From RaceStats at hotmail.com Wed Feb 1 12:55:51 2017 From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 01:55:51 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Banned from Betfair Message-ID: Hi all, Just a note to say be very careful if you use self exclusion for Betfair, I have been banned permanently. A bit of background, there are three options for self exclusion, I took the lesser option because I wasn?t going to use the account for three months and have had some security issues with my computer. Betfair takes any form of self exclusion as ?you are a problem gambler!? I explained my reasons for the exclusion and was knocked back and told the decision will not be reversed and no further correspondence will be entered into. I was arbing, so was losing on Betfair and winning with the bookies that would still have me. In all the years I?ve been using Betfair, they?ve invited me to various functions which I attended, generated a massive amount of commission for them, and had a client manager contact me many times to make sure I was happy. I met various Betfair managers from both overseas and Tasmania. I should have just closed the account. Not happy Jan! Thought this might prevent others from being banned for life. Lindsay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Thu Feb 2 12:38:23 2017 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 09:38:23 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaking firm, part 1 Message-ID: <000001d27cf5$0afdc280$20f94780$@bigpond.com> 1 - A SHIMMY IN THE RING++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lew was a bookmaker, businessman and my boss for a while before he moved to Melbourne. I got asked to work for him there too. We went to 3 or 4 meetings each week, invariably in the early afternoon and occasionally an evening meeting finishing at 7.00pm. There was Lew, the boss, Marie, his boss, Punchy and me and another who was the runner and info getter. The meetings were always well attended and may have been an important part of the social fabric of the district. There were a lot of horse numbers, every second person was a trainer of his own horses and an expert. The work was probably profitable and pleasant while the sun shone. I was the designated driver, Punchy was in the front, Lew was asleep in the back, always, and Marie knitted. We left the course within 50 minutes of the last race, the car had been refuelled on the way there, and home we went. Then when we were driving and got close to home Lew would leave the car and jog home in an obscure League Guernsey from Illabo or Marrar or The Reefs or along the rail track from Wagga. Meanwhile, I/we would drive into town and bank the bag money in the night deposit box on week nights or in the service station floor safe, fuel the car, drive to his farm and wait for him there. Then take his car (or my bike) back into town with his clothes and shoes for next day and switch off the lights (it was a country town after all). Lew had a collection of perhaps 50 League jumpers from major, minor and obscure Clubs around Australia, and about 12-15 mannequins to wear them, scary things they were in lines in the shearing shed on their farm. So bright coloured jumpers on display on mannequins which were nude from the waist, funny. He had never played Rugby League but liked the commercial, business aspect to it. He went to rugby union playing schools in south island in New Zealand, worked in the timber purchasing trade there and came to Australia to do the same. He had an open shed on the farm, a big hay shed style, with timber drying and stacked in it. It was bound down in bundles with wire surcingles, to stop it twisting he said, and he moved it around with an ancient forklift occasionally. It may have been that he made some money early from timber and that his superannuation was in that shed. The timber was sold and forms the floor and walls of a business premises and an embassy in Canberra. Although Marie would have kept her Zebra wood and her cedar from Queensland, untreated but so shiny you could use it as a mirror and from a fallen tree probably more than a thousand years old. Wasps were encouraged or were introduced to live in the shed as they controlled and ate the wood bugs, termite's maybe, ants and birds. In the morning Lew would jog into town with Marie, his wife, and she would go to Church (yes, in her trackies) and he would have a swim if possible otherwise do a weight circuit at the Police Boys Club then walk over the road to the service station/motel, have a shower, get dressed, and expect us to have behaved similarly. I think not. Marie went home in the car to feed and comb her 'boys' , Shetland bred horses - 'bad boys' with 'tude who hated each other and everybody, except Marie. She named them after some Apostles and Popes. Then, within an hour she would return and start work herself. He worked the Riverina circuit centred on trotting at Junee. There were up to 4 meetings a week and we went to two or three of these and always to the Cups and Specials that each Club had on their annual calendar. Lew sponsored the offices of 5 clubs, essentially paying for their stationery, phone, and postage. It was about $50 a meeting for each club and this sponsorship went largely unnoticed by most. The cheque and receipt went through his business account. He was not the biggest bookie around, a Wagga Wagga group claimed that title, nor was he a quotation buster however he priced all runners himself and his prices were independent to other fielders. Lew was an opinion bookmaker, never laid off (except through the on course Tote) although he accepted all cash bets from other fielders, would not give credit to anyone including his relatives, studied the form guide until 0400 then ran and swam and slept in the car on the way to the course and was more often asleep before we drove away from the course. At a trot meeting, before my time, Lew had accepted bets from brothers on their horse which won. His price quote was longer than the ruling quote. They got a better price with us. It's just business, and the favourite, a 5 time district cup winner was all class but lost because of a malfunction of its gear and its driver. It lost by half a length after a gallop in the back straight. The brothers demanded a steward inquiry because of the price of their horse, which won and should have been favourite by weight of money. Did the bookmaking fraternity have knowledge of the race result? Specifically, when some had their horse as favourite we did not, it happens a lot but the brothers believed themselves and nobody else. The stewards said no then, and no at a subsequent HQ hearing, and the brothers were warned about their behaviour on course, and before the stewards on both occasions. Lew did not attend the meetings nor was he summonsed to do so. An official came and inspected the books, by invitation, and I took him through the race, bet by bet. The driver of the favourite apologised for the drive and believed he was the winner but for a decision to pull wide in the gallop incident when half the field went through underneath and then he got going again and lost by the margin mentioned. This horse won a few on the trot in better class races when transferred to Newcastle. In later races elsewhere, the brothers horse failed as favourite, then won as favourite when the 6 leaders tangled and failed at a meeting not attended by us. Two of the brothers had been removed from the course by Police at the last meeting. The dislike by the brothers of Lew and Marie business festered for a couple of years, most thought the brothers were moneyed dunces. There were dramas of varying proportion every race day. Somebody had bet the wrong horse (Gala Supreme instead of Gala Red type of thing), or the ticket price was different than the board price and they couldn't work out why(Lew wrote 20/100 for a 4/1 runner and often did not shorten his odds during the bet up time and may lengthen the price, so 4/1 might be 7/1 in 46 seconds time, and essentially, he wrote on the ticket what was called for the book, as an example I would call 'Pugsley ,100 to 20 and I would go into a spiel if the return warranted it, it was about a $400 cash limit payment and the balance with a cheque, this was printed on the back of the ticket too) he would repeat what I had called and add the number printed on the ticket, say 22 and back would come the reply 22 two two, thank you he would say and the cardboard ticket would change hands and I would say thank you and reach for the next bet. Or he would go to the fractions, recall or re state the bet and all the punter heard or understood would be the horse name then his ticket value would be different than expected (more return for his betting dollars) We wrote out until there was nobody in the queue and perhaps the runners were in the back straight for the last time, and obviously after the start of the race. Back to the brothers and their horse. After I started work with Lew, the horse was entered for a race meeting which we worked. The brothers other horse had won an earlier/previous race as favourite in a good display. In the race for the subject horse Lew took 3 bets at 4/1 from the brothers and did not touch his board. He then accepted a much larger bet on the same horse from a separate group. Again he did not touch his board. Lew said to the ring 'I'll take all bets at 4's on the local'(the subject horse). This was marginally longer than the general quote. The on course Tote had closed. There was a queue forming and I reckon we took most of the intended bet dollars. The horse was 9 years old, had been up for 43 runs, was in a race 270 yards longer than its winning band, had erratic form when driven for early speed and had one of the brothers as driver, his 3rd open class drive. Also, another runner in this race was the Newcastle horse who had run an unlucky 2nd when they last met. The driver was the State best for three years running and he and some others had been invited for the meeting. While the subject horse was being inundated in bets, Lew was winding out other runners looking for takers. We got them too. The race started and the subject horse led, by a lot, until leaving the straight for the second time, when it was caught and passed by the eventual winner and 5 others. The Newcastle horse ran 3rd. We wrote three bets on the winner, one from Kevin on the stand to our right and one from the owner/driver family, their only bet they said and a late third bet from a long - time client who backed a few as well. Owners usually got a point more, on the quiet, for cash. The winner had been assessed at 9/1 and was written at 9. There were sizable bets on other runners at shorter prices. It was a winning race for us and the busiest I had experienced to that point. The boss said thanks afterwards. Marie was coding/checking the sheets after the last and also commented that she had not seen that much activity ever. The Tote price of the subject horse was better than our quote, the winner price was worse and the Newcastle horse was tote fav. Marie, and others, was able to get on course Tote prices after the Tote closed (10 minutes on course, an hour off course) The brothers spoke with Lew and there was peace for a while. They had not backed their first, earlier, winner with us and did not have further bets with us at later meetings. Three of the brothers (there were 7 - must been hell at bath time) were trotting club committee men. The next day I was due to be the collector on the gate at the local trotting meeting, a task organised by the brother who knew of my earlier connection with bookmaker Kevin. It was district Cup final day and it was busy. I met Lew and Marie then. They were with Kevin, the bookmaker mentioned previously that I had worked with on and off previously depending on the sobriety of his staff. Seriously. Kevin was on the bag for Lew this day, Marie and Kevin would manage the book until Punchy arrived to take over the bag and Kevin would do the book and Lew would write. After lunch and after the second race Kevin asked me to run some bets for him. Lew said it was okay I filled out the call sheets and worked a couple of races, did the collection, balanced and signed off and talked a lot to Marie. Then the horse owner brother asked if I could help in the Tote, counting and wrapping coin and sorting and counting notes. It was about 15 minute's work for which the Tote paid me $10. The Tote had a mechanised coin wrapper that compressed (marginally) and held the coin then wrapped it in a paper tube, 4 layers thick and much quicker than manual wrapping.. You opened the tube by cracking it like an egg, hitting up against a sharp surface. It required an effort and made a noise. I did about 30 tubes ($4 in 20c) with this and left them in the money room. I got a tea and returned and noticed that some of the tubes had been taken. I was in the company of employees, both when wrapping, leaving and returning with my tea. I then heard the distinctive sound, a crack, of the tubes being broken in the room next door, the ladies toilet. The girls went in there and found a casual employee in the process of opening the tubes, with some tubes already opened, the coin in her cardigan pocket and about $600 in notes also. She admitted the lot and also admitted 10 or more instances in recent weeks. The Tote manager said they were out of balance by $2300 during that time but no plan had been put in place to see why. I had a time outside the tote and told Marie about what had happened. Punchy the bagman had not arrived and they had been busy. Lew asked me to talk him before I left for the day. The Tote manager asked me to help out again, counting and wrapping, which I did (they gave me $50, and as you said in the 60's- groovy) - we were balanced, paid out and packing up within 30 minutes of the last race. The Tote manager took my name and contact details and said the company may make a job offer based on his recommendation. See, and I thought it was my Old Spice and besides who else around there paid $60 for an hours work. I had learnt money counting, sorting, wrapping as a bank teller for a year or so years previously and after that I had worked for a couple of bookmakers too and then did odd jobs around the place. I was always in work. The tote temporaries were paid off and left and I watched the manager dis assemble a tote machine, a mechanical calculator that worked better when worked continuously, he said. No bet data was entered until after the tote closure, three or more girls then entered the bet data, the data was totalled and then rung through and telexed to HQ in Sydney where presumably it was added to other collected pools for that race. The final div was decided in Sydney although a local div was calculated too, the holdings particular to the meeting and race. The divs differed widely I was told. The local div could be decided quickly and this info was often sourced by Marie and others. The info was used in the last minutes of betting. In isolation it was good information to have, the locals, betting on their favourites and the owners and trainers, with inside knowledge betting on the Tote early then plunging with the bookies late in the betting but their intentions telegraphed often. I was waiting in the car park as it emptied, waiting for Lew and Marie. They showed up, Marie had been talking to Nuns. Lew offered me a job. He had been given some background by Kevin, for whom I had worked 10 or so meetings and who was now retired but managing his property portfolio. Lew had a problem, Punchy (because he is Mr Punch) had missed a couple of meetings and was in the mix to go to UK as a member of the Kangaroos support staff for 11 weeks and he had several boxers in training that would take him away for a period after that. It was 7 day a week employment with work on Sundays also however half days off would become available. I said yes and started with him the next day, a Sunday. I had wanted to be a bookmaker and had saved my security deposit. I was a small punter, in preseason training, an occasional smoker, a non-drinker, out of love again. The fall back plan was to be a patrol officer in PNG, I nearly got that too. The girl who stole the money is the daughter of one of the brothers, and niece to the others. Lew never took credit bets. It peeved the other fielders no end. Lew had a cash payout limit of $400. If your bet won you got $400 cash and the balance as a cheque. He did this to maintain cash reserves in the bag, and in the ring generally. Some of the others had no policy, they just gave you a cheque if you won, no cash and others, like us, had a limit, less than ours though. There was a sign alerting bettors to the cash payout limit and they were told at the time of placing the bet, by me, using the phrase 'thanks for your business, there is a cash payout limit of $400 on this bet, any balance in excess of that will be by company cheque. Do you understand that?" First time clients would then say "What?" and existing clients, who knew the rules, would say "Cracked record". Maybe 10% of punters bet this big. Most bet $20 to $50 win on the favourite or second favourite and a lesser amount on the 3rd and 4th favourites. We were win betting only. There is no secret bookmakers information otherwise all winners would have reduced prices but information regarding ability and intent is accessible and signs of betting intent are available on course. Some days the money is away. On days there are expected to be strong betting races there is often an increased involvement in an earlier race or races. Bettors invariably spread their money around, a portion of it here and there and some with us. Lew wanted all the bet money possible and wanted to hold all the money associated with those bets and priced his board accordingly. He had a cash payout limit of $400 but often had a liability of $4000 - $7000 to one or two runners. This at a meeting where the total income off 7- 8 races may be $10000 and he was offering up to $7000 on 5-6 of those races. He lost, they all did, but he won too and between the two outcomes he made a living. Nor did he shrink or pull back. Say he paid out $5000 in wins on one race then the next race he would again have liabilities of $7000 and he may have made up the shortfall over 5 or so races. There are a few cubic feet in a bookies bag, as big as your microwave oven, but there have been several times when I saw it full of money, all the notes facing the right way, all tight in rubber bands, all in bundles of a hundred notes of all denominations and some of the earlier issued company cheques were in there as well as their part time owners cashed them in to have a bet on the 'get out' last race. Then he put $20 on the bar for volunteers, including the bar staff no matter what result had occurred on the day. Mind you, a pot cost you 35c then so it was a fair bit of beer. The committee got their drinks for nothing for some reason. He never touched the bag money, it was balanced by me, checked by him, the bag closed and locked and strapped to me until it was deposited in the night safe at the Bank or into the company floor safe. An hour after the last we would have been 20 clicks on the way home, Lew would have been asleep in his joggers, ridiculously tight shorts and coloured Rugby League jumper waiting for the signal to get out and jog home 10- 12 kilometres or so, from some pre-determined spot. Marie had an account and an order book, like a cheque book with NSW Railways and they would some nights get me to drop them at Wagga or Cootamundra on a Friday or Saturday to catch a sleeper train to Melbourne or Sydney and return on Tuesday or later. They had a house in Melbourne and a unit in Sydney. Lew would often arrive back in a new Ford, a road delivery for a dealer further south, as he was friends with the Ford executive who controlled this. The cash payout limit of $400 was a starting point for Marie to wend her magic words with the winners. The spiel went like this often: 'Look, I'll give you a cheque now for the stake you just used to win this amount. You can bank that, it's as if you have never spent the money and then you can use the winnings you have to bet with for the rest of the day. If you like, each time you win I will write a cheque for the stake, put those cheques in your shirt pocket and at the end of the day I will pay you out for them if I can. There are conditions, we hold the winnings and you bet with us in upcoming races. I will give you an identification card, you and I will agree on your balance before the next bet and you initial the card and my ledger and I do the same." Except, Marie said it all in about 16 words. Most People thought this was a good idea and took the offer, they had their money back and in their shirt pocket. Say they had initially backed a winner at 7/1 with $50. They got the cheque to cover the $50 and had $350 banked to bet in upcoming races. Next race they bet $50 on the favourite and $50 on a longer price. They lose and the initial winnings are reduced to $250, that's 4/1. Next race, perhaps chastened, they have $50 on a longer price and it loses. The winning bet is now priced at 3/1. In the next, say a Cup, with better class runners they have $100 on their pick, $50 on another and cash their cheque to have $50 on the place tote. They lose with us and the winning bet is now priced at 1/1. Our punter has $50 in the Bank. Marie would then give him the 'talk' and he would walk away with his $50. If you followed these people I am sure they went to a Tote window out of sight of mother Marie and plonked on the second favourite for a place or similar. That 7/1 winner example, Lew may have it as 12/1 in his pre race market, 12/1 and you are holding 1/1 with it now. Is that an under or overs or what. Some people thought it was a good idea and took their winnings and a cheque and perhaps did not bet with us again that day. In a perfect world that's supposed to be how it is. Some people thought it was not a good idea and said so. Some went and got the Stewards who were very aware of the practice. Punters can accept the conditions and service and not accept the service and conditions. Marie took the initial winnings, $400 in the demonstration used, and put these in a bag at her feet. Her chair legs actually sat inside a suitcase like contraption, a mobile office for her, with a bench and lots of pockets. Each bet from the 'bank' was a cash bet from her to me, called as such with a written ticket, the number called and recorded by the penciller. The punter got his ticket to have and hold. To my knowledge there was never a credit bet entered in the time I worked for the company. Before my time, Lew did allow a trainer to back several of his own on credit, they did not pay and subsequent requests for payment were ignored. He then refused a cash bet by a third party on behalf of the same trainer on another trainer horse or horses which won. What do you do in any event, deduct the stake amount from the money owed or apply the full win amount against the debt. The trainer offered a box trailer as part payment but this was declined. The trailer was left at Lew's business for a number of weeks. It was then loaned to a charity community organisation who did not return it. The story got back to the owners of the horses he backed on credit. They had not been told of the betting intentions of the stable and this started a sub-routine of action by the owners. Then the trainer of the horses which won became involved and so did those owners. Don't know how that all panned out but trainer B and his clients were clients of ours. In the late 60s, trotting and harness racing is the poor cousin in horse racing prizemoney distribution. Often the on course tote holding exceeded the off course holding from around Australia. Owners, trainers and others involved could only gain a benefit if they bet. Favourites are normally short and defined and runners odds past 50/1 were rare with odds often capped at twice the runner numbers plus 3 or so e.g. 15 starters meant the longest price was 30/1 + 3 = 33/1. Book percentage often totalled 130%+, if you could get bet coverage, very much larger percentages were seen too, and an average would be quite high as a result. Lew lived and breathed those percentages, he covered the book with the back bets on longer prices but he made a specialty of wringing the shorties, calling and cajoling punters, urging them to compare prices then to come and have their bet with him. You can't follow the tote, well not back then, because there are no tote price div displays to scan, Marie could access the calculated divs after the Tote closed, all the fielders did, there was a blackboard in the Tote room managers office wall and s/he put the divs (25c and then $1) on that as the machine, and it was a machine with cranks and rods and wheels. It also swallowed my pomme noisette, remember them, when the whole cup of them rolled across the top of some oscillating rods and minced themselves as they disappeared, strangely, it quietened the machine noise, but, look gravity, can't trust it ever. I told the machinist, and she laughed, so I am not sure she understood. What else can I do, especially as they have sold out of Chikos by then. To be continued --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Thu Feb 2 12:51:13 2017 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 09:51:13 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Recall: Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaking firm, part 1 Message-ID: Tony Moffat would like to recall the message, "Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaking firm, part 1". --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1373 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Thu Feb 2 15:54:40 2017 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:54:40 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 Message-ID: <000501d27d10$76be08c0$643a1a40$@bigpond.com> 1 Shimmy in the Ring -Part 2 I posted and recalled the first part but it went through. This part is longer and not proofed. It has had some names and incidents removed. In the late 60s, trotting and harness racing is the poor cousin in horse racing prizemoney distribution. Often the on course tote holding exceeded the off course holding from around Australia. Owners, trainers and others involved could only gain a benefit if they bet. Favourites are normally short and defined and runners odds past 50/1 were rare with odds often capped at twice the runner numbers plus 3 or so e.g. 15 starters meant the longest price was 30/1 + 3 = 33/1. Book percentage often totalled 130%+, if you could get bet coverage, very much larger percentages were seen too, and an average would be quite high as a result. There were some good class horses racing at this time, some of them went to trainers in Sydney and Melbourne and paid their way there too. Fields were large and it was standing start conditions, a rubber band released from across the track and they were off. The bikes were just becoming light weight but there was still bamboo shafts and woven wicker platforms and spoked wheels, inadequate protective helmets and lace up shoes. The bookmaking office, the registered address, was on the farm in a room designated for that purpose. Just a fireplace, a desk, a phone and telex, a longer, wider table and some chairs with a view over the dam, home of the cannibalistic geese. There were two sp in town, one a funeral director, but Lew and we stayed away from them. The Police came and took photos of the office and told Lew they had been monitoring phone calls to and fro. This was the old plug and call days, your call was connected to you by a human being. Lew never took a bet before he got up on his stand 22 minutes before the first race. To bet with him you had to be on course. All day he got off the stand after the start and talked to connections and others who were not watching the race. He rarely did. After the race he would say 'how much is this going to cost me' or some other glib comment like 'Am I a millionaire yet' and I would have the holdings and payout and he would do the math and say 'good'. Everything was 'good'. His response to a question was 'good' which was interpreted as 'yes'. A no required an explanation and further input, and after assessing all the known facts, after about 7 seconds back would come 'good'. If, in the end 'good' was not 'good', then he moved on. At the time of the initial 'good' he had said yes and he lived and breathed that. You had to be in possession of all the facts though in order to get a no into a 'good'. Questions had to be asked that could only be answered as 'good'. It's an art, ask me. Such as, 'Lew we are going to move the stand into the shade', 'good' as opposed to, 'but all the betting traffic is here in the sun'. He had his prices and percentages, an occasional bet with the Tote, a further occasional Tote bet for himself, 'Lew-man', separate and remote from the book for which Marie would give him the money from her purse. I don't think he had a wallet even. He went to Auckland for 3 days and got annoyed when they knocked back his offered cheques and his Dad and brothers had to lend him local money, for which he gave them a cheque I'm sure. Some punters were genius. "Ted" a carpenter never failed to back a winner with us, say 12 consecutive winners over 8 meetings. He bet up to $40 maximum on his single pick and stood near the stand during the race then went to the queue. These were winners out to 8/1. Sometimes he would have $10 with us and then some on the Tote, he often did not cash his ticket with us, it was held by him and not changed back by us. There are local and association rules to cover that and Ted bought a stamp album in one day and he had pages of betting tickets, ours and others, some out of business. I don't know if any in that book were winners but there was a few there, 4 to a page and the book was full. Lew was an opinion man and trusted his own form study. Chances are he also had the winner in his sights. He, or more often Marie bet on the tote at the $20 window. 'A company investment' he called it and it was never spoken of in a loud voice, returns would be in the $300-$400 range. Then he may have a bet for himself as I wrote before, 'some for Uncle LewLew' he would announce then get some money from Marie's purse and stand in the queue at the Tote window. Marie would talk to somebody's wife and I would sneak off and have a leak, the bag chained to me, funny mind picture even now. From judge's final, to payoff, to setting the board for the next was about 11 minutes then 22 minutes maybe of dealing, and calling bets before the next race started. Our stand was quiet, Lew did spruik often and if he did it was about some local champ, 'get over the odds on your cousin here' type of thing and the ring would smile for once. In fact, Lews personification of a runner was expected, and if there wasn't horses on the horizon you would have thought it was Jimmy Sharmans junior boxing tent, with his drone of 'get your best odds here, step up step this way and back the fav here, best prices for those with crooked noses'. It's not funny now, but it was expected then and it could be hurtful, it was a challenge, it's just business, that's all. Lew perhaps had fought with Sharman troupe members. It's mostly a friendless place, the ring. Serious faces scanning the odds, looking at their notes, or talking to other serious faces. Not that we are the enemy, we were the reason they stood there with their serious faces on, perhaps it's how they believed they should behave, to display some credibility or pre-knowledge. The company was known to be generous, Lews market was close to other boards but it was his and a runner at 4/1 might be 9/1 on form, it's just that others had it shorter than us and were writing business on it, why wouldn't we extend it to get some bets too and of course, nowhere near its form price. Lew gave fractions, the increase in return to the punter, after I had called the money side precisely he would intervene and say to Stuart, 'write 100 to 16' for a 15 bet at 6's then go through the rigmarole of getting a dollar note from his sock and putting it in the bag. The client got 3/1 for that dollar for free too, pure circus. He had a business model and he talked about it in the car, if he could stay awake. He wanted the company to prosper, he wanted us to be transparent in our dealings, and the odds are on display on our stand, our prices are better, bet with us, bet within the rules of betting. He never gave credit, he never donated money that would be punted, he paid up after every race, and you pay up before every race. He was not free with his opinion either, the board prices came from him and his piece of notepaper, the prices were set in less time and usually first, the other bagman would rock up and say the boss wants some of the toppie and Lew would say 'I got a big man with a big bag, tell him' out would come the 200 or some such and I would call the bet, Lew would write and say 'two two' or whatever the ticket number was and Stuart would say back 'Yes 2 2' and I would be talking to the next client. The punters would be bursting with anticipation to get their bets on, and move on to watch the race or move down the and around the ring. They would call to Lew 'I want some of that 7 s please' although they might be 3rd in the queue and Lew would say 'sure' and sure enough in a couple of bets later he would hand across his money and get it on at 7's. It rarely moved, especially at the trots. If Lew rolled it in before the punters and they asked for the early price they got it, say 6/4 into 5/4 , a sizeable shift, and punter B wanted his 400 at 6/4, you're on, just tell us what you want. Within the confines of the book prices you can do that relatively safely, it's the crazy stuff that doesn't work for you, like 400 at 6/4 then 600 at 5/1 just to get the income from the same client. He's no mug, none of them are, he is happy to put his first up at 6/4 and to him that is better than the winning chance of this conveyance. Fascinating is the ebb and flow at your stand but through the ring also during the pre-amble and after the jump, big bets have been lost and won after the jump. We can write tickets and have a few at the stand while the race is under way and in the back straight. I was allowed to call the bets as I had asked Lew to do this. I was wanting to get the mental acuity of punting down and calling does this. Generally, I called the take side of the bet as 1 or 2 or 4 or 8 and these were my multiplicands. I meant start at evens 1/1, then 2/1, 3/1,4/1 primary school stuff On days we were not at a trot meeting there was a communal brunch, this the era of early bbqs but mostly it was bread rolls and salad and cold meat that Marie had prepared. There were 11 persons associated with the company business, 23 if you included the motel and service station and more than 90 in the whole concern if the other service stations are included. Snipped> The service stations were leased. Lew wanted to buy the sites, change the brand, but continue as he had been including buying fuel from the company who supplied it. It didn't happen although he was offered further sites to lease towards Hay and south towards the border. The fuel delivery lease changed too and it required negotiation to get it working to the company benefit again. Lew and/or Sid spent days in Sydney sorting it out. The MP for the area got involved. I was with Lew and Marie to learn the operation of bookmaking and he was a good teacher. Not really a face manager, he knew people who were big bettors and welcomed them to the stand and he was often surprised, but did not show it, at others who approached him and wanted a sizeable bet, up to his maximum anyway and he took them all on. He might accept another big bet on the same horse later in betting but that depended on what he had written against other runners. He told the big bettors that too saying check with me later I might ease yours to get a bit more from you, ok. It was a challenge, really, saying I have your bet but later on I will have another bet with you a longer odds for the same amount. They came back more often than not and some came back to gloat if they won. It's as if they had run the race. Snipped> Lew did his own form study and set his own prices, they generally agreed with the price rank in the ring. If A was favourite everywhere it was often favourite with us, the difference being they might have it at evens, 1/1, and Lew might have it at 2/1 or 6/4 and at that price he had in fact determined it to be a 5/1 chance at best although he was offering 2/1, thus protecting himself. Punters may have a price point at which they start betting, or more often stop betting and they are two different places for the same horse. Horse A mentioned, quoted at evens everywhere still generated business for other bookmakers, their faithful clients who bet with them and nobody else. Whereas other punters may not start betting until A gets to 2/1 but will continue betting until it is down to evens, so the ring compensates itself often. Lew looks at the field of 11 runners and starts with the premise that any runner can win, they are in the race, driven by an authorised driver and the race is run within the rules of racing therefore any runner can win. On that basis he should offer 10/1 the field, you can outlay 11 dollars, one dollar on each horse and receive 11 dollars back, you can't lose, you can't win either. Lew then winds in the prices of various runners, because of certain form tests, until he has some at 8/1 and some at 12. Or 15 or 25/1. Then he keeps modifying the prices, the four favourites perhaps until he settles at 3/1 for the best horse. Others might have that at 1/1 on their boards, and Lew will have it at 6/4 and will accept a bet at 2/1 if you ask him, just stand beside him and say what is the best price for $400 on such and such and he will tell you, you say thank you, yes, Lew calls the bet, Marie writes or pencils it in, I collect the money and Lew writes the ticket, and puts all that data on the ticket, the horse name, the amount on, the price he wrote it at. Marie totals the book after every bet and when he has a liability of $4000 on one particular horse she tells him, he actually adjusts the board when the holding is at $2000, and the other runners are lengthened, just marginally but perhaps the best in the ring now, the favourite stays put, he won't shorten that until or unless he gets a sizeable bet at the odds he has, but he might lengthen the 3rd to 6th favourites a little. The 6th favourite would probably be in the 12/1 range, the longest price for it anywhere and probably longer than the tote. Marie would leave at this point and put $20 or more on each of the 4th to 7th favourite, rarely asking a nearby bookie for the bet, just insuring the book and occasionally because we had not taken any money for those runners also. Snipped> It happens quite a bit actually, the favourites out to 5/1 are backed, then a big gap out to 20/1, and a few bets on the longer priced horses out there, Lew taking the bet and Marie laying off with $10 on the tote. Lew never, or at least, rarely, accepted a bet back from another bookie, it annoyed them but their only defense was to say no to us but they needed some lay money to balance their books too and they were only going to get it in the volume needed from Lew or another. I have seen races were the favourite lost and we have not had a bet recorded for it, people just bypassed us, bet with their bookie or the tote and on the same race we have not had a bet written against the winner, so we are holding a couple of thousand and its all ours. Nor did we write any business for the winner, lets say it's the third favourite, but we did take in perhaps $2700 on other bets and as I said, its all ours, the punters got it wrong. We did nothing to influence the out come of a race. Lew would have seen the price of the other runners getting out and he might take some bag money and bet with the tote on them. Lew would now have an opinion on the favourite, because we hold nothing for it he might crunch it on the tote and cover that bet with some others further out in the odds, the trouble horses that can win but need everything in their favour to do so, most often a miscalculation by a driver. He might spend a couple of hundred on runners out past 12/1 and if they salute he wins again, he has the money holding, there is nothing to pay out and he has a thousand or more coming in from tote bets or bet. He may be called a punter bookmaker, he is stunningly accurate in his assessments of runners ability it just comes down to the horse on the day, the driver, tactics and some other variables that can't be controlled. That's why they have odds. Strangely, he finds the concept of professional punting appealing, I mean, he does all this form study and pre race he has an idea of the outcome, down to a couple of horses anyway, and has priced their abilities so why not just give the bookmaking away and live the dream of punting for a living. He won't because Marie wants the connection of being involved on both sides, they are married and in a partnership in business as well. Lew will often have a bet away from the business side of things and put the money in his wallet after a collect, that is permissible, he did employ a commissionaire for a year, a man to do his betting for him which caused trouble in the ring, with bookies refusing to take bets from this man or halving the bets. So they bet on the tote, using the local tote prices to bet to chances and make a quid no matter what won. Later in Melbourne, he also had a man running for him and placing bets. He had Stewart as the form guru also and between the two of them, Lew and Stu, they did well I imagine. I was never given a tip in the time I worked there, we talked about certain races and runners but I was never told the perceived best horses in any race. Its just business, I would bet on the tote, or Marie would bet for me, if she was going that way for the business she would plonk my bet on too. I was permitted to bet with the book, up to a level which was way higher than I wanted anyway and I might have two $20 bets with him during the course of a day. I repeat, it's just business, not family or friend or anything like that and I got paid for what I did, I was an employee, earlier in his overall business of which bookmaking was an arm, then a pay rise to live and work in Melbourne with him, them actually because I often slept at their home after a country meeting and a late arrival back into the city. He did country trots in Victoria to start with then transferred to horse racing when he could, this was his intention all along. Snipped> Lew using a man to place his bets was a profitable time, about the same as writing tickets he has said. His brother or his cousins did the running for him when we were in Melbourne at the races, they would lay off for us, invariably on the Tote. His brother was a fearless operator really and it was boom or bust with him, he had a substantial bank I believe and a daily limit, a limit to lose that is, if he lost his bank roll he just sat with us and drank tea although that didn't happen often. He might be finished his betting by the time of the second jump race, he found these particularly appealing for his betting, some people berate the jumps confusing the horse falls and the jockey injuries possible with the competitiveness that is always present. Jump jockeys are heavyweights generally, or normally, and as they can only compete in one or two races a program the pressure is on to get into the places to make a living with a sling for winning or placing perhaps. They get 2.5% of the prizemoney, this may have increased now though, and they are good riders, tough men, who have respect and feelings for their horses. Often a runner will be eased out at the top of the straight because the rider can tell that it is not going to figure in the finish. The distance of the race, the weight carried and the jump is a severe multiplier for effort needed to win these races. There is often a short priced favourite, who scores above the average I believe and there is a gap in prices back to the other runners. Jumps racing will be phased out, people see the occasional fall and determine that every race must be like that, it's not though. One facet of jumps racing that is annoying is a big horse, having made a fortune for its owners is sold, commonly its a gelding or a barren mare, and although they have earnt and paid for their retirement they are put over the jumps and exposed to injury, and the injuries occasionally mean the horse has to be put down, euthanased, and the jockey is injured. My opinion, my opinion only is that these big runners have earnt a place in a paddock, please let them live in warmth and green pastures for the remainder of their days. I worked at a station once that had about 60 retired horses, they loved the life, you can tell when a horse is happy and content, it's behaviour becomes inquisitive and childish, horse childish anyway. Lew, on the other hand he has gone weeks without a bet, still enthusiastic with form study and watching races and reading everything about them but just not betting, he said he thought there was some corrupt activities going on, drivers liasing type of things, runners not running on their merit, but he stopped thinking that when there was just no evidence to support it. You can have those thoughts right but there needs to be some corroboration too, and perhaps some betting activity to support your thoughts. In fact, he says, there is about the tenth of suspect behaviour taking place that people imagine there is. Horses get prepared for races, to win races, they are secretly trained and schooled and run in races unsuitable for them all to get fitness and ability to perform on their day. Their day often coincides with other runners prepared likewise, that is racing, that's what trainers do and have always done, they don't get up at 2.00am because they like that, they get up and work their horses because the big punting day is approaching. Its good to be part of that, let me tell you, their expectancy and their vocal protests,vocalityness (yes,that) when you have their runner at a price less than they anticipate or more likely, some cowboy has also entered the ring and taken all the early odds on this one and another often, sometimes 30 bets at top odds on two horses and the owners and trainers are annoyed. Lew has a bet limit, there is a sign on the stand that directs punters to what that limit is, he may allow one bet to the limit from one punter and not want to write anymore for the runner until or unless he can write up some business for others. This annoys punters no end, but they can move next door and get set with that man too if they choose to, or Lew may invite them to come back in 10 minutes or so, just call by and see me and we will talk a price for you, often a price greater than what you got written up for now. Lew was famous for that, just harnessing or corralling all the ring money he could for runners in the market. Sounds dangerous but that is bookmaking accounting for you and that's why he has odds. He once said he has never assessed a horse as a certainty, never priced a horse at even money, 1 dollar out, one dollar back plus your stake. He has displayed runners at evens, lots of times, but his price, his mental calculated price is probably 3/1 or may be 5/1, its just that the public, the punters are wanting to take your odds, your evens when the chap next to you is in the red or further but not Lew, if it was a sizeable bet he would give you evens all day, seriously, while the other fielders are protecting themselves Lew can see other runners that are capable of winning this and is prepared to take your bet on that basis. He has had horses at short odds and told Stewart, and Stewart agreed that they should be 8's or 12/1 in actuality, read that again, he has written horses as bets at 3/1 when there assessed chance of winning are much longer, but the public wants to back them and he wants to lay them and the public will accept 3/1 or less about a runner that is middle pin or worse on the probability scale, calculated from exposed form of itself and the other runners in the race. That's why we have odds. But no, favourites were favourites because of the weight of money and because of their exposed form or the form of their rivals in todays race more like it. The favourite is the perceived best runner in the race, the should win runner against which all others are gauged. There are many reasons why favourites, runners with prices separate and remote from other runners, favourites at 1/1 and the next runner is 3/1 or more, good hard favourites lose because some of them are over rated, you got it wrong simply, the runner did not deserve to be favourite or the runner is having a bad day, it happens or your driver has had a brain fart, common. Those three items can account for 50% or more for failures with favourites. The other factor is that the other runners are under rated, you assessed them wrong and together they have ganged up to beat your runner essentially. Lew can price his races with this information in mind, he sets his prices then allows for errors, some runners get a lot of allowance and some get a little, his favourites as I have stated previously are rarely short short, they are fairly priced with a margin built in, this is something he can control, if you want to do business with us then you will accept the prices and the price on offer will be the best available in thering, the Tote might be better occasionally, but for true favourites, the out and out stand out runners can be beaten because you have not assessed their opposition correctly, or they have a bad day, or their driver has a bad day or you have your favourite over rated. Note that those two factors are vastly different, the over rated favourite and the runners opposing it that are under rated. You can skew the market and include most runners to run for you and still make 20% in each race, provided yours wins and this means you have to win 5, or 6 or 7 to accumulate 140% then lose a race to lose 100% so that you are 40% in front, can you do that? No punter can, a punter using his money will peel off and stop betting when he has lost, either one or three or some thing in a row. But a bookmaker fronts up every race because he can see and he knows that his money is going to come back to him, its just longevity, staying in the game for this day or a couple of days and you are in clover again. The best, and indeed the only way, to make money on the punt is to identify a couple of hundred true favourites every year, so twice a day or twice a meeting perhaps, you assessment is so good you can pick the true favourite, the deserving favourite and you back that at the best price, either with us because we have the best prices or unknown on the Tote (although Tote prices are widely known now but perhaps not quite so in the time line context of when Lew was bookmaking) Like share traders, some winning punters are privy to information not widely known otherwise and perhaps the price reflects this. A runner priced at above 7/1 say and less than 9/1 in 99% of occasions which is capable of causing a boilover may have ability or information attached to it that the ordinary public are not aware. Don't worry, the money coming for it will have it shorten into observation or a watch on it in the book, your assessment has put it out there at half the field odds, a chance but there is now something new that you don't know that causes money to run for it, these win sometimes but usually at half their quote or longer, so a 9/1 runner with the information traits described here might win at 5/1 or 5.5/1 because of the weight of money. Lew may have assessed this runner at those odds then built some comfort into the price. It works both ways too, a punter sees the 9/1 and takes it and we have secured the field money for that runner, chances are, and Lew would leave it at that price but if further money comes he might take some of the field money and bet back through the tote, Marie would leave her pencilling and go to the tote and back it at the $20 window. In actuality she might go into the tote building at a country course and the supervisor would accept the bet on her console, issue the ticket, they would talk about common interests for a time, and Marie would return, harsh but fair, and in the meantime I would call the bet and run the book and Lew would be Lew, standing above us all, looking around the ring, looking for a barracuda amongst the minows more like it. Its allowed, this built in safety measure in the prices, people more often now are pricing the runners on their merit, their exposed form and backing those over their assessed prices, so taking 2 or more a race with their money, in effect being a bookmaker with a bookmaker. It works for and adds to the enjoyment of the day at the races. It is easier to pick horses that will lose than those that will win. Universally, everybody who is serious about form study wil conclude that 2 or 3 or more runners will contend the end of the race and that any of those can win if the driver of it is capable of accepting a win. It is often brave decisions before the turn which determine the race result, an easy energy burn to get into position is often not attempted because the driver fears ridicule if his tactic does not work and the runner folds to run 4th or worse. The fact that it ran 4th may be because of his brave move early otherwise the animal is boxed up back in the ruck of struggling 6 wide after the fan, it looks impressive but it is so energy sapping, sometimes a runner cannot produce its form in subsequent races if it has been pushed wide and asked for past exhaustion exertion to provide a show for the owners and stewards. Horses that have figured in wide running and good times for the race distance can be a danger in later races. A punter may spend 10% or more of his punting bank backing runners from some personal belief he has, so he has backed his researched horses then he over spends on others that may just beat his selections. It all adds to a loss, or a spend not required. Its important to know how to bet, staying at a comfortable output level until a bank is retained or increased then having progressively bigger bets on subsequent races as the profits come in. Look for the best prices, always. And bookmaker prices may add 5% to your profit over time as compared to betting with the machine. I know I have written that long priced horses frequently pay better on the tote, but they have to win too and they don't do that commensurate with their odds, a 20/1 runner does not win every 20 races for instance, but every 170 races perhaps and in those 170 races there may be 4 runners all at 20/1, so , using my supplied figures your 20/1 runner wins after 680 tries, which is not strictly correct but it does show the folly of betting out past 9/1. Horse ratings, a numerical value calculated from past form for each runner may win you 50 betting units over time, over at least 150 bets minimum ans this will be for provincial, country and metro racing too. The betting market is the true representation of runners capabilities, sure there are exceptions where people know more than the market does but over time they lose too and the market continues with its relentless 112% book for most races over time. Often specialist skills can be used to select in particular races that are repeated from card to card, like a distance race for horses that have won more than 3 races liftetime, for instance but there are many more categories you can use. Often the runners in each race have contested previous races together so that form line ups all marry as well. But, as I said, it requires specialist skills. To summarise that big paragraph there: Favourites A: Don't win because of the jockeys, just bad or a bad decision, say 25%. Don't win because they don't desrve to be favourites, over rated, say 25%. Don't win because the horse is having a bad day, 20%. Don't win because the others are under rated, and not just one, a few of them are under rated by you in your form assessment 30% Form Efficiency: Others, not you though, may have access to information about a particular runner that is not reflected in its assessment nor its rating. Most probably the information is that the horse has regained it's A game and is serious about running. Of course this can affect other runners in the race too, they all get the urge to run career best on this day and none of this is reflected in their exposed form leading up to this run. Market Efficiency: The Market is efficient, all the variables, all the knowns and unknowns have been factored in and the market may be the best indicator of performance over a large number of races - it is you friend and is friendlier if arbitrage or even hedging is your thing. Todays Runners: it is easier to pick them to lose than to win. Suggestion, stay inside 9/1 ($10) runners in selecting. Favourites B: The easiest method may be identifying several hundred or so true favourites every year. True favourites are readily identified and will firm into favouritism. They firm into it. The Quiet Firmer: This runner is dropping price points during betting, from +7 until +2 minutes. There needs to be more written about these, more assistance in identifying them, they are invariably inside 9/1 at all time but the $250 to $1000 bets consistent with a stable attack will see them shorten, in league with a favourite often to mask its inwards progress. Sometimes, but this in not a rule, it is the second stable horse or the horse that the favourite jockey switched from for today run. It has to have a negative against it, it must have a minus aspect, a wide barrier, an apprentice, an apprentice in a non-claiming race, below the half field weight niche, a first time at the distance longer than its performance best, weight off. Essentially, this horse is the most dangerous to encounter, some fielders recognise them late and skip their price rolls several times, so a 7/1 (56/8) runner now might move to 32/8,(4/1) without a writing because the man has sighted it wallowing mid range even after a series of $100 writes. This busts his percentage too and his book cools for a while, the smarties go elsewhere for their 7/1 and he watches those movements while his book hovers around 140%, hardly competitive but its not a game it's a business. You wll write the bigger bets for the outsiders at this phase too, punters backing a couple for themselves will have seen the stagnation and calculated that now was the time to bet, before theirs shorten, besides that runner just had its price slashed and this might happen to mine. It's a business, creating a demand and providing a solution to the problem, salesmanship 101 almost. Money Management: Having a bet because you can but have not assessed this race. This is giving your money away. I mean I am urging you to lose your money scientifically, after earnest assessment of a runners merits and not because the horse is named after somebody in your family, or something like that. I had an Uncle who won a quadrella, a big one too, by single picking horses with strange names, no girls, no apprentices, and blue and gold in their colours. He chose Andrew, Carlotta, Raspadora, and Steven Burridge. He had family members Andrew, Dora, Carl and Steven (who rode How Good in the first leg from memory) and won 18000 dollars plus. He estimates he has since then spent that looking for the next winning combination using his selection method. Apparently he got 4 seconds next week and he spent about 300 dollars losing that. He backed Coolgardie in the Steeple at 50/1 and got $5.70 place when he had $500 on it. He lived in Coolgardie, he backed Cindys Mate in the Tatts Plate final, he is related to Cindy and had a winning saver on Captain Filou at 7/1 (paid $7.10) and he backed Airmond in the Hurdle which it won but he meant to back Blue Beacon but called it wrong at the death because he used to work with a Ron and Ron Hall rode this loser. Ratings: Calculated ratings perform similarly in all spheres, Metro, Country Provincial and are simply better than nothing, and probably better than betting a horse or jockey because you have some kinship with it or its name. Form: Be careful to apply study to all runners, not just those who finished within sight of the winner last start, other runs this campaign are important, rate this runner in those races and a bet may show despite a fail in its last few runs. I forgive one bad run in the last four, over any time span so that it may be a dipsy run before a spell. A good series of run andthen a spell can indicate a good horse too. There are so many variables, perhaps close to 88 that have been identified. Every indicator of a good run has an opposite indicator too. There has been talk, and study done, of horses cycling up after 3 runs. So a good run, followed by 2 more runs of moderate strength may mean the runner today is ready to repeat that good run again. I would be cautious with this approach though. The instigator of the theory now disclaims its strength and value but there is plenty of demonstrations of it in runners past form and there are often a 120 runners at a meeting. A runners true odds is often longer that it's indicated odds. It can be calculated of course, start with the number of runners in the race and assign a value to that, so 13 runners the odds of any winner is 12/1 - 1 dollar out, 12 dollars back plus your stake = $13. Divide 100 by your assessed div (100/13 = 7.7) and each runner is then assigned this per centage and each runner has percentage added or subtracted according to the list of value below. The equation always sums to 100 (per centage points). Its often more accurate, more real life I guess if you work on may be the best 8 in the field, and allocate 1% to each of the remainder, so form rank 9 to 13 each get a point, total 5% and this leaves you 95 % to be spreads amongst you other 8, there individual points modified by their form and other datas that affects them in todays race - see below. In effect each runner, the remaining 8 has an equal 95/8 = 11.87% of winning and the quotient 11.87 is modified and added to or subtracted from depending on the list below. In the Tatts Plate Final, mentioned above in relation to Uncle, the final calculations showed Captain Filou assessed at 25.6= $4.00, it won paying 7/1 and 7.10 on the Tote. Lascivia was priced at 5.70 and no profit possible, KaysiBoy likewise, Paignton at 6.90 was unders, Rangers Son and HowFast, Quiet Snort and Sandau were unders. Favourite Space Odyssey was the very proper example of a quiet shortener, see description above and was backed accordingly as a saver, it ran third, it was out of the mix formwise and somebody knew something and it dropped in price from the 17 minute mark and the odds call then and continued to shorten at each call, spaced about 2 minutes apart, it either maintained its price or shortened marginally. Space Odyssey raced again a few weeks later and won easily at 5/2 although its tote price was 6.10. Quiet shortener in this race was Ghost Dancer, it had contested the earlier race too, and Ghost Dancer finished just out of a place here but won at 7/2 next start. These are form features that will pay you back in spades, these horses that disappear in one race andthen front and win, more often than not, in a similar race a couple of weeks later. Its just part of the big picture of racing I assume. The distance a horse finishes from the winner is a strong indicator too, especialy over several runs. A horse with a beaten distance total of less than 7 lengths over 4 runs is a strong contender always. I allow a runner one bad run in that sequence, so I deduct the beaten lengths of that perceived worst run and total the remainder and work with the several in contention after that. Remember that horses winning and included in the sequence of 4 runs will have their winning margins deducted from the total, this can cause them to be strong contenders in the final summing of all beaten distances, remember tis as it can cloud theresult occasionally. Almost all races, at least those you would be doing form study on, wil have last start winners included. Winners last start is a strong indicator however two wins in four races can sometimes not be a strong indicator, although it is a good horse. To choose between finish position or beaten distance over the last four starts it has been found that the beaten distance figure is stronger formwise. It is sometimes not possible to get the beaten lengths, some form guides are wrong, and in the big scheme of things, what is a length, it is an observed estimate of where the horse was relative to the winner at the end of the race. To remove the estimate it is better to use the much more readily available finish position. This is again observed but the guessing of the distance from the winner has been removed. To use both values, the numerical finish position and the beaten distance, could be considered a strong value and, in fact, a runner finishing, say, fourth but within 3 lengths of the winner is a strong contender. Any runner finish within its numerical finish position can be treated likewise. So, an indicated 3rd numerical but within 2 lengths estimated or and indicated 6th but within 5 lengths estimated, those types of runners are strong formwise always. I could give examples of all of them but I think you understand now. Lew and Marie took early retirement and moved back to warm Queensland. Poor Marie, a mixed race girl from up that way had missed her island home, her church, her family, the sun. Lew and his manager Sid had made a few tough decisions regarding the fuel supply business and 7 service stations he had purchased, changing suppliers and re badging was part of this and by using a different holding company Lew did get freehold ownership of these sites. He sold these in subsequent years, Sid and his wife had retired from the business, and as always he maintained, it's just business. I see him occasionally, you have to travel to get there, he is still fit and shadow boxes and really is a multi millionaire in a poor mans t shirt, he is never far from the beach, has been taking drumming lessons. Stuart has died, and there is a story about him and his life, and more on that soon. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Thu Feb 2 19:24:21 2017 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 16:24:21 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 In-Reply-To: <000501d27d10$76be08c0$643a1a40$@bigpond.com> References: <000501d27d10$76be08c0$643a1a40$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <000001d27d2d$c17471c0$445d5540$@bigpond.com> If responding to either of these please snip everything and just include your question and perhaps the relevant sentence from the story Thanks Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 12:55 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Fri Feb 3 08:15:16 2017 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 08:15:16 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 In-Reply-To: <000001d27d2d$c17471c0$445d5540$@bigpond.com> References: <000501d27d10$76be08c0$643a1a40$@bigpond.com> <000001d27d2d$c17471c0$445d5540$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: Tony, I reckon you've got a book in you and unlike a lot of those racing reminiscence jobs, yours would be damned interesting. If you're looking to pay an editor vast sums of money, that's my hand up in the air. Sent with Mailtrack On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Tony Moffat wrote: > If responding to either of these please snip everything and just > include your question and perhaps the relevant sentence from the story > Thanks > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Tony > Moffat > Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 12:55 PM > To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - > Part 2 > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > http://www.avg.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tonymoffat at bigpond.com Fri Feb 3 10:36:02 2017 From: tonymoffat at bigpond.com (Tony Moffat) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 07:36:02 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 In-Reply-To: References: <000501d27d10$76be08c0$643a1a40$@bigpond.com> <000001d27d2d$c17471c0$445d5540$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <000401d27dad$1de5cf60$59b16e20$@bigpond.com> Saintly, no I am not seeking to publish, being the shy retiring type. Cheers though Tony Off picking the last of the cherries From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 5:15 AM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 Tony, I reckon you've got a book in you and unlike a lot of those racing reminiscence jobs, yours would be damned interesting. If you're looking to pay an editor vast sums of money, that's my hand up in the air. Sent with Mailtrack On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Tony Moffat > wrote: If responding to either of these please snip everything and just include your question and perhaps the relevant sentence from the story Thanks Tony -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com ] On Behalf Of Tony Moffat Sent: Thursday, February 2, 2017 12:55 PM To: 'AusRace Racing Discussion List' > Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kozza1950 at bigpond.com Fri Feb 3 12:24:53 2017 From: kozza1950 at bigpond.com (Roman) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2017 12:24:53 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Lew and Marie - a progressive bookmaker company - Part 2 In-Reply-To: <000401d27dad$1de5cf60$59b16e20$@bigpond.com> References: <000501d27d10$76be08c0$643a1a40$@bigpond.com> <000001d27d2d$c17471c0$445d5540$@bigpond.com> <000401d27dad$1de5cf60$59b16e20$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <006001d27dbc$5283f8f0$f78bead0$@bigpond.com> Hi Tony, A riveting read and I look forward to the next article. Although it is not as an easy task as the majority of people might first think I believe you have hit the nail right on target when you state that the only way to win on the punt is to identify true favourites or (my slant ?horses that should be favs in tight races?). I am 100% in this camp and this is forming the basis of my more serious betting these days. I am very hard on my potential best bets demanding all concerns over the usual form filters are addressed. I started off sometime back seeking all horses at $3.20 or less pre post as my starting point but have now reduced my search to $2.90 or less which helps time wise as I have less to study. I am using $ 3.00 to $4.80 for strong place bets but there are so many I am restricting the search to the better class races. A horse like Dodging Bullets at Caulfield becomes an immediate contender because I know him whereas others of the same price in perhaps a 2yo or three year old race over ground do not reflect the same confidence. However, I still am prepared to seek those bolters at 20/1 plus but, of course, at much lower amounts and consider them my fun bets. Strangely enough records I have just found recently buried away in the recesses of my computer show I am ok in the area about 2 years ago (220 odd selections). Recent arecorde attempts are in profit but only since Dec 31. Time will tell on those. Anyway great read Tony: keep them coming. I agree with Nick: far more interesting than some of the nonsense I have read in the past. Cheers Roman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at clarity.com.au Sun Feb 5 16:21:43 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 05:21:43 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Proposed " Everest" Race Message-ID: This is an interesting read if you haven't seen it: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-02/everest-sydney-horse-racing-michael-hutak/8236246 The concept of an owner buying a 'slot' in a race and then being able to trade it makes no sense to me. It seems to be more of a rich man's match race and hardly something I'd get too excited about given the conditions of entry will likely hopelessly skew the field and rule out many worthier contenders. You may as well spin a wheel at a casino if all you are concerned with is the payout and who can afford to buy a place in the field. Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at clarity.com.au Sun Feb 5 16:29:51 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 05:29:51 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] and another good read re foxtell and the Greene/Mundine fight Message-ID: <93daa9558a6c4fd398902c0d5f264ca9@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Hi All, And this will likely interest you as well: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/how-two-blokes-outsmarted-foxtel/8241800 on this front I'm usually very active on social media channels but will let that spillover to the list as well now if I think its relvent, hopefully to add some value back to the list to bring it back from the dormancy it was acquired over the past few years as I've turned my attention to other things. The idea that between them 2 guys can put up a feed to facebook and get 300,000 subscribers in a matter of minutes does my head in. Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Sun Feb 5 16:53:43 2017 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2017 13:53:43 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] and another good read re foxtell and the Greene/Mundine fight In-Reply-To: <93daa9558a6c4fd398902c0d5f264ca9@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Message-ID: <425e7fdb956adc0540350289f8fdd901d3957b5a@webmail.iinet.net.au> Doug, My posts have not made Ausrace for quite a while, so I sent to your email; hope it's current. We had the fight live in my local Bali pub? courtesy of them. Len Loveday ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "AusRace Racing Discussion List" To:"AusRace Racing Discussion List" Cc: Sent:Sun, 5 Feb 2017 05:29:51 +0000 Subject:[AusRace] and another good read re foxtell and the Greene/Mundine fight ? Hi All, ? And this will likely interest you as well: ? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/how-two-blokes-outsmarted-foxtel/8241800 [1] ? on this front I?m usually very active on social media channels but will let that spillover to the list as well now if I think its relvent, hopefully to add some value back to the list to bring it back from the dormancy it was acquired over the past few years as I?ve turned my attention to other things. The idea that between them 2 guys can put up a feed to facebook and get 300,000 subscribers in a matter of minutes does my head in. ? Doug ? Links: ------ [1] http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/how-two-blokes-outsmarted-foxtel/8241800 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at clarity.com.au Sun Feb 5 17:20:08 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 06:20:08 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive Message-ID: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> If you are wanting a quick way to see the posts on the list the archives (this years) can be found from the link on this page: http://www.ausrace.com/mailing-list/ausrace-archives/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 17:27:20 2017 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 17:27:20 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive In-Reply-To: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> References: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Message-ID: Any idea on passwords etc Doug? On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Doug Robb wrote: > If you are wanting a quick way to see the posts on the list the archives > (this years) can be found from the link on this page: > > > > http://www.ausrace.com/mailing-list/ausrace-archives/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > From finlayson at live555.com Sun Feb 5 17:31:12 2017 From: finlayson at live555.com (Ross Finlayson) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2017 22:31:12 -0800 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive In-Reply-To: References: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Message-ID: <3D6D318C-F3FF-4D9F-B47D-F53E3514D746@live555.com> I?ve been trying to set ?Digest Mode? for my subscription, but it doesn?t ?stick?. (Every time I check my settings, I see that I don?t have ?Digest Mode? set.) Is this a known problem? Ross. From doug at clarity.com.au Sun Feb 5 17:34:58 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 06:34:58 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive In-Reply-To: <3D6D318C-F3FF-4D9F-B47D-F53E3514D746@live555.com> References: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> <3D6D318C-F3FF-4D9F-B47D-F53E3514D746@live555.com> Message-ID: Mailman is pretty well debugged so I don't know why but I just set it manually for you Ross Doug -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Ross Finlayson Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2017 2:31 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive I?ve been trying to set ?Digest Mode? for my subscription, but it doesn?t ?stick?. (Every time I check my settings, I see that I don?t have ?Digest Mode? set.) Is this a known problem? Ross. From doug at clarity.com.au Sun Feb 5 17:38:16 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 06:38:16 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive In-Reply-To: References: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Message-ID: <2d349f337a3d4736a13347d974ebe56d@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Shouldn't need any passwords to access the archives so let me check this later from another machine and get back to you. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2017 2:27 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive Any idea on passwords etc Doug? On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Doug Robb wrote: > If you are wanting a quick way to see the posts on the list the > archives (this years) can be found from the link on this page: > > > > http://www.ausrace.com/mailing-list/ausrace-archives/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From doug at clarity.com.au Sun Feb 5 18:02:10 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 07:02:10 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive In-Reply-To: <2d349f337a3d4736a13347d974ebe56d@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> References: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> <2d349f337a3d4736a13347d974ebe56d@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Message-ID: <8f48912c00a34301b60ba05a394104ae@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Ahh I can see you need to use your list email address and list password for now (even though I've set the archives to public). Just go with that for now. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Doug Robb Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2017 2:38 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive Shouldn't need any passwords to access the archives so let me check this later from another machine and get back to you. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2017 2:27 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive Any idea on passwords etc Doug? On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Doug Robb wrote: > If you are wanting a quick way to see the posts on the list the > archives (this years) can be found from the link on this page: > > > > http://www.ausrace.com/mailing-list/ausrace-archives/ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From mikemcb at southcom.com.au Sun Feb 5 19:43:40 2017 From: mikemcb at southcom.com.au (mikemcb at southcom.com.au) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 08:43:40 -0000 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing lIst Archives etc Message-ID: <79279e4b17eea17ebd210d7f9f5292af.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> Hi Ausracers I have had email program problems and have been vacationing on my Indonesian Island paradise so this is a test email. Have checked out the Archives after following the reset Password link and changing some of my old preferences which all seemed to go very well for me. Must take this opportunity to congratulate Tony on his most interesting series of posts. Reminds me so much of the old Heffernan brothers from Deloraine in Tasmania who used to turn over millions with phone betting from all over the world back in the 50's to 70's. Mike. From mikemcb at southcom.com.au Sun Feb 5 19:45:59 2017 From: mikemcb at southcom.com.au (mikemcb at southcom.com.au) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 08:45:59 -0000 Subject: [AusRace] Mailing lIst Archives etc In-Reply-To: <79279e4b17eea17ebd210d7f9f5292af.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> References: <79279e4b17eea17ebd210d7f9f5292af.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> Message-ID: > Hi Ausracers > > I have had email program problems and have been vacationing on my > Indonesian Island paradise so this is a test email. > > Have checked out the Archives after following the reset Password > link and changing some of my old preferences which all seemed to go > very well for me. > Wow Doug & Co my post got back to me via the list just 45 seconds after I sent it. Mike. From mikemcb at southcom.com.au Sun Feb 5 20:08:35 2017 From: mikemcb at southcom.com.au (mikemcb at southcom.com.au) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 09:08:35 -0000 Subject: [AusRace] Banned from Betfair Message-ID: <14eb19a4aec4a31a0d3cee87b6048b59.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> Lindsay Thank you very much for your warning about their life ban policy. And as a matter of possible interest to some I have been working on a new Betfair Place bet only strategy over the last month which is looking quite promising. Today's results below and my best run to date is 49 winning bets in a row without a loss. I am interested to see if the formatting stands up or not. Mike. [CODE] TRACK RN TN HORSE CALC1 FPOS WINDIV PLCDIV SYSTEMNAME SUNSHINE COAST 1 5 Zukaz 68.33 1ST 1.9 1.2 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY SINGAPORE 2 1 One Kinabalu 60.54 3RD 1.1 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY SALE 8 4 Henry George 61.08 1ST 2.2 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 1 1 Shivarchi 63.11 4TH BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 2 1 Kentucky Fireball 65 1ST 1.7 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 3 1 Bel Maiya 66.32 2ND 1.7 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY MUDGEE 4 1 Sprezzatura 66.47 2ND 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 5 4 Derasa 61.58 2ND 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 7 1 Hot Dipped 63.33 1ST 1.7 1.2 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 8 7 Big Duke 62.78 2ND 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY BORDERTOWN 2 1 Battistoni 62.22 1ST 3.5 2.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY[/CODE] From mikemcb at southcom.com.au Sun Feb 5 20:11:47 2017 From: mikemcb at southcom.com.au (mikemcb at southcom.com.au) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 09:11:47 -0000 Subject: [AusRace] Formatting Message-ID: Try this one then I will give up if unsuccessful... TRACK RN TN HORSE CALC1 FPOS WINDIV PLCDIV SYSTEMNAME SUNSHINE COAST 1 5 Zukaz 68.33 1ST 1.9 1.2 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY SINGAPORE 2 1 One Kinabalu 60.54 3RD 1.1 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY SALE 8 4 Henry George 61.08 1ST 2.2 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 1 1 Shivarchi 63.11 4TH BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 2 1 Kentucky Fireball 65 1ST 1.7 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 3 1 Bel Maiya 66.32 2ND 1.7 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY MUDGEE 4 1 Sprezzatura 66.47 2ND 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 5 4 Derasa 61.58 2ND 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 7 1 Hot Dipped 63.33 1ST 1.7 1.2 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 8 7 Big Duke 62.78 2ND 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY BORDERTOWN 2 1 Battistoni 62.22 1ST 3.5 2.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 20:48:23 2017 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 20:48:23 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Banned from Betfair In-Reply-To: <14eb19a4aec4a31a0d3cee87b6048b59.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> References: <14eb19a4aec4a31a0d3cee87b6048b59.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> Message-ID: What was Lindsay's post? It hasn't come through. On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 8:08 PM, wrote: > Lindsay > > Thank you very much for your warning about their life ban policy. > > And as a matter of possible interest to some I have been working on > a new Betfair Place bet only strategy over the last month which is > looking quite promising. Today's results below and my best run to > date is 49 winning bets in a row without a loss. > > I am interested to see if the formatting stands up or not. > Mike. > [CODE] > TRACK RN TN HORSE CALC1 > FPOS WINDIV PLCDIV SYSTEMNAME > SUNSHINE COAST 1 5 Zukaz 68.33 1ST 1.9 1.2 BETFAIR > PLACE ONLY > SINGAPORE 2 1 One Kinabalu 60.54 3RD > 1.1 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY > SALE 8 4 Henry George 61.08 1ST 2.2 1.3 BETFAIR > PLACE ONLY > ALICE SPRINGS 1 1 Shivarchi 63.11 4TH > BETFAIR PLACE ONLY > ALICE SPRINGS 2 1 Kentucky Fireball 65 1ST 1.7 1.3 BETFAIR > PLACE ONLY > ALICE SPRINGS 3 1 Bel Maiya 66.32 2ND > 1.7 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY > MUDGEE 4 1 Sprezzatura 66.47 2ND > 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY > HOBART 5 4 Derasa 61.58 2ND > 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY > HOBART 7 1 Hot Dipped 63.33 1ST 1.7 1.2 BETFAIR > PLACE ONLY > HOBART 8 7 Big Duke 62.78 2ND > 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY > BORDERTOWN 2 1 Battistoni 62.22 1ST 3.5 2.3 BETFAIR > PLACE ONLY[/CODE] > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From kozza1950 at bigpond.com Sun Feb 5 21:06:47 2017 From: kozza1950 at bigpond.com (Roman) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 21:06:47 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Proposed " Everest" Race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601d27f97$90230890$b06919b0$@bigpond.com> Hi all, Absolute nonsense. Just a rich person's game. Does nothing for the average owner/trainer. Roman From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Doug Robb Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:22 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: [AusRace] Proposed " Everest" Race This is an interesting read if you haven't seen it: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-02/everest-sydney-horse-racing-michael-hu tak/8236246 The concept of an owner buying a 'slot' in a race and then being able to trade it makes no sense to me. It seems to be more of a rich man's match race and hardly something I'd get too excited about given the conditions of entry will likely hopelessly skew the field and rule out many worthier contenders. You may as well spin a wheel at a casino if all you are concerned with is the payout and who can afford to buy a place in the field. Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pfjg1g at gmail.com Sun Feb 5 21:09:16 2017 From: pfjg1g at gmail.com (Stuart Mackay) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 21:09:16 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Proposed " Everest" Race In-Reply-To: <003601d27f97$90230890$b06919b0$@bigpond.com> References: <003601d27f97$90230890$b06919b0$@bigpond.com> Message-ID: Does that mean you won't sponsor me and my horses? On 05/02/2017 9:07 pm, "Roman" wrote: > Hi all, > > Absolute nonsense. Just a rich person?s game. Does nothing for the average > owner/trainer. > > Roman > > > > *From:* Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] *On Behalf Of *Doug > Robb > *Sent:* Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:22 PM > *To:* AusRace Racing Discussion List > *Subject:* [AusRace] Proposed " Everest" Race > > > > This is an interesting read if you haven?t seen it: > > > > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-02/everest-sydney- > horse-racing-michael-hutak/8236246 > > > > The concept of an owner buying a ?slot? in a race and then being able to > trade it makes no sense to me. It seems to be more of a rich man?s match > race and hardly something I?d get too excited about given the conditions of > entry will likely hopelessly skew the field and rule out many worthier > contenders. You may as well spin a wheel at a casino if all you are > concerned with is the payout and who can afford to buy a place in the field. > > > > Doug > > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kozza1950 at bigpond.com Sun Feb 5 21:10:07 2017 From: kozza1950 at bigpond.com (Roman) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 21:10:07 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] and another good read re foxtell and the Greene/Mundine fight In-Reply-To: <93daa9558a6c4fd398902c0d5f264ca9@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> References: <93daa9558a6c4fd398902c0d5f264ca9@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Message-ID: <003b01d27f98$07338860$159a9920$@bigpond.com> Hi all, It was simply illegal, Doug. I don't think there's much else to say. Roman From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Doug Robb Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:30 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: [AusRace] and another good read re foxtell and the Greene/Mundine fight Hi All, And this will likely interest you as well: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/how-two-blokes-outsmarted-foxtel/82418 00 on this front I'm usually very active on social media channels but will let that spillover to the list as well now if I think its relvent, hopefully to add some value back to the list to bring it back from the dormancy it was acquired over the past few years as I've turned my attention to other things. The idea that between them 2 guys can put up a feed to facebook and get 300,000 subscribers in a matter of minutes does my head in. Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ozrob1711 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 6 02:12:49 2017 From: ozrob1711 at yahoo.com (Rob Creighton) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 15:12:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive In-Reply-To: References: <68b3a7ec3a65419a9c2f8c5cbb24cab5@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> <3D6D318C-F3FF-4D9F-B47D-F53E3514D746@live555.com> Message-ID: <269348533.1192375.1486307569247@mail.yahoo.com> Hey Doug,? I am having same issue?as Ross. I don't need you to go reset it, just send me the directions if that's easier. Cheers.?Rob Creighton From: Doug Robb To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive Mailman is pretty well debugged so? I don't know why but I just set it manually for you Ross Doug -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Ross Finlayson Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2017 2:31 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Mailing List Archive I?ve been trying to set ?Digest Mode? for my subscription, but it doesn?t ?stick?.? (Every time I check my settings, I see that I don?t have ?Digest Mode? set.) Is this a known problem? ??? Ross. _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ozrob1711 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 6 02:21:03 2017 From: ozrob1711 at yahoo.com (Rob Creighton) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 15:21:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AusRace] Proposed " Everest" Race In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <729244124.1211618.1486308063079@mail.yahoo.com> We just had the first of such events in the US. 12 horse field and really only two standouts - California Chrome and Arrogate. The latter won and the former didn't really?get competitive after apparently wrenching a knee early in the race (his final).? It did not do much for the little guys in the sport but it did manage to put racing on primetime Saturday afternoon TV which is reserved for few major days now. So, there could have been residual benefit to the sport and after all, the money ($12m) came form the owner buy-in so no adverse effect on the track purse account. Probably even increased it as a result of the handle generated. Rob From: Doug Robb To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 10:21 PM Subject: [AusRace] Proposed " Everest" Race ????????????? This is an interesting read if you haven?t seen it: ? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-02/everest-sydney-horse-racing-michael-hutak/8236246 ? The concept of an owner buying a ?slot? in a race and then being able to trade it makes no sense to me. It seems to be more of a rich man?s match race and hardly something I?d get too excited about given the conditions of entry will likely hopelessly skew the field and rule out many worthier contenders. You may as well spin a wheel at a casino if all you are concerned with is the payout and who can afford to buy a place in the field. ? Doug ? _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemcb at southcom.com.au Mon Feb 6 08:10:39 2017 From: mikemcb at southcom.com.au (mikemcb at southcom.com.au) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2017 21:10:39 -0000 Subject: [AusRace] Banned from Betfair In-Reply-To: References: <14eb19a4aec4a31a0d3cee87b6048b59.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> Message-ID: > What was Lindsay's post? It hasn't come through. > Norsaint I found it in the Archives here... http://ausrace.com/mailman/private/racing_ausrace.com/2017-February/000032.html Cheers Mike. From ral16763 at bigpond.net.au Mon Feb 6 10:27:44 2017 From: ral16763 at bigpond.net.au (Robert Aldridge) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:27:44 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Message-ID: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> Hi Mike, Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about " Banned from Betfair" as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair and would be interested in reading this archive post. When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and password(whatever the password is?). You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the screenshot of the message in a list message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kozza1950 at bigpond.com Mon Feb 6 10:41:21 2017 From: kozza1950 at bigpond.com (Roman) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:41:21 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> References: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <003d01d28009$5b582510$12086f30$@bigpond.com> Hi troops, Can you do the same for me Mike? Thanks Roman From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Robert Aldridge Sent: Monday, February 06, 2017 10:28 AM To: Ausrace Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Hi Mike, Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about " Banned from Betfair" as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair and would be interested in reading this archive post. When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and password(whatever the password is?). You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the screenshot of the message in a list message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrew1richman at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 11:13:34 2017 From: andrew1richman at gmail.com (ANDREW RICHMAN) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 11:13:34 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Betfair Automation Message-ID: Hi all, I have had a look and tried some Betfair bots and can't seem to find one that might do what I want. Examples of some of the things I would like to do:- 1/ Manually select say 3 horses and back one of them if it is BF favourite 10 seconds before the jump and manage the price until filled or take SP if not filled. 2/ Manually select say 3 horses and back any of them that are under $11 at 10 seconds before the jump and manage the price until filled or take SP if not filled. Have lots of similar things to do and often on the same market and the bots I have tried only seem to like to have one automated system on each market. I would like at the start of the day to set up system 1 for each race I choose and then set up system 2 and system 3 etc all independent of each other. Also would like to set the stake to have the ticket worth say $500 ie $250@$2 or $100@$5 etc. or preferably to have the ticket worth 4% of my bank. The bots seem to be either stake or liability. Also for some systems that are going well and the bets are getting bigger I would like it to dribble on the stake over the last minute say and take SP if not filled. Any thoughts? Cheers, Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Mon Feb 6 11:54:19 2017 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 11:54:19 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> References: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: Why did you get closed down Robert? (I can't log in to the archives for some reason and haven't seen Lindsay's post) On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Robert Aldridge wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about ? Banned from > Betfair? as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair > > and would be interested in reading this archive post. > > > > When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and > password(whatever the password is?). > > You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the > screenshot of the message in a list message. > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Mon Feb 6 12:22:54 2017 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 09:22:54 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <73a087901ee730a500541e846a507cbb16f7c843@webmail.iinet.net.au> ? Hi all, Just a note to say be very careful if you use self exclusion for Betfair, I have been banned permanently. A bit of background, there are three options for self exclusion, I took the lesser option because I wasn?t going to use the account for three months and have had some security issues with my computer. Betfair takes any form of self exclusion as ?you are a problem gambler!? I explained my reasons for the exclusion and was knocked back and told the decision will not be reversed and no further correspondence will be entered into. I was arbing, so was losing on Betfair and winning with the bookies that would still have me. In all the years I?ve been using Betfair, they?ve invited me to various functions which I attended, generated a massive amount of commission for them, and had a client manager contact me many times to make sure I was happy. I met various Betfair managers from both overseas and Tasmania. I should have just closed the account. Not happy Jan! Thought this might prevent others from being banned for life. Lindsay ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "AusRace Racing Discussion List" To:"Ausrace" Cc: Sent:Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:27:44 +1100 Subject:[AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Hi Mike, Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about ? Banned from Betfair? as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair and would be interested in reading this archive post. ? When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and password(whatever the password is?). You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the screenshot of the message in a list message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From punter at internode.on.net Mon Feb 6 15:18:54 2017 From: punter at internode.on.net (PhilM) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 14:48:54 +1030 Subject: [AusRace] Phil's post on bookies prices In-Reply-To: <688B8477-F312-4021-A2BD-120C7BFBA779@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7bfa19ac65375754a2371e7b17527ced947a24ea@webmail.internode.on.net> ? I'm more than confused with this new system.... I posted several times expecting to see it back in my inbox through Ausrace so assumed nothing was getting through, then Greg answers my post 16 days later. Where you found it Greg I don't know!?Added to that is a new e-mail system with Internode that has me tearing my hair out and it's even more confusing. OK I've replied to Greg and cc'd to racing at ausrace.com .... ?will it come back to me this time?!With the relation to Betfair prices, yeah I'm fully aware of that but I'm referring to a Wednesday afternoon opening odds for Saturdays races when Betfair has not even put up the fields. Even so, the amounts available on Betfair up to the official racecourse betting are so low except for the big races that the bookies take almost no notice of those early bets. As far as arbing goes, I wish I'd just taken the "back" side of the bet for years and I'd be far more in front. I now hope to grab the best early odds and at the very most now will lay back half with a minute or so before jump, and I'm now on the winning side with Betfair, but not by a lot! Even so I've made some horrendous bets early, such as taking 26.0 on Our Meteor on Wednesday first up and it going off at 170 on Betfair at the jump! When I stuff up like that, it's a waste of time even bothering to lay anything back!Regards, Phil M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Conroy" To:"Ausrace Racing" Cc:"PhilM" Sent:Fri, 27 Jan 2017 22:22:35 +1100 Subject:Phil's post on bookies prices Hi Phil, Insightful - you?re not too far wrong. I haven?t done the tests you have with multiple sample bets, but I know that Dynamic Odds is well and truly the tool of choice in most trading rooms.? What you probably missed is the relation of Betfair prices to the fixed prices. Have you watched that? I won?t give too much away here but that?s a very interesting dynamic and there are some bookies who will ensure they never offer higher than the last matched on BF. So that?s totally automated. And it?s all about reducing the ?arbers? opportunity. Similar happens with SportsBetting - ?where the margin is tighter so it?s even more important. Coys such as SportsRadar exist to provide those ?intel? feeds. Cheers, Greg ? FROM:?Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com [1]]?ON BEHALF OF?PhilM SENT:?Wednesday, 11 January 2017 3:31 PM TO:?AusRace Racing Discussion List SUBJECT:?Re: [AusRace] test ? ? Thanks Doug... hope this gets through to everyone, I'd love some feedback......... I posted this article a week ago at least but never saw it come back into my e-mail box as an Ausrace post, so I'll send again with some editing.... It's all hype as far as Centrebet accepting big bets go! William Hill/Centrebet, Crownbet, ?Classicbet, TopSport, Luxbet, Unibet all have computerised systems running now where they will never be top odds on any racehorse when betting first opens. ?My feeling is that they are working through Dynamic Odds. All of them wait for at least two bookies to put up their odds, almost always in order of?TAB.com.au [2]?which then get hit, with Sportsbet most times waiting to see their odds coming in second,. Bet365, who don't care less about either of them and throw up their own opinions, either before or after the other two, except trying to get on for more than pennies is the problem with them. TattsBet once were game to put up their prices at times before these three but that seems to have stopped in recent weeks. I have not followed Ladbrokes for a long time but they would sometimes put up odds first but the very instant another bookie put up their market Ladbrokes would quite often dramatically change their odds in close line with this bookie. I think it's getting to a point where it's like the stock market high frequency trading systems, these bookies are moving so rapidly to adjust their odds and I guarantee you that most times William Hill/ Centrebet, Crownbet, ?Classicbet, TopSport, Luxbet, Unibet, Ladbrokes are not taking a single bet, regardless of what early fluctuations you see from them through Dynamic Odds. You can never take notice of their odds changes as if they have taken big bets on these horses.... they have absolutely not! ? For example, Warwick Farm race 1 tlast Saturday?TAB.com.au [3]?puts up their odds... ? Single Bullet 2.1 Callmetrouble 8 Colesberg ?11 Radiant Choice 4.6 Dunaton 101 Te Amo ?3.5 Charlie Chap 26 ? Bet365 on this occasion had their odds up before TABcorp , a huge difference with some..... ? Single Bullet 1.4 Callmetrouble 8 Colesberg ?16 Radiant Choice 6.0 Dunaton 101 Te Amo ?6.0 Charlie Chap 101 ? Sportsbet came in later with this race.... ? Single Bullet 1.45 Callmetrouble 11 Colesberg ?14 Radiant Choice 6.0 Dunaton 101 Te Amo ?5.5 Charlie Chap 67 ? Crownbet and Centrebet/Hill both came in to the market when it settled a lot closer and their odds were both set around half way between these three above if there is variation, if prices were the same for the three they might give equal odds, but never higher odds. The very moment say Sportsbet shortens their odds... these list of followers immediately do the same without a bet being written, making sure they are under top odds or perfectly in between the high and low odds elsewhere! With Hill and Crown the change is almost instantaneous. They have zero opinion of their own, their computerised system has them smashing the odds without a single bet being struck. For a month or two Hill actually took on at least one horse in a race at both Melbourne and Sydney tracks and would be top odds, but that ended weeks ago now. I believe Sportsbet sometimes plays games with these followers, dropping the odds on something without a bet being taken and watch the rest follow like the sheep they are. I think there is big opportunity here for those that have an accurate assessment of any race to manipulate the odds and catch these weak mongrels out. I hope it's happening a lot already! Recently I did a little test with three bets on the same horse at the same time with Tabcorp, Luxbet, Topsport.. all to win under $100. They all came off the odds, and Hill, Crown and Unibet all dropped odds in unison without a bet being taken. Anyone would think there was a massive plunge in the early markets, not bets to win a total of under $300! So yeah, you might get on with Hill/Centrebet, but I assure you that you'll get better odds elsewhere at that very moment in time. ? Phil M Links: ------ [1] mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com [2] http://tab.com.au/ [3] http://tab.com.au/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikemcb at southcom.com.au Mon Feb 6 20:21:30 2017 From: mikemcb at southcom.com.au (mikemcb at southcom.com.au) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:21:30 -0000 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> References: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <6ee46792546edbdaf124bc0423db939f.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> Rob & Co You should be able to update your Ausrace login details to access the Archives. First go here and then click on the Password Remind button.... http://ausrace.com/mailman/private/racing_ausrace.com/ Then after you login in to Ausrace update your Password with a new one and ask your browser to remember it. Change any opf your preferences and Update by Saving them. Then you should have no trouble accessing the Ausrace Archives. And in any case here is Lindsay's disturbing post from Feb 1st.... Hi all, Just a note to say be very careful if you use self exclusion for Betfair, I have been banned permanently. A bit of background, there are three options for self exclusion, I took the lesser option because I wasn?t going to use the account for three months and have had some security issues with my computer. Betfair takes any form of self exclusion as ?you are a problem gambler!? I explained my reasons for the exclusion and was knocked back and told the decision will not be reversed and no further correspondence will be entered into. I was arbing, so was losing on Betfair and winning with the bookies that would still have me. In all the years I?ve been using Betfair, they?ve invited me to various functions which I attended, generated a massive amount of commission for them, and had a client manager contact me many times to make sure I was happy. I met various Betfair managers from both overseas and Tasmania. I should have just closed the account. Not happy Jan! Thought this might prevent others from being banned for life. Lindsay > Hi Mike, > > Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about " > Banned from > Betfair" as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair > > and would be interested in reading this archive post. > > > > When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and > password(whatever the password is?). > > You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the > screenshot of the message in a list message. > From doug at clarity.com.au Mon Feb 6 23:28:15 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:28:15 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <6ee46792546edbdaf124bc0423db939f.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> References: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> <6ee46792546edbdaf124bc0423db939f.squirrel@webmail.eftel.com.au> Message-ID: <1bf2030cd28f4ef79df96c48f37feb5d@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> I just updated the web site with the correct link that goes to the public archivespage: Its http://ausrace.com/pipermail/racing_ausrace.com/ Also FYI I had a lot of subscribers automatically flagged as 'bounced email' and most were bigpond.net.au addresses. I heard Telstra (and not iinet) had email problems over the week. I'll reset the count so they will start getting emails again and anyone can go to the archives to see what posts have come through. Once a bounce threshold is reached the list stops posting to that recipient. Doug -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of mikemcb at southcom.com.au Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 5:22 PM To: AusRace Racing Discussion List Subject: Re: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Rob & Co You should be able to update your Ausrace login details to access the Archives. First go here and then click on the Password Remind button.... http://ausrace.com/mailman/private/racing_ausrace.com/ Then after you login in to Ausrace update your Password with a new one and ask your browser to remember it. Change any opf your preferences and Update by Saving them. Then you should have no trouble accessing the Ausrace Archives. And in any case here is Lindsay's disturbing post from Feb 1st.... Hi all, Just a note to say be very careful if you use self exclusion for Betfair, I have been banned permanently. A bit of background, there are three options for self exclusion, I took the lesser option because I wasn't going to use the account for three months and have had some security issues with my computer. Betfair takes any form of self exclusion as "you are a problem gambler!" I explained my reasons for the exclusion and was knocked back and told the decision will not be reversed and no further correspondence will be entered into. I was arbing, so was losing on Betfair and winning with the bookies that would still have me. In all the years I've been using Betfair, they've invited me to various functions which I attended, generated a massive amount of commission for them, and had a client manager contact me many times to make sure I was happy. I met various Betfair managers from both overseas and Tasmania. I should have just closed the account. Not happy Jan! Thought this might prevent others from being banned for life. Lindsay > Hi Mike, > > Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about " > Banned from > Betfair" as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair > > and would be interested in reading this archive post. > > > > When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and > password(whatever the password is?). > > You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the > screenshot of the message in a list message. > _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com From doug at clarity.com.au Wed Feb 8 10:51:11 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 23:51:11 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> References: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> Message-ID: <35c52f909b5a4bf684b298730d92737c@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> The tope link at this page lets you through to the archives with no password required: http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com Doug From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Robert Aldridge Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 7:28 AM To: Ausrace Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Hi Mike, Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about " Banned from Betfair" as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair and would be interested in reading this archive post. When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and password(whatever the password is?). You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the screenshot of the message in a list message. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From norsaintpublishing at gmail.com Wed Feb 8 11:13:43 2017 From: norsaintpublishing at gmail.com (norsaintpublishing at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 11:13:43 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <35c52f909b5a4bf684b298730d92737c@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> References: <002901d28007$73f024d0$5bd06e70$@bigpond.net.au> <35c52f909b5a4bf684b298730d92737c@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Message-ID: Thanks Doug. I've just seen all these posts that aren't getting to me. Any idea why not? Since things changed towards the end of December my Ausrace folder hasn't had a post. The occasional one is slipping into my inbox but not many. Thanks, Nick On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Doug Robb wrote: > The tope link at this page lets you through to the archives with no password > required: > > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Robert > Aldridge > Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 7:28 AM > To: Ausrace > Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post > > > > Hi Mike, > > Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about ? Banned from > Betfair? as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair > > and would be interested in reading this archive post. > > > > When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and > password(whatever the password is?). > > You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the > screenshot of the message in a list message. > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Feb 8 11:30:08 2017 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 08:30:08 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2c357395aa7452a3a26fd98736e2387fc531203a@webmail.iinet.net.au> Ditto Doug, still no change here; even my own posts don't reach me.? LBL ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "AusRace Racing Discussion List" To:"AusRace Racing Discussion List" Cc: Sent:Wed, 8 Feb 2017 11:13:43 +1100 Subject:Re: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Thanks Doug. I've just seen all these posts that aren't getting to me. Any idea why not? Since things changed towards the end of December my Ausrace folder hasn't had a post. The occasional one is slipping into my inbox but not many. Thanks, Nick On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Doug Robb wrote: > The tope link at this page lets you through to the archives with no password > required: > > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Robert > Aldridge > Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 7:28 AM > To: Ausrace > Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post > > > > Hi Mike, > > Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about ? Banned from > Betfair? as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair > > and would be interested in reading this archive post. > > > > When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and > password(whatever the password is?). > > You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the > screenshot of the message in a list message. > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lloveday at ozemail.com.au Wed Feb 8 12:00:32 2017 From: lloveday at ozemail.com.au (L.B.Loveday) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2017 09:00:32 +0800 Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post In-Reply-To: <2c357395aa7452a3a26fd98736e2387fc531203a@webmail.iinet.net.au> Message-ID: <883ed9518dfe58e263a290ef6a6867de7ad464f1@webmail.iinet.net.au> ? But that one did! ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "L.B.Loveday" "AusRace Racing Discussion List" To:"AusRace Racing Discussion List" , Cc: Sent:Wed, 08 Feb 2017 08:30:08 +0800 Subject:Re: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Ditto Doug, still no change here; even my own posts don't reach me.? LBL ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "AusRace Racing Discussion List" To:"AusRace Racing Discussion List" Cc: Sent:Wed, 8 Feb 2017 11:13:43 +1100 Subject:Re: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post Thanks Doug. I've just seen all these posts that aren't getting to me. Any idea why not? Since things changed towards the end of December my Ausrace folder hasn't had a post. The occasional one is slipping into my inbox but not many. Thanks, Nick On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Doug Robb wrote: > The tope link at this page lets you through to the archives with no password > required: > > > > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of Robert > Aldridge > Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 7:28 AM > To: Ausrace > Subject: [AusRace] Cannot See Mike's Archive Post > > > > Hi Mike, > > Could you take a screen shot of your linked archive post about ? Banned from > Betfair? as I had my Betfair account closed in the past by Betfair > > and would be interested in reading this archive post. > > > > When I click on the link it says to imput my email address and > password(whatever the password is?). > > You can send it to me off list if it is not possible to insert the > screenshot of the message in a list message. > > > _______________________________________________ > Racing mailing list > Racing at ausrace.com > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com > _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at clarity.com.au Thu Feb 9 02:04:10 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2017 15:04:10 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Formatting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7e896758c3514b89a01bf4b0884f9f55@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Just testing this for Mike. I've loosened up the post filters so we should be able to post spreadsheets and/or pdf files around to make it easier to read these sorts of posts. Also html mail should work as well so you can post a more neatly formatted email rather than just plain text. This message is html format with image embedded so you can see what I mean. Re Len's posts if they are in the archive they will have been sent out so maybe check junk email (or spam) on your local mailer. I did see one post Len that was held because it was over the size limit of 250k but I can increase this to 500k next time I look at the defaults. Also a lot of addresses have triggered automatic block to send any more mail (since the email addresses seem to be dead). This is an example below. If your email is bouncing because the ISP is down and its bounced 5 posts back its blocked and I will go through and delete off the list. The subscribe page is on the website if you want to check you are subscribed at any time, Doug [cid:image001.png at 01D2825F.A3AA80D0] -----Original Message----- From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of mikemcb at southcom.com.au Sent: Sunday, 5 February 2017 5:12 PM To: Ausrace Mailing List Subject: [AusRace] Formatting Try this one then I will give up if unsuccessful... TRACK RN TN HORSE CALC1 FPOS WINDIV PLCDIV SYSTEMNAME SUNSHINE COAST 1 5 Zukaz 68.33 1ST 1.9 1.2 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY SINGAPORE 2 1 One Kinabalu 60.54 3RD 1.1 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY SALE 8 4 Henry George 61.08 1ST 2.2 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 1 1 Shivarchi 63.11 4TH BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 2 1 Kentucky Fireball 65 1ST 1.7 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY ALICE SPRINGS 3 1 Bel Maiya 66.32 2ND 1.7 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY MUDGEE 4 1 Sprezzatura 66.47 2ND 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 5 4 Derasa 61.58 2ND 1.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 7 1 Hot Dipped 63.33 1ST 1.7 1.2 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY HOBART 8 7 Big Duke 62.78 2ND 1.4 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY BORDERTOWN 2 1 Battistoni 62.22 1ST 3.5 2.3 BETFAIR PLACE ONLY _______________________________________________ Racing mailing list Racing at ausrace.com http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/racing_ausrace.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 37327 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mmcb.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 192232 bytes Desc: mmcb.pdf URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mm.xlsx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet Size: 10651 bytes Desc: mm.xlsx URL: From RaceStats at hotmail.com Tue Feb 14 12:09:05 2017 From: RaceStats at hotmail.com (Race Stats) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 01:09:05 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Josh Cartwright Message-ID: Here?s the replay of the race that Josh Cartwright claims to be a brain fade. He?s on Senior Council at Morphettville. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDr_nTnd5vQ As he?s pleaded guilty and undergoing ?appropriate? counselling, we punters are kept in the dark as to the real reason for his actions. This is not a brain fade, this is something far worse. For the record, I did not bet in the race. Lindsay. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From swallis at bigpond.com.au Wed Feb 15 17:01:22 2017 From: swallis at bigpond.com.au (swallis at bigpond.com.au) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:01:22 +1100 Subject: [AusRace] Have I got a genuine message? Message-ID: Hi Doug, I?ve got a message, purportedly from Ausrace, saying I've been suspended for too many bounces. As i don?t recall anything bouncing, can you confirm it?s a genuine message & not some Phishing expedition? Thanks Steve Wallis --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From doug at clarity.com.au Wed Feb 15 23:54:00 2017 From: doug at clarity.com.au (Doug Robb) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 12:54:00 +0000 Subject: [AusRace] Have I got a genuine message? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90480f4b214543d2bf5633f5a14a36aa@syd1exchpmbx2.cloud.local> Hi Steve, Yes this is the list software and I think this may have been something to do with a bigpond email outage some time back. I saw almost all the bigpond addresses were shut off with too many bounced (5 returned messages) and that could have happened over a single outage. If you do still keep getting these message let me know. I?ve re-enabled all bigpond addresses now. Doug From: Racing [mailto:racing-bounces at ausrace.com] On Behalf Of swallis at bigpond.com.au Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 2:01 PM To: AusRace Subject: [AusRace] Have I got a genuine message? Hi Doug, I?ve got a message, purportedly from Ausrace, saying I've been suspended for too many bounces. As i don?t recall anything bouncing, can you confirm it?s a genuine message & not some Phishing expedition? Thanks Steve Wallis [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif] Virus-free. www.avast.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: