissions to > > > racing at ausrace.com > > > > > > > > >? ? ?To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > >? ? ?or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?You can reach the person managing the list at > > > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > > > > > > > >? ? ?When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > specific > > >? ? ?than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Today's Topics: > > > > > >? ? ?? ?1. Par Times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > > > >) > > >? ? ?? ?2. Test (Andrew Child) > > >? ? ?? ?3. Re: Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 (Race Stats) > > > > > > > > > > > > ?---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >? ? ?Message: 1 > > >? ? ?Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:05:10 +1000 > > >? ? ?From: > > >> > > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > >? ? ?>> > > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par Times > > >? ? ?Message-ID: <000601d40758$cf3c0280$6db40780$@tpg.com.au > > > > >? ? ?> > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > >? ? ?Norsaint > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Cannot be an ?age thing? or my 81yo brain would have long > > >? ? ?forgotten it too. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?G'day Mike, > > > > > >? ? ?? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but > had > > >? ? ?forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >? ? ?URL: > > >? ? > > ?< > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180619/b8ae59b2/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?Message: 2 > > >? ? ?Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:45:14 +1000 > > >? ? ?From: Andrew Child > > > >? ? ?>> > > >? ? ?To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > > > >? ? ?>> > > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Test > > >? ? ?Message-ID: > > > >? ? ? > >> > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > > > > >? ? ?I seem to be missing stuff, according to the June archive - > > Len's > > >? ? ?post, > > >? ? ?and four of Tony's re Stradbroke! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?Message: 3 > > >? ? ?Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:41:12 +0000 > > >? ? ?From: Race Stats > > > >? ? ?>> > > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >? ? ?>> > > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > >? ? ?Message-ID: > > >? ? ?? ? ? ? > > >? ? > > ?< > MEAPR01MB32057578EF89B5FB7E5005B1BB700 at MEAPR01MB3205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com > > MEAPR01MB32057578EF89B5FB7E5005B1BB700 at MEAPR01MB3205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com > > > > >? ? > > ? MEAPR01MB32057578EF89B5FB7E5005B1BB700 at MEAPR01MB3205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com > > MEAPR01MB32057578EF89B5FB7E5005B1BB700 at MEAPR01MB3205.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com > >>> > > > > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > >? ? ?Hi Nick, > > >? ? ?Regarding Len?s suggestions regarding par times, I thought I?d > > >? ? ?give you a little bit of extra information. > > >? ? ?Par times by themselves are pretty nebulous as Len suggests. > > >? ? ?If you?re familiar with Excel, here is my recommendation. > > >? ? ?Often you will find that track record times are often on many > > >? ? ?races one day at a venue, so obviously the track is faster than > > >? ? ?the rating. > > >? ? ?Forget Class records, they mean very little overall. > > >? ? ?Take the race times and dissect them into overall time, final > > >? ? ?sectional time and then race time minus sectional time, this > > will > > >? ? ?give you the pace time. > > >? ? ?You MUST have a par time for every going condition not just > > Soft, > > >? ? ?you need Soft5, Soft6, Soft7. > > >? ? ?Look at the top horses that won with fast race time, then fast > > >? ? ?last sectional, then pace time. > > >? ? ?You?ll soon see the impact of what is useful and what is not. > > >? ? ?You?ll also see where the track rating is obviously wrong > > when all > > >? ? ?or most races are above that par. > > >? ? ?Course manager must lodge the track going prior to 6.50am on > > race > > >? ? ?day, they cannot change the track rating for the day after that > > >? ? ?period, only the Stewards or Jockeys can suggest to Stewards a > > >? ? ?change in track rating. Ergo, there are many ratings that > > are not > > >? ? ?correct. > > >? ? ?Lindsay. > > > > > >? ? ?From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > > > >? ? ? > >] On Behalf Of > > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Sent: Monday, 18 June 2018 9:33 PM > > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > > > > >? ? > > ?[ > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/9657c34d5b2928e9bab33187cf9885d7e3b5e49d.png?u=1035275 > ] > > > > > >? ? ?Ok thanks Len. Not sure if I'm au fait enough with the > > concept to > > >? ? ?come up with anything so sophisticated as an algorithm. If I > do, > > >? ? ?you'll be my first port of call. > > >? ? ?Did fiddle around with ideas by Gavin Haynes a few year's > > ago but > > >? ? ?his stats must be outdated by now. > > >? ? ?For some reason all the replies have come through aggregated > > which > > >? ? ?makes replying damned confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > ?[Mailtrack]< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > > >? ? > > ?Mailtrack< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > >? ? ?18/06/18, 21:27:22 > > > > > > > > >? ? ?On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:26 PM norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >> > > >? ? ? > > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>> wrote: > > >? ? > > ?[ > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/f80b1de6fd98147d79908191acc60d56e7480a95.png?u=1035275 > ] > > >? ? ?G'day Mike, > > >? ? ?? ? ? ? Thanks for the suggestion. I got that email too? but > had > > >? ? ?forgotten all about it. Must be an age thing. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > ?[Mailtrack]< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > > >? ? > > ?Mailtrack< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > >? ? ?18/06/18, 21:24:56 > > > > > > > > >? ? ?On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:59 PM > > > >? ? ? > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>> wrote: > > >? ? ?Send Racing mailing list submissions to > > > racing at ausrace.com > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>> > > > > > >? ? ?To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > >? ? ?or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > >? ? ? > > racing-request at ausrace.com > > > > >? ? ? > >> > > > > > >? ? ?You can reach the person managing the list at > > > racing-owner at ausrace.com > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ? > >> > > > > > >? ? ?When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > specific > > >? ? ?than "Re: Contents of Racing digest..." > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Today's Topics: > > > > > >? ? ?? ?1. Par times (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>) > > >? ? ?? ?2. Re: Par times (mikemcbain at tpg.com.au > > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ? >>>) > > >? ? ?? ?3. Re: Par times (L.B.Loveday) > > >? ? ?? ?4. Re: Par times (Tony Moffat) > > > > > > > > > > > > ?---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >? ? ?Message: 1 > > >? ? ?Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 17:34:08 +1000 > > >? ? ?From: "norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>" > > >? ? ? > > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>> > > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > >? ? ?Message-ID: > > >? ? ?? ? ? ? > > >? ? > > ? > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > >? ? ?[image: Mailtrack] > > >? ? > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > >? ? ?Sender > > >? ? ?notified by > > >? ? ?Mailtrack > > >? ? > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > >? ? ?17/06/18, > > >? ? ?17:33:07 > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >? ? ?URL: > > >? ? > > ?< > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180617/54cc8783/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?Message: 2 > > >? ? ?Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:03:10 +1000 > > >? ? ?From: > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ? >>>> > > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > > >? ? ?Message-ID: <001f01d406a0$20e59d80$62b0d880$@tpg.com.au > > > > >? ? ?> > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > >? ? ?Norsaint > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Neale Yardley recently made the following comment in an email?. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ??Again my thanks go to Steven Angelides from PPFA for providing > > >? ? ?the par times. Steven is back in Australia from Hong Kong and > is > > >? ? ?touring Australia if anyone would like to catch up with him > > (he is > > >? ? ?happy to talk about Bet Selector, PPFA, Hong Kong or > > anything else > > >? ? ?racing related). Venues and dates are listed below but > > please note > > >? ? ?Steven has a new mobile number which is 0413164550. His email > is > > >? ? ?still the same viz > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > stavros at wn.com.au > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>? > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Might be worth your while asking Steven? > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Mike. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?From: Racing > > > >? ? ? > > racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>> On Behalf Of > > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >> > > >? ? ?Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 17:34 > > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > > >? ? > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > ??< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > > >? ? > > ??< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > >? ? ?Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >? ? ?URL: > > >? ? > > ?< > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/4acfb28d/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?Message: 3 > > >? ? ?Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:49:07 +1000 > > >? ? ?From: "L.B.Loveday" > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ? > >>> > > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > > >? ? ?Message-ID: <004701d406a6$8ec2dce0$ac4896a0$@ozemail.com.au > > > > >? ? ?> > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > >? ? ?Nick, > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?"Par times" is, to me, a nebulous term - they can be > > calculated in > > >? ? ?various ways, times are affected by track condition (not only > on > > >? ? ?the day, but by permanent upgrades such as at Gawler), rail > > >? ? ?positioning, wind direction, riding tactics, in-race mishaps > > such > > >? ? ?as a fall, the class of horses, whether there are zero, one, > > two? > > >? ? ?"natural" leaders and whether they vie for the lead, weight > > >? ? ?conditions?? > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?So I never consider them, but I do have a database of every > > >? ? ?Australian race for the past 20+ years,? including: > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Date, > > > > > >? ? ?Course, > > > > > >? ? ?Distance, > > > > > >? ? ?Class, > > > > > >? ? ?Limit Weight, > > > > > >? ? ?Weight carried by placegetters, > > > > > >? ? ?Condition, > > > > > >? ? ?No of starters, > > > > > >? ? ?Prizemoney, > > > > > >? ? ?and of course Time > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?You determine an algorithm for calculating par times and I'll > > >? ? ?write a program and send you the results; otherwise you are > just > > >? ? ?relying on someone else's methodology, almost certainly without > > >? ? ?knowing the basis of his determinations. > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?LBL > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?From: Racing > > > >? ? ? > > racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>> On Behalf Of > > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >> > > >? ? ?Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2018 5:34 PM > > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > > >? ? > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > ??< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > > >? ? > > ??< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > >? ? ?Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >? ? ?URL: > > >? ? > > ?< > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/a0f92a71/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?Message: 4 > > >? ? ?Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 18:58:56 +0800 > > >? ? ?From: "Tony Moffat" > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ? > >>> > > >? ? ?To: "'AusRace Racing Discussion List'" > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Subject: Re: [AusRace] Par times > > >? ? ?Message-ID: <000001d406f3$5b558d60$1200a820$@bigpond.com > > > > >? ? ?> > > >? ? ?Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > >? ? ?Saintly ? I don?t know if the other mail made it through ? > > it was big > > > > > >? ? ?Is this the type of info you need? > > > > > >? ? ?Who does this? > > > > > >? ? ?Cheers > > > > > >? ? ?Tony > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Ball a rat > > > > > >? ? ?900 (firm) 51.8 > > > > > >? ? ?900 (good) 52.5 > > > > > >? ? ?900 (soft) 53.4 > > > > > >? ? ?900 (heavy) 54.6 > > > > > >? ? ?1000 (firm) 56.5 > > > > > >? ? ?1000 (good) 57.9 > > > > > >? ? ?1000 (soft) 59.1 > > > > > >? ? ?1000 (heavy) 1.0.7 > > > > > >? ? ?1100 (firm) 1.2.4 > > > > > >? ? ?1100 (good) 1.3.9 > > > > > >? ? ?1100 (soft) 1.5.7 > > > > > >? ? ?1100 (heavy) 1.7.3 > > > > > >? ? ?1200 (firm) 1.9.1 > > > > > >? ? ?1200 (good) 1.10.3 > > > > > >? ? ?1200 (soft) 1.12.0 > > > > > >? ? ?1200 (heavy) 1.13.1 > > > > > >? ? ?1400 (firm) 1.23.2 > > > > > >? ? ?1400 (good) 1.24.5 > > > > > >? ? ?1400 (soft) 1.26.3 > > > > > >? ? ?1400 (heavy) 1.28.2 > > > > > >? ? ?1500 (firm) 1.31.3 > > > > > >? ? ?1500 (good) 1.32.6 > > > > > >? ? ?1500 (soft) 1.34.3 > > > > > >? ? ?1500 (heavy) 1.36.5 > > > > > >? ? ?1600 (firm) 1.37.1 > > > > > >? ? ?1600 (good) 1.37.8 > > > > > >? ? ?1600 (soft) 1.40.0 > > > > > >? ? ?1600 (heavy) 1.42.5 > > > > > >? ? ?2000 (firm) 2.3.8 > > > > > >? ? ?2000 (good) 2.6.1 > > > > > >? ? ?2000 (soft) 2.7.7 > > > > > >? ? ?2000 (heavy) 2.10.9 > > > > > >? ? ?2200 (firm) 2.14.8 > > > > > >? ? ?2200 (good) 2.17.7 > > > > > >? ? ?2200 (soft) 2.20.6 > > > > > >? ? ?2200 (heavy) 2.22.4 > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > > > >? ? ? > > racing-bounces at ausrace.com > > > > >? ? ? > >>] On Behalf Of > > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > >? ? ? > > norsaintpublishing at gmail.com > > > > >? ? ? > >> > > >? ? ?Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2018 3:34 PM > > >? ? ?To: AusRace Racing Discussion List > > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>>> > > >? ? ?Subject: [AusRace] Par times > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > > >? ? > > ?< > https://mailtrack.io/trace/mail/01784b0f304474dd0bea5726003865a7ac7f8307.png?u=1035275 > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?Does anyone know how or where to get them for Aust courses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > ??< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > > > > >? ? ?Sender notified by > > >? ? > > ??< > https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=signaturevirality5& > > > > >? ? ?Mailtrack 17/06/18, 17:33:07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ?--- > > >? ? ?This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > > https://www.avg.com > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >? ? ?URL: > > >? ? > > ?< > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180618/60a93de3/attachment.html > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?Subject: Digest Footer > > > > > >? ? ?_______________________________________________ > > >? ? ?Racing mailing list > > > Racing at ausrace.com > > >? ? ? > > > > > >? ? ?>> > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 > > >? ? ?************************************* > > >? ? ?-------------- next part -------------- > > >? ? ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >? ? ?URL: > > >? ? > > ?< > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180619/a0fc3ffa/attachment.html > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?Subject: Digest Footer > > > > > >? ? ?_______________________________________________ > > >? ? ?Racing mailing list > > > Racing at ausrace.com > > > > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > > > >? ? ?------------------------------ > > > > > >? ? ?End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 > > >? ? ?************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Racing mailing list > > > Racing at ausrace.com > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180620/a8f0f8c4/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 8 > > ************************************* > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Racing mailing list > > Racing at ausrace.com > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/attachments/20180620/0f2e8d87/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 10 > ************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From essbee at internode.on.net Wed Jun 20 19:20:19 2018 From: essbee at internode.on.net (Steve) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 19:20:19 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] Racing Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Norsaint..... I've got no intention of setting off down that road Steve, I can assure you. Just looking to wing it on someone else's work, that's all! Actually the more I think about it, the more sense it would make to study sectional pars, given the final time/speed rating is so dependent on how a race is run. Anyone know ..............? Me....... The list has not been working too good today, as they are not getting through. As regards your post Nick, I don't see how you can get any value out of sections, without also understanding the merit of the overall. One is not much good without the other, type of thing. That said, most races are won by the horse that paces the race the most efficiently, or the best horse in the race(if not paced well but just too good). The problem with that, is that the 'most efficient', is dependant on what the leaders do, and how the race is run. So what is great here, can be bad there. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sat Jun 23 17:17:27 2018 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 17:17:27 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] This does not look helpful to punters Message-ID: <006f01d40ac2$40be3f10$c23abd30$@ozemail.com.au> TopBetta are direct competitors with the other bookmakers also offering their wares on Dynamic Odds. With TopBetta running DO, they will have access to the bets placed with other bookmakers - from whom, how much, accepted?, rejected?, partially accepted?, the effect of the bets on the prices offered, which punters to immediately restrict if they try to open a TopBetta account?. I think the operation is heading for trouble. From: L.B.Loveday Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2018 1:25 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: This does not look helpful to punters "TBH continues to execute on its wholesale business strategy with a range of initiatives" Expands Wholesale Offering by Acquiring 100% of World-Class Data Feed Company Sydney, June 14, 2018 AEST (ABN Newswire) - TopBetta Holdings Limited ( ASX:TBH) ("TBH" or the "Company") is pleased to announce that it has entered into a binding, conditional heads of agreement ("Heads of Agreement") to acquire 100% of the shares in data and betting tools company, DynamicOdds Pty Ltd ("DynamicOdds"), and its associated licensing brands ("Assets") (www.dynamicodds.com.au ) ("Acquisition"). The DynamicOdds brand is a provider of wagering data in Australia and currently supplies data feeds to (and delivers data on behalf of) Australia's Principal Racing Authorities as well as a number of Australia's licensed bookmakers and sophisticated punters. The data feeds provided by DynamicOdds are a key component for bookmakers both online and on-track in their fixed odds pricing models. Highlights - TBH enters into a conditional, binding Heads of Agreement to acquire data and betting tools provider, DynamicOdds.com.au - DynamicOdds provides live data solutions to Australia's Principal Racing Authorities - DynamicOdds provides the tools for bookmakers to power their fixed odds products - DynamicOdds acquisition to progress and consolidate TBH's wholesale strategy - TopBetta and MadBookie sale update - Red Leaf Securities appointed as Corporate Advisor TopBetta's CEO, Todd Buckingham commented: "DynamicOdds has developed a reputation as a respected provider of data and betting tools within the Australian racing industry and is a perfect fit for the TBH wholesale business model. "We're excited about the opportunity to continue to develop and enhance the current technology stack that helps punters make bets, and bookmakers take bets. At the same time, we also see a huge opportunity to expand the business into other verticals via partnerships with sporting and racing bodies globally. This acquisition is the perfect complementary business to continue with our Company's growth." DynamicOdds CTO Karl Begg and CEO David Begg commented: "DynamicOdds was established in 2006 as a platform for both punters and industry professionals to analyse and monitor the betting markets for the Australian racing codes. "Since its inception, DynamicOdds has established itself as an integral part of the Australian wagering landscape at both retail and commercial levels. "In August 2016, Racing Victoria commissioned DynamicOdds to provide an 'official price' for Victorian thoroughbred racing. DynamicOdds not only supplies the systems to produce and manage the official price, but also the infrastructure to display the price via on-course display networks. The official price service was quickly adopted by all other state thoroughbred racing authorities and implemented by second quarter 2017. "Combining both the experience and expertise of DynamicOdds, TBH and its subsidiaries, will ensure continued growth as we explore all opportunities within racing and sports markets domestically and into the UK and US markets." Key terms of the Heads of Agreement TBH has agreed to purchase 100% of the shares in DynamicOdds ("DO Shares"), and the associated licensing brands ("Assets") owned by C.D.K Software Limited (CDK), on the following key terms: 1. on completion of the Acquisition ("Completion"), TBH must issue to Dynamic IT Group Pty Ltd (or its nominee) 10m unquoted options over TBH shares, exercisable at $0.20 per option within 2 years from the date of issue. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1; 2. is conditional on the satisfaction or waiver of the following conditions precedent ("CPs"): a. TBH carrying out and completing due diligence in respect of DynamicOdds and the Assets and being satisfied in its sole discretion as to results of the due diligence; b. to the extent such approvals are required, TBH shareholders resolving to approve the Acquisition contemplated under this HOA, including any capital raising TBH considers necessary to complete the Acquisition; and c. negotiation and execution of final documentation required to give effect to the transactions contemplated under the Heads of Agreement, including without limitation, a share and asset sale agreement and a services agreement for the provision of management and related services by the shareholders of DynamicOdds ("DO Shareholders"); 3. on Completion, TBH must pay: a. $1.5m in cash to the DO Shareholders in consideration for the acquisition of the DO Shares; and b. $1m in cash to CDK in consideration for the acquisition of the Assets; 4. Within 12 months after Completion, TBH must: a. pay to CDK $7.5m in cash; or b. issue shares in TBH ("TBH Shares") to the value of $7.5m ("CDK Balance"). If TBH elects to settle the CDK Balance by issuing TBH Shares, CDK may require TBH to pay up to $5.5m of the CDK Balance in cash, with the remainder satisfied by way of issue of TBH Shares. There is currently no agreement to issue TBH Shares to CDK or the DO Shareholders; 5. If TBH fails to discharge the CDK Balance within 12 months of Completion, TBH must transfer the DO Shares and the Assets back to the DO Shareholders and CDK (respectively) and shall not be entitled to any refund of the amounts paid in respect of DO Shares and the Assets to date; 6. If TBH wishes to sell the DO Shares or the Assets before it discharges the CDK Balance, TBH must first offer those assets for sale to the DO Shareholders and CDK (respectively) and, in any event, TBH cannot transfer the DO Shares or the Assets before it discharges the CDK Balance in full; and 7. The Heads of Agreement shall terminate on 31 July 2018 or upon the prior insolvency of either party. About DynamicOdds DynamicOdds provide a range of free and premium betting related services for punters, racing authorities and bookmakers. The DynamicOdds odds comparison Premium application is used by punters and bookmakers alike in Australia and consumes a range of data sources that include; fixed odds pricing, tote and exchange prices, race day control information, form, statistics and an extensive runner pricing database. The application allows punters and bookmakers to place bets with other integrated licensed bookmakers from the one interface. A free version of the site also exists that includes price comparisons for both racing and sports betting. DynamicOdds also powers and provides the official starting price ("SP") for racing authorities such as Racing Victoria and Racing NSW and Racing Queensland. Earn-Out payment for Mad Bookie acquisition Further to the announcement dated 13 April 2017 ("MB Announcement"), the Company and Mad Bookie Pty Ltd ("Mad Bookie") have finalized the Purchase Price (as defined in the MB Announcement) payable by the Company for the acquisition of the assets of Mad Bookie ("MB Assets"). It has been determined that the Purchase Price for the MB Assets is $1,155,700, however, $150,000 in payments have already been made towards the Purchase Price. In accordance with the terms of the agreement to acquire the MB Assets, the Company is required to pay the balance of $1,005,700 in cash, or a combination of cash and scrip, on or before June 29, 2018. TopBetta Pty Ltd and Mad Bookie sale update As announced to the market on the 18th April 2018 ("PlayUp Announcement"), TBH intends to the sell the TopBetta and Mad Bookie B2C businesses to blockchain enabled global fantasy sports and online sports betting company, PlayUp Limited ("PlayUp"). Subject to shareholder approval at the Company's General Meeting called for the 18th June 2018 and the satisfaction or waiver of other conditions precedent, TBH will receive $6M (plus GST if applicable) ("Sale") as well as earning a 20% revenue share from both the TopBetta and Mad Bookie brands for a 24 month period under associated software licence and services agreements ("Licensing and Services Agreements"). Further to the announcement released on 4 June 2018, the Company advises that the ASX has not granted the waiver of ASX Listing Rule 11.4 in relation to the Sale and, accordingly, the Company will be seeking shareholder approval of Resolution 1 (amongst others) at the General Meeting to be held on 18 June 2018 ("General Meeting"). Further details are set out in the Notice of General Meeting dated 15 May 2018. Should shareholders approve Resolution 1 at the General Meeting, PlayUp will be required to pay the $3m deposit to TBH by 25th June 2018. The deposit will be only be refundable if TBH does not satisfy or waive each of the conditions precedent (as detailed in the PlayUp Announcement) on or before 31 July 2018. The Licensing and Services Agreements are in the final stages of negotiation and, accordingly, it is expected that all conditions precedent will be satisfied or waived on or around 18th June 2018 (subject to shareholder approval under ASX Listing Rule 11.4 at the General Meeting) and, accordingly, completion is expected to occur, and the final additional payment of $3m will be due and payable to TBH, on or around 25 June 2018. Corporate Advisor Appointed Sydney-based stockbroking firm Red Leaf Securities Pty Ltd ("Red Leaf") has been appointed as Corporate Advisor to assist the Company as it focusses on executing its wholesale business strategy. Red Leaf is a boutique broker that invests on behalf of high net worth clients and fund managers. The brokerage firm specialises in Australian equities, with a focus on undervalued small cap companies, and corporate transactions. Red Leaf shall receive a payment of $10,000/month for the duration of the 12-month term of the engagement ("Term"). The Term may be terminated by TBH by giving 2 weeks' notice. Within 15 business days after Red Leaf first provides its services to TBH, TBH must issue to Red Leaf 2.5M unquoted options, expiring on 7 June 2020 ("Options") on the following terms: 1. 500,000 Options will be exercisable at $0.20 without any vesting conditions; 2. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.30 and will vest on 7 September 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 3. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.40 and will vest on 7 December 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 4. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.50 and will vest on 7 March 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; and 5. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.60 and will vest on 7 June 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1. About Topbetta Holdings Ltd TopBetta Holdings Limited ( ASX:TBH) is an ASX-listed holding company and a global provider of online wagering products and services to both wholesale and retail markets through its various wholly owned subsidiaries. TopBetta Pty Ltd operates a retail wagering business, offering consumers wagering, fantasy tournament and content products and services. Global Tote Australia Pty Ltd conducts TBH's Wholesale Business, which includes operating and licensing its wholesale tote product which enables licensed wagering operators, including corporate bookmakers and tote operators from all over the world, to participate in global pools. The Wholesale Business is conducted under a B2B licence granted by the UK Gambling Commission to Global Tote Limited, a company incorporated in Alderney, UK. *********************** ASX:TBH is 10c at present, has been 50c in the past year. The exercise price on these options are in expectation of very aggressive price increases over a short time frame, especially for Red Leaf the broker for the deal 1. on completion of the Acquisition ("Completion"), TBH must issue to Dynamic IT Group Pty Ltd (or its nominee) 10m unquoted options over TBH shares, exercisable at $0.20 per option within 2 years from the date of issue. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1; Red Leaf shall receive a payment of $10,000/month for the duration of the 12-month term of the engagement ("Term"). The Term may be terminated by TBH by giving 2 weeks' notice. Within 15 business days after Red Leaf first provides its services to TBH, TBH must issue to Red Leaf 2.5M unquoted options, expiring on 7 June 2020 ("Options") on the following terms: 1. 500,000 Options will be exercisable at $0.20 without any vesting conditions; 2. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.30 and will vest on 7 September 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 3. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.40 and will vest on 7 December 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; 4. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.50 and will vest on 7 March 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; and 5. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.60 and will vest on 7 June 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From greg.j.conroy at gmail.com Sat Jun 23 17:42:10 2018 From: greg.j.conroy at gmail.com (Greg Conroy) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 17:42:10 +1000 Subject: [AusRace] This does not look helpful to punters In-Reply-To: <006f01d40ac2$40be3f10$c23abd30$@ozemail.com.au> References: <006f01d40ac2$40be3f10$c23abd30$@ozemail.com.au> Message-ID: Hi Len, TB have sold their retail side so they aren?t going to be an operator in the sense you refer to. They will be a B2B systems supplier. Understand your concern, many have said the same to me, but from my point of view there does need to be a major separation of that data regardless. Greg. > On 23 Jun 2018, at 5:17 pm, L.B.Loveday wrote: > > TopBetta are direct competitors with the other bookmakers also offering their wares on Dynamic Odds. > > With TopBetta running DO, they will have access to the bets placed with other bookmakers - from whom, how much, accepted?, rejected?, partially accepted?, the effect of the bets on the prices offered, which punters to immediately restrict if they try to open a TopBetta account?. I think the operation is heading for trouble. > > > From: L.B.Loveday > > Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2018 1:25 PM > To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > > Subject: This does not look helpful to punters > > >> "TBH continues to execute on its wholesale business strategy with a range of initiatives" >> >> >> Expands Wholesale Offering by Acquiring 100% of World-Class Data Feed Company >> Sydney, June 14, 2018 AEST (ABN Newswire) - TopBetta Holdings Limited (ASX:TBH ) ("TBH" or the "Company") is pleased to announce that it has entered into a binding, conditional heads of agreement ("Heads of Agreement") to acquire 100% of the shares in data and betting tools company, DynamicOdds Pty Ltd ("DynamicOdds"), and its associated licensing brands ("Assets") (www.dynamicodds.com.au ) ("Acquisition"). The DynamicOdds brand is a provider of wagering data in Australia and currently supplies data feeds to (and delivers data on behalf of) Australia's Principal Racing Authorities as well as a number of Australia's licensed bookmakers and sophisticated punters. The data feeds provided by DynamicOdds are a key component for bookmakers both online and on-track in their fixed odds pricing models. >> >> Highlights >> >> - TBH enters into a conditional, binding Heads of Agreement to acquire data and betting tools provider, DynamicOdds.com.au >> >> - DynamicOdds provides live data solutions to Australia's Principal Racing Authorities >> >> - DynamicOdds provides the tools for bookmakers to power their fixed odds products >> >> - DynamicOdds acquisition to progress and consolidate TBH's wholesale strategy >> >> - TopBetta and MadBookie sale update >> >> - Red Leaf Securities appointed as Corporate Advisor >> >> TopBetta's CEO, Todd Buckingham commented: "DynamicOdds has developed a reputation as a respected provider of data and betting tools within the Australian racing industry and is a perfect fit for the TBH wholesale business model. >> >> "We're excited about the opportunity to continue to develop and enhance the current technology stack that helps punters make bets, and bookmakers take bets. At the same time, we also see a huge opportunity to expand the business into other verticals via partnerships with sporting and racing bodies globally. This acquisition is the perfect complementary business to continue with our Company's growth." >> >> DynamicOdds CTO Karl Begg and CEO David Begg commented: "DynamicOdds was established in 2006 as a platform for both punters and industry professionals to analyse and monitor the betting markets for the Australian racing codes. >> >> "Since its inception, DynamicOdds has established itself as an integral part of the Australian wagering landscape at both retail and commercial levels. >> >> "In August 2016, Racing Victoria commissioned DynamicOdds to provide an 'official price' for Victorian thoroughbred racing. DynamicOdds not only supplies the systems to produce and manage the official price, but also the infrastructure to display the price via on-course display networks. The official price service was quickly adopted by all other state thoroughbred racing authorities and implemented by second quarter 2017. >> >> "Combining both the experience and expertise of DynamicOdds, TBH and its subsidiaries, will ensure continued growth as we explore all opportunities within racing and sports markets domestically and into the UK and US markets." >> >> Key terms of the Heads of Agreement >> >> TBH has agreed to purchase 100% of the shares in DynamicOdds ("DO Shares"), and the associated licensing brands ("Assets") owned by C.D.K Software Limited (CDK), on the following key terms: >> >> 1. on completion of the Acquisition ("Completion"), TBH must issue to Dynamic IT Group Pty Ltd (or its nominee) 10m unquoted options over TBH shares, exercisable at $0.20 per option within 2 years from the date of issue. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1; >> >> 2. is conditional on the satisfaction or waiver of the following conditions precedent ("CPs"): >> >> a. TBH carrying out and completing due diligence in respect of DynamicOdds and the Assets and being satisfied in its sole discretion as to results of the due diligence; >> >> b. to the extent such approvals are required, TBH shareholders resolving to approve the Acquisition contemplated under this HOA, including any capital raising TBH considers necessary to complete the Acquisition; and >> >> c. negotiation and execution of final documentation required to give effect to the transactions contemplated under the Heads of Agreement, including without limitation, a share and asset sale agreement and a services agreement for the provision of management and related services by the shareholders of DynamicOdds ("DO Shareholders"); >> >> 3. on Completion, TBH must pay: >> >> a. $1.5m in cash to the DO Shareholders in consideration for the acquisition of the DO Shares; and >> >> b. $1m in cash to CDK in consideration for the acquisition of the Assets; >> >> 4. Within 12 months after Completion, TBH must: >> >> a. pay to CDK $7.5m in cash; or >> >> b. issue shares in TBH ("TBH Shares") to the value of $7.5m ("CDK Balance"). If TBH elects to settle the CDK Balance by issuing TBH Shares, CDK may require TBH to pay up to $5.5m of the CDK Balance in cash, with the remainder satisfied by way of issue of TBH Shares. There is currently no agreement to issue TBH Shares to CDK or the DO Shareholders; >> >> 5. If TBH fails to discharge the CDK Balance within 12 months of Completion, TBH must transfer the DO Shares and the Assets back to the DO Shareholders and CDK (respectively) and shall not be entitled to any refund of the amounts paid in respect of DO Shares and the Assets to date; >> >> 6. If TBH wishes to sell the DO Shares or the Assets before it discharges the CDK Balance, TBH must first offer those assets for sale to the DO Shareholders and CDK (respectively) and, in any event, TBH cannot transfer the DO Shares or the Assets before it discharges the CDK Balance in full; and >> >> 7. The Heads of Agreement shall terminate on 31 July 2018 or upon the prior insolvency of either party. >> >> About DynamicOdds >> >> DynamicOdds provide a range of free and premium betting related services for punters, racing authorities and bookmakers. The DynamicOdds odds comparison Premium application is used by punters and bookmakers alike in Australia and consumes a range of data sources that include; fixed odds pricing, tote and exchange prices, race day control information, form, statistics and an extensive runner pricing database. >> >> The application allows punters and bookmakers to place bets with other integrated licensed bookmakers from the one interface. A free version of the site also exists that includes price comparisons for both racing and sports betting. >> >> DynamicOdds also powers and provides the official starting price ("SP") for racing authorities such as Racing Victoria and Racing NSW and Racing Queensland. >> >> Earn-Out payment for Mad Bookie acquisition >> >> Further to the announcement dated 13 April 2017 ("MB Announcement"), the Company and Mad Bookie Pty Ltd ("Mad Bookie") have finalized the Purchase Price (as defined in the MB Announcement) payable by the Company for the acquisition of the assets of Mad Bookie ("MB Assets"). It has been determined that the Purchase Price for the MB Assets is $1,155,700, however, $150,000 in payments have already been made towards the Purchase Price. In accordance with the terms of the agreement to acquire the MB Assets, the Company is required to pay the balance of $1,005,700 in cash, or a combination of cash and scrip, on or before June 29, 2018. >> >> TopBetta Pty Ltd and Mad Bookie sale update >> >> As announced to the market on the 18th April 2018 ("PlayUp Announcement"), TBH intends to the sell the TopBetta and Mad Bookie B2C businesses to blockchain enabled global fantasy sports and online sports betting company, PlayUp Limited ("PlayUp"). >> >> Subject to shareholder approval at the Company's General Meeting called for the 18th June 2018 and the satisfaction or waiver of other conditions precedent, TBH will receive $6M (plus GST if applicable) ("Sale") as well as earning a 20% revenue share from both the TopBetta and Mad Bookie brands for a 24 month period under associated software licence and services agreements ("Licensing and Services Agreements"). >> >> Further to the announcement released on 4 June 2018, the Company advises that the ASX has not granted the waiver of ASX Listing Rule 11.4 in relation to the Sale and, accordingly, the Company will be seeking shareholder approval of Resolution 1 (amongst others) at the General Meeting to be held on 18 June 2018 ("General Meeting"). Further details are set out in the Notice of General Meeting dated 15 May 2018. >> >> Should shareholders approve Resolution 1 at the General Meeting, PlayUp will be required to pay the $3m deposit to TBH by 25th June 2018. The deposit will be only be refundable if TBH does not satisfy or waive each of the conditions precedent (as detailed in the PlayUp Announcement) on or before 31 July 2018. The Licensing and Services Agreements are in the final stages of negotiation and, accordingly, it is expected that all conditions precedent will be satisfied or waived on or around 18th June 2018 (subject to shareholder approval under ASX Listing Rule 11.4 at the General Meeting) and, accordingly, completion is expected to occur, and the final additional payment of $3m will be due and payable to TBH, on or around 25 June 2018. >> >> Corporate Advisor Appointed >> >> Sydney-based stockbroking firm Red Leaf Securities Pty Ltd ("Red Leaf") has been appointed as Corporate Advisor to assist the Company as it focusses on executing its wholesale business strategy. >> >> Red Leaf is a boutique broker that invests on behalf of high net worth clients and fund managers. The brokerage firm specialises in Australian equities, with a focus on undervalued small cap companies, and corporate transactions. >> >> Red Leaf shall receive a payment of $10,000/month for the duration of the 12-month term of the engagement ("Term"). The Term may be terminated by TBH by giving 2 weeks' notice. Within 15 business days after Red Leaf first provides its services to TBH, TBH must issue to Red Leaf 2.5M unquoted options, expiring on 7 June 2020 ("Options") on the following terms: >> >> 1. 500,000 Options will be exercisable at $0.20 without any vesting conditions; >> >> 2. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.30 and will vest on 7 September 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; >> >> 3. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.40 and will vest on 7 December 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; >> >> 4. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.50 and will vest on 7 March 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; and >> >> 5. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.60 and will vest on 7 June 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date. >> >> These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1. >> >> >> About Topbetta Holdings Ltd >> >> >> TopBetta Holdings Limited (ASX:TBH ) is an ASX-listed holding company and a global provider of online wagering products and services to both wholesale and retail markets through its various wholly owned subsidiaries. TopBetta Pty Ltd operates a retail wagering business, offering consumers wagering, fantasy tournament and content products and services. Global Tote Australia Pty Ltd conducts TBH's Wholesale Business, which includes operating and licensing its wholesale tote product which enables licensed wagering operators, including corporate bookmakers and tote operators from all over the world, to participate in global pools. The Wholesale Business is conducted under a B2B licence granted by the UK Gambling Commission to Global Tote Limited, a company incorporated in Alderney, UK. >> >> *********************** >> >> ASX:TBH is 10c at present, has been 50c in the past year. >> The exercise price on these options are in expectation of very aggressive price increases over a short time frame, especially for Red Leaf the broker for the deal >> >> 1. on completion of the Acquisition ("Completion"), TBH must issue to Dynamic IT Group Pty Ltd (or its nominee) 10m unquoted options over TBH shares, exercisable at $0.20 per option within 2 years from the date of issue. These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1; >> >> >> Red Leaf shall receive a payment of $10,000/month for the duration of the 12-month term of the engagement ("Term"). The Term may be terminated by TBH by giving 2 weeks' notice. Within 15 business days after Red Leaf first provides its services to TBH, TBH must issue to Red Leaf 2.5M unquoted options, expiring on 7 June 2020 ("Options") on the following terms: >> >> 1. 500,000 Options will be exercisable at $0.20 without any vesting conditions; >> >> 2. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.30 and will vest on 7 September 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; >> >> 3. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.40 and will vest on 7 December 2018 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; >> >> 4. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.50 and will vest on 7 March 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date; and >> >> 5. 500,000 options will be exercisable at $0.60 and will vest on 7 June 2019 subject to Red Leaf continuing to be engaged by TBH at that date. >> >> These Options will be issued under the Company's 15% placement capacity under ASX Listing Rule 7.1. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com Greg Conroy, Inventor of Award Winning and Free: www.rewardbet.com ? more: https://about.rewardbet.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Sun Jun 24 12:24:03 2018 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 10:24:03 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Exponentialality - another way In-Reply-To: <000001d40b54$d3147a40$793d6ec0$@bigpond.com> References: <000001d40b54$d3147a40$793d6ec0$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <000201d40b62$6c359b20$44a0d160$@bigpond.com> The Equation If you have a points system for rating horse races where the top pick has a long-term strike rate of at least 22%, and provided that the points are adjusted so that the bottom pick has zero points, using the equation a=b+((b*b*c)/(d-e)) to further adjust the points will provide a better approximation of the chances of each horse in a race in relation to the other runners. Where : a = Horses adjusted points b = Horses allocated points (after making bottom pick zero) c = Skewing Coefficient d = Highest possible score attainable (after making bottom pick zero) + 10% e = Top pick score (after making bottom pick zero) Now, let's recalculate the prospective dividends for a race applying the equation. Step 1 Make sure the bottom rated runner has a score of zero. In our case it already has, so no further adjustments are necessary. But if Horse F had say a score of -200, then we would add 200 points to each of the horse scores. If Horse F had a score of +200, then we would subtract 200 points from each score. The scores for Race 1 are therefore : Race 1 Points Horse A 1000.00 Horse B 800.00 Horse C 600.00 Horse D 400.00 Horse E 200.00 Horse F 0.00 Use these scores as b in the equation. Step 2 Estimate the lowest rated runners chances of winning. In fields of 11 runners OR MORE, this should almost always be 1%. As Race 1 is only a 6 horse field, but the scores are widespread, Horse F's chances could be estimated at 2%. Step 3 Determine the highest possible score a horse may obtain (after the adjustment to make the lowest score zero). And add another 10%. Assume in our case this is 2000 points. This is the highest possible difference between the top pick and last pick and is d in the equation. Step 4 Take the top pick score (after the zero score adjustment). In Race 1 this is 1000 and is e in the equation. Step 5 Decide on the skewing coefficient (c in the equation). This is set according to the long-term system top pick strike rate. A setting of 0.5 would be about right for a 23% strike rate and perhaps 2 or 3 for around 28%. We shall use 1. The skewing coefficient determines the amount of exponentialality. This is why it is increased as the strike rate improves. You may have to experiment with the setting as both the coefficient and the chosen figure for highest possible score affect the amount of skew. Step 6 Calculate the adjusted scores by applying the equation to each score. Horse A adjusted score = 1000 + ((1000x1000x1)/(2000-1000)) 2000 2000 2000 Horse B adjusted score = 800 + ((800x800x1)/(2000-1000)) 1440 Race 1 Raw Score Adjusted Score Horse A 1000.00 2000 Horse B 800.00 1440 Horse C 600.00 960 Horse D 400.00 560 Horse E 200.00 222 Horse F 0.00 0 Step 7 Now add up all the adjusted scores. 2000 + 1440 + 960 + 560 + 222 + 0 = 5182. To take in the estimated 2% chance for Horse F, divide this total by 98% (i.e. 100% - 2%). 5182 / 98% = 5287 Step 8 Divide each horses adjusted score into the adjusted total to calculate an estimate of the percentage winning chance for each horse. Horse A Chances = (2000/5287)x100 = 37.8% Divide 100 by the percentage chance for the desired dividend. 100 / 37.8 = $2.65 Race 1 Adjusted Score % Chance Calculated Dividend Horse A 2000.00 37.8 2.65 Horse B 1440.00 27.2 3.70 Horse C 960.00 18.2 5.5 Horse D 560.00 10.6 9.45 Horse E 222.00 4.2 23.8 Horse F 0.00 2 50 Another way Virus-free. www.avg.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: