[AusRace] Widest runner
Laurie i8work at iinet.net.auTue Mar 2 03:15:46 CST 2010
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You're working with a biased sample though, it's based on the horses you've backed, and I'm reading this as not "inrunning". Thus more pertinent, are you saying "I prefer my selection to come from off the pace/lead, I find if my selection has an ideal run to the turn and gets a nice run into the race after straightening I am not confident it will use that saved energy to go to the line or "saved energy" ain't as good as it's made out to be or Christ I'm unlucky my horse that get an ideal run never seem to get out"? Laurie On Tue Mar 2 15:23 , 'r' <speedpcs at bigpond.net.au> sent: >Yes i agree > >All i can say is, if i back a horse and its widest > into the straight, i am very confident of victory, even >if its not untill the final 50 or 100m that it finally steams >home. > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >To: "'r'" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au>; "'AusRace Mailing List'" >ausrace at ausrace.com> >Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 3:54 PM >Subject: RE: [AusRace] Widest runner > > >> On the other hand - wind resistance and extra distance >> >> Its easy for us riders in the stand - one out and one back and wait until >> the perfect moment to pull out >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] On >> Behalf Of r >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2010 9:15 AM >> To: r; AusRace Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Widest runner >> >> In regad to this post, the agument is based on a few points >> >> #1. The horse that is behind other horses, even by >> lengths, may see no point in trying to go faster. >> >> #2. The horse that is within a pack may be reluctant to run >> faster than the pack, putting it safety first, as in the wild. >> (all herds, bird, fish seemto move in together in patterns) >> >> #3. The horse that is tired may be loking for excuses ( such as >> a horse in front of it) not to run. >> >> Thus, the horse that is widest into teh straight, may win by default...... >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "r" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au> >> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:58 AM >> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Widest runner >> >> >>> This is theory and proves nothing unless taken much further.... >>> >>> This may be some research that may bring some >>> intersting results. >>> >>> Or may even be a consideration for jockeys (im sure they >>> allready know this but some facts may be good) >>> >>> * What increase in chance, does the racehorse have, >>> if its the widest runner entering the straight? >>> >>> To be calculated by >>> >>> (example) >>> >>> 10 x 10 horse feilds >>> >>> 100 horses, 10 chances to win >>> >>> If 1 wins = same chance of widest runner as others >>> >>> If 2 win = doubles the widest runners chance of winning >>> >>> If 3 win = triples the widest runners chance of winning >>> >>> If the results show it triples the chance or better, it may in theory >>> be used as a punters tool IMO. >>> >>> By not just trying to calculate the winner, but instead also try to >>> caculate thehorse that comes slightly off the pace, and will be the >>> widest onturn? (something that has ability, form, a turn of foot, >>> not an insidebarrier etc) >>> >>> ***Of course initial results will not be conclusiove or prove >>> anything alone,as they have a bias, as horses travelling well and >>> off the pace who more likely to be taken wide and win........ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "r" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au> >>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:21 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Thinking jockey- no it isn't the last word >>> >>> >>>> Your persistant, BUT i wont let you stray from the truth, >>>> lets look at the "original instruction" instread of trying to >>>> adjust it to favour a argumnet. >>>> >>>> "let her jump and settle where she was happy, but under >>>> no circumstances to drop her out last." >>>> >>>> Thats the instruction.........and it is a clear contradiction....... >>>> >>>> (the fact that you tried bleow to add the word "try" to the >>>> instruction, in effect also appears to confirm this is also >>>> your opinion)) >>>> >>>> Jockeys may be professional, but they are not magicians....... >>>> >>>> The trainer/owner may be the dumb one, to give such an >>>> instruction, and then *complain that both sides of the >>>> contradiction could not be achieved under all circumstances. >>>> >>>> Take it as a positive, it is clear that giving instructions is not >>>> as straight forwad as it appears. May i kindly suggest f there >>>> is an onpace bias, and you dont want your horse racing far >>>> off the pace regardless, under no circumstances give the >>>> instruction "let the horse settle where it wants" regardless >>>> of whatever other instructions you may include >>>> >>>> the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>> To: "'r'" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au>; "'AusRace Mailing List'" >>>> ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:39 PM >>>> Subject: RE: [AusRace] Thinking jockey- no it isn't the last word >>>> >>>> >>>>> So all jockeys are so dumb that instructions of more than two words >>>>> should >>>>> never be given? >>>>> >>>>> What is hard to understand about, "Let it settle where it wants to if >>>>> possible, BUT on NO account let it end up at the back"? >>>>> >>>>> If a jockey can't understand that, and remember it, I suggest you >>>>> should >>>>> get >>>>> another one. They are supposed to be trained professionals. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of r >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2010 6:41 AM >>>>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Thinking jockey >>>>> >>>>> "let her jump and settle where she was happy, but under no >>>>> circumstances >>>>> to >>>>> drop her out last." >>>>> >>>>> So the jockey followed his instructions by letting the horse settle >>>>> where >>>>> it >>>>> >>>>> choose in front of a few (but apparently then stuffed up when others >>>>> fell >>>>> back, pushing him back to last) >>>>> >>>>> PLUS if the trainer said "let the horse settle were it chooses", it >>>>> sound >>>>> like he wants it quitely ridden mid race, this considered, and trying >>>>> to >>>>> ride to instructions, why would the jockey then try and boot it up >>>>> early >>>>> in >>>>> the race, with a wide run to gather in the leaders before the turn, >>>>> with >>>>> a >>>>> run around the entire feild!!!!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> AND what if the horse looked like droppping out to last just one or two >>>>> strides after the jump? and as per sinstructions the jockey then rode >>>>> it >>>>> hard to avoid this, and it then took off and actually led? By the >>>>> "rider >>>>> in >>>>> the stand" several hundred metres away, he has not followed his >>>>> instructions >>>>> >>>>> at all, as his pushed his horse to take a prominent leading position , >>>>> when >>>>> he stirred it up totally against instructions, as he was told to let it >>>>> settle were the horse chooses!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> Summing up, it may be OK to give contradictory instructions to a >>>>> jockey, >>>>> but >>>>> >>>>> if the instructions contradict, so may the ride that follows those very >>>>> instructions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: "John Thompson" jmtclarence at yahoo.com> >>>>> To: ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 10:35 PM >>>>> Subject: [AusRace] Fw: AusRace Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Excuse me if I appear to be flogging a dead horse, but since at least a >>>>> couple of people, whose opinions I respect, think that I might be >>>>> imagining >>>>> the situation, I have decided to let everybody 'enjoy' the effect of >>>>> 100+ >>>>> returns on the Digest, including the aforementioned 'smiley' :) . >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> John T >>>>> >>>>> --- On Tue, 2/3/10, ausrace-request at ausrace.com >>>>> ausrace-request at ausrace.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: ausrace-request at ausrace.com ausrace-request at ausrace.com> >>>>>> Subject: AusRace Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7 >>>>>> To: ausrace at ausrace.com >>>>>> Received: Tuesday, 2 March, 2010, 3:11 AM >>>>>> Send AusRace mailing list submissions >>>>>> to >>>>>> ausrace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' >>>>>> to >>>>>> ausrace-request at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> ausrace-owner at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >>>>>> specific >>>>>> than "Re: Contents of AusRace digest..." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Empty posts - and do they make the >>>>>> most noise? (John Thompson) >>>>>> 2. Re: FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> (John Doepel) >>>>>> 3. Re: Empty posts - and do they make the >>>>>> most noise? (John Doepel) >>>>>> 4. Re: FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> (r) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 1 >>>>>> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:46:17 -0800 (PST) >>>>>> From: John Thompson jmtclarence at yahoo.com> >>>>>> Subject: [AusRace] Empty posts - and do they make the most >>>>>> noise? >>>>>> To: ausrace at ausrace.com >>>>>> Message-ID: 49410.75250.qm at web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >>>>>> >>>>>> I receive the Digest form of Ausrace because I do not have >>>>>> the time available to constantly monitor the back-and-forth >>>>>> of individual posts. When I have the time, I go to the >>>>>> current archives to keep abreast of ongoing discussions. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is not obvious in an individual post because one is >>>>>> unlikely to scroll through masses of old posts in the >>>>>> thread, but it is possible to insert scores (or even >>>>>> hundreds) of blank lines at the bottom of the thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Today is the first day of March. It is only 6.00 p.m. >>>>>> Central Summer Time and I have already received my 6th >>>>>> Digest for March. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do any other Digest recipients object to 'r'fwit's childish >>>>>> insertion of 124 blank lines and 1 line with a smiley face >>>>>> at line 111 of 125? It is at odds with the spirit in which >>>>>> Ausrace is intended to be conducted. Every time someone >>>>>> responds to earlier messages in the thread, another 125 >>>>>> lines are added to the Digest. This is why I cut and paste >>>>>> my responses. >>>>>> >>>>>> Although this behaviour does nothing but confirm my >>>>>> incredibly low opinion of 'r'fwit, I would be just as >>>>>> scathing of anyone else on the list, in the unlikely event >>>>>> that they would be so puerile This sort of behaviour has the >>>>>> capacity to destroy Ausrace as a viable forum. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any opinions? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> John T >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: This is by no means the first time he has indulged in >>>>>> this behaviour. JT >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 2 >>>>>> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 18:10:00 +0800 >>>>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> Message-ID: 68BA6586316E441F81D9CE12525DFC62 at FYNN> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; >>>>>> charset="us-ascii" >>>>>> >>>>>> Your posts are always acceptable when you are not being >>>>>> personal. >>>>>> >>>>>> My doomed/ will not win was pedantism. >>>>>> >>>>>> My point was that all horses are not equal in the way they >>>>>> should be ridden >>>>>> - and that the tactics should depend on the chance of a >>>>>> horses winning, >>>>>> which can be summed up by its odds. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is the same for all sports. >>>>>> >>>>>> In a final, if down, go for broke: If ahead play >>>>>> steadily. >>>>>> >>>>>> All horse races should be finals, unless they are being >>>>>> used as preparation, >>>>>> which, in the owner's eyes, was apparently not the case. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of r >>>>>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 3:16 PM >>>>>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> if i take out the word doomed, is my quote more >>>>>> acceptable? >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:03 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > So you believe in predestination?! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I agree that most horses do not win, but that is >>>>>> different. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> > Behalf Of r >>>>>> > Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 2:59 PM >>>>>> > To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ***Most horses may be doomed to lose >>>>>> > based on this simple fact, only one horse >>>>>> > can win each race outright!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> > To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:32 PM >>>>>> > Subject: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Most horses are not doomed to lose. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> The tactics and mind set should depend on a >>>>>> horse's chances. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> A red hot should not try for a miracle run through >>>>>> the field. Nor should >>>>>> >> it >>>>>> >> be allowed to have a speed duel in front. If >>>>>> it is as good as its price >>>>>> >> it >>>>>> >> should be able to stay out of trouble and go >>>>>> around the field and win >>>>>> >> easily. If it is caught out the back in a >>>>>> slow race it should be able to >>>>>> >> round them up early and not get caught flat >>>>>> footed. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> A 20/1 shot will not win if it does the >>>>>> above. It will need to be in >>>>>> >> front >>>>>> >> and steal the race or go for the miracle run. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> A competitive horse that is not a hot fav will >>>>>> also not be able to come >>>>>> >> from >>>>>> >> the back in a slow race and thus must be >>>>>> positioned well to give it every >>>>>> >> chance. I put John's horse in this >>>>>> category. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> It all depends on the race pace. If the >>>>>> jockey can't judge pace, try to >>>>>> >> get >>>>>> >> one that can. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Cheers, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> John >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: r [speedpcs at bigpond.net.au','','','')">speedpcs at bigpond.net.au] >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Unless the jockey does something obviously wrong, >>>>>> i think >>>>>> >> us spectators should a take it easy on them, after >>>>>> all, most horses >>>>>> >> in any race are doomed to lose regardless of the >>>>>> jockey's ride, >>>>>> >> so why take the easy target? >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> >> To: "'r'" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au>; >>>>>> "'AusRace Mailing List'" >>>>>> >> ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:03 PM >>>>>> >> Subject: RE: [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> Of course >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> On >>>>>> >>> Behalf Of r >>>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 10:36 AM >>>>>> >>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Of course a jockey should not ride against >>>>>> instructions >>>>>> >>> for no reason >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> BUT KEEP IN MIND IT IS THE HORSE THAT IS >>>>>> DOING >>>>>> >>> THE RUNNING, NOT THE JOCKEY!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> If his instructed to race at the rear, and the >>>>>> horse (note the horse, >>>>>> >>> not the jockey) bounds out 3 lengths in front >>>>>> in a 900m race that >>>>>> >>> no one else wants to lead in (as per >>>>>> instructions), he would be >>>>>> >>> silly to then ease and race back at the >>>>>> rear all being equal >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> And if his asked to race on the pace, but cops >>>>>> a knock early, or is >>>>>> >>> slow away, he may also be considered silly to >>>>>> ask his horse to >>>>>> >>> make two runs in a race, or one very >>>>>> long sustained run, by asking >>>>>> >>> it to go to early so its up on the pace by the >>>>>> home turn....... >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>> From: "r" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au> >>>>>> >>> To: "AusRace Mailing List" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> OK, first up, if a horse is slow away and >>>>>> is pulled to >>>>>> >>>> the rear of the feild, that is already >>>>>> approx 200m gone. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Any decent joceky will then settle his >>>>>> mount for a couple >>>>>> >>>> of strides and then pogress forward if >>>>>> that is his wish. >>>>>> >>>> (and horses cover plenty of ground per >>>>>> stride) >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> That means the jockeys going to be onto >>>>>> the long 1/2 turn >>>>>> >>>> as he commences his run, and remember the >>>>>> horse already >>>>>> >>>> lacked early speed from the gate, so dont >>>>>> make the >>>>>> >>>> presumption that it will get to the front >>>>>> with ease, >>>>>> >>>> and even cross the field to lead. This is >>>>>> a 1300m sprint, >>>>>> >>>> not a 2600m canter and sprint >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> A good jockey weighs up all of the >>>>>> potential outcomes >>>>>> >>>> of any move, and will not base a decision >>>>>> >>>> and the rewards of a dream run, exactly as >>>>>> he wishes, or >>>>>> >>>> as you described >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> You ask, Should a jockey ride agaisnt >>>>>> instructiions? >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Its a sprint race, sometimes your horse is >>>>>> not on the ball, >>>>>> >>>> or does not have the speed of the others >>>>>> on the day >>>>>> >>>> , this is obviously the overwhelming >>>>>> factor of where a horse >>>>>> >>>> will settle in a sprint race that wants to >>>>>> race on the pace >>>>>> >>>> (just like most of the other horses in the >>>>>> race) >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Should a jockey be encouraged to use >>>>>> common sense >>>>>> >>>> when things dont go as planned??? >>>>>> according to the individual factors >>>>>> >>>> of each horse, track and race? >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Im not sure jockeys should be to blame for >>>>>> horses jumpring slow, >>>>>> >>>> getting bumped and caugth behind a slowie >>>>>> on jumping, OR be >>>>>> >>>> blamed for deciding not to make a run >>>>>> 1000m out, on a >>>>>> >>>> turning track, in a sprinters race, on a >>>>>> horse that aleady showed >>>>>> >>>> a lack of dash oout of the gates. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Im not quite sure non riders should be >>>>>> using a text >>>>>> >>>> book-like mentality to work out how >>>>>> jockeys should ride >>>>>> >>>> there races.... >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> I guess summing up........How a horse is >>>>>> performing on the >>>>>> >>>> day may be considered more relevent to the >>>>>> jockey on its back >>>>>> >>>> witnessing that first hand, compared to >>>>>> what or how the horse >>>>>> >>>> was raced in the past, as expected from >>>>>> spectators several hundred >>>>>> >>>> metres away in the stand IMO. >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Surely, common sense must be the over >>>>>> riding factor in any jockeys >>>>>> >>>> decision making....... >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Race 3 >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> r, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I agree with your basic theories, but >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> >>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> r, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I agree with your basic theories, but >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> If the pace is slow, then it does not >>>>>> take the sprint effort to go >>>>>> >>>>> forward >>>>>> >>>>> and the horse will be able to reach >>>>>> the front and cross before much of >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>> turn has been used - so maybe 1/8th of >>>>>> a turn used. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> You did not answer the question of >>>>>> should the jockey, all being equal, >>>>>> >>>>> obey >>>>>> >>>>> instructions? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> (I have a jockey rating file that fell >>>>>> off the back of a truck that >>>>>> >>>>> puts >>>>>> >>>>> this particular one at dead average >>>>>> (as is Plumb, who rode the winner >>>>>> >>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>> last) at larger than little B.) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>> Behalf Of r >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> >>>>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> JD >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> If this horse is slow out of the gates >>>>>> and was pulled >>>>>> >>>>> back to clear itself of slowies in >>>>>> front of it, its going to take >>>>>> >>>>> a period of time for it to get >>>>>> balanced and start making >>>>>> >>>>> ground again >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> There is no doubt this will mean >>>>>> making ground out wide around >>>>>> >>>>> the turn, now will the horse >>>>>> conforably do this considering its lack >>>>>> >>>>> of early pace? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Note, the turn at little B is a 1/2 >>>>>> turn, not a quarter turn as with >>>>>> >>>>> many sprint races. (getting caught >>>>>> wide on a 1/2 turn is far worse >>>>>> >>>>> than a 1/4 turn. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Should we consider a horses galloping >>>>>> thershold here, that is its max >>>>>> >>>>> speed, which once elasped, leaves it >>>>>> galloping at a speed that is >>>>>> >>>>> no longer efficient. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> How does a horse reach this speed >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> #1. By being pushed harder than it >>>>>> naturaly wants to gallop >>>>>> >>>>> #2. By being pushed wide around turns >>>>>> (it has to gallop faster just to >>>>>> >>>>> keep >>>>>> >>>>> pace) >>>>>> >>>>> #3. By being asked to make ground from >>>>>> the rear >>>>>> >>>>> #4. By being asked to make ground >>>>>> without first being able to balance >>>>>> >>>>> #5. By being asked to make ground in a >>>>>> *sprint race where horse will >>>>>> >>>>> already >>>>>> >>>>> be close to the max speed despite what >>>>>> appearence or times may tell >>>>>> >>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> #5,. A combination of any of the above >>>>>> factors only compounds this. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> (In contrast, going back to last on a >>>>>> turning track, riding patiently, >>>>>> >>>>> waiting for the long hone straight, >>>>>> can help combat this.) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Once a horse reaches this thershold, >>>>>> for every length it makes up, >>>>>> >>>>> it loses many more in saved energy, >>>>>> and make no mistake, >>>>>> >>>>> this will cost it later in the race, >>>>>> especialy if used up so early in >>>>>> >>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>> race, or >>>>>> >>>>> during a sustained run. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Now to expect a *sprint horse to make >>>>>> a run from 1000m out in a sprint >>>>>> >>>>> race >>>>>> >>>>> around a long turn, to enable it to >>>>>> come from last to sit behind the >>>>>> >>>>> leaders >>>>>> >>>>> wide, >>>>>> >>>>> and then expect it to continue to go >>>>>> on and win the race with a long >>>>>> >>>>> straight >>>>>> >>>>> , would need a horse that was 1 or 2 >>>>>> classess above the opposition. >>>>>> >>>>> Why rely on the horse being a class >>>>>> above to win a race???? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> IMPORTANT, Keep in mind 1300m horses >>>>>> are *sprinters, they are not made >>>>>> >>>>> to produce long sustained runs like a >>>>>> stayer may. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> A sprinter can put in a short sprint >>>>>> with little effort, but ask it to >>>>>> >>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>> one 1000m >>>>>> >>>>> run and your simply asking to >>>>>> much.........and by expecting it to make >>>>>> >>>>> ground >>>>>> >>>>> from last around a long turn you are >>>>>> asking for exactly this. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Aslo jockeys are unlikely to risk >>>>>> being boxed in by letting a horse >>>>>> >>>>> cruise >>>>>> >>>>> up >>>>>> >>>>> and sit with cover behind the leaders >>>>>> approaching the home turn, a >>>>>> >>>>> jockey >>>>>> >>>>> making such a run can be expected to >>>>>> be pushed even wider, and may >>>>>> >>>>> have >>>>>> >>>>> to race without cover to protect that >>>>>> position or risk getting boxed. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> He also increase the risk of producing >>>>>> a huge wall of horses of which >>>>>> >>>>> he >>>>>> >>>>> will be >>>>>> >>>>> widest around a turn. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Also, what happens if you make your >>>>>> run early, and you get bloacked or >>>>>> >>>>> have >>>>>> >>>>> to ease, thats it, your wide and goign >>>>>> backwards, and then want to >>>>>> >>>>> start >>>>>> >>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>> second run again.....!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> This is why most jockeys consider it >>>>>> standard to leave there run till >>>>>> >>>>> later, >>>>>> >>>>> this way you can keep pushing forward >>>>>> and race without cover if >>>>>> >>>>> needed, >>>>>> >>>>> protecting your position, as you have >>>>>> some energy in reserve >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> If it was a 1/4 turn or less, like at >>>>>> mornington or mooney valley, >>>>>> >>>>> it may be a different matter. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> If it was a long distance race its a >>>>>> varied scenario, but its not and >>>>>> >>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>> have to >>>>>> >>>>> allow for the specific types of horse >>>>>> AND track layout in the race. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Alternately, you can sit last with >>>>>> some cover, let the others do all >>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>> work, >>>>>> >>>>> save ground on the rails, and make one >>>>>> run for the >>>>>> >>>>> line......importantly >>>>>> >>>>> on a track with a long home >>>>>> straight....... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Note, on leaders tracks most horses >>>>>> win by leading (or being with the >>>>>> >>>>> leaders) >>>>>> >>>>> most of the way, not by making runs >>>>>> early from the rear of the feild >>>>>> >>>>> to sit with the leaders before the run >>>>>> into the straight. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> >>>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:42 PM >>>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Steven, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not trying o find out who is >>>>>> the greatest f'wit. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> That is loosing the plot - it >>>>>> dosen't matter. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I just wish they would stop the >>>>>> personal abuse and debate the issues. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of steven orkas >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 8:36 >>>>>> AM >>>>>> >>>>>> To: ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava >>>>>> Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> John, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree that r >>>>>> and John T make interesting and informative >>>>>> >>>>>> posts.Where >>>>>> >>>>>> I disagree is where you imply the >>>>>> level of f'witedness, ha ha, is >>>>>> >>>>>> equal >>>>>> >>>>>> on >>>>>> >>>>>> both sides.For months r has been >>>>>> provoking John,deriding his views >>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> generally insulting him.Rather >>>>>> than simply putting forward his >>>>>> >>>>>> argument >>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> leave it at that,r seems to take a >>>>>> particular delight in baiting and >>>>>> >>>>>> demeaning people,he has tried it >>>>>> with others, but seems that John is >>>>>> >>>>>> his >>>>>> >>>>>> preferred target..I am not >>>>>> surprised that John finally lost his rag. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: glenglen at iinet.net.au >>>>>> >>>>>>> To: ausrace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 07:17:24 >>>>>> +0800 >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] >>>>>> Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> r (and JT), >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Isn't it interesting that we >>>>>> are lucky to have an owner and breeder >>>>>> >>>>>>> on >>>>>> >>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> list, who, moreover, is >>>>>> willing to give us an interest in specific >>>>>> >>>>>>> races. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> We are also lucky to have you, >>>>>> as you also give us an insight into >>>>>> >>>>>> mysteries >>>>>> >>>>>>> of which we were only vaguely >>>>>> aware, and keep us on our toes by >>>>>> >>>>>>> acting >>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>>> devils advocate. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I, for one, enjoy both of your >>>>>> posts (EXCEPT when you both act a >>>>>> >>>>>>> f'wits >>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> attack each other. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Have good ones, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of r >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2010 >>>>>> 10:26 PM >>>>>> >>>>>>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] >>>>>> Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> JT said = I was referring to a >>>>>> horse with sufficient pace to be >>>>>> >>>>>>> further >>>>>> >>>>>>> forward. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> REPLY = So why did the horse >>>>>> not have to speed to race with the >>>>>> >>>>>>> leaders. >>>>>> >>>>>>> ????????? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> JT = Isn't it interesting that >>>>>> our only winner today was midfield on >>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>>> rails before it made its >>>>>> successful run through the pack to win. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> REPLY = Thought it was a track >>>>>> with a leader bias, and you wanted >>>>>> >>>>>>> your >>>>>> >>>>>> horse >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> racing on the pace regardless >>>>>> of all else????? Did I not state a >>>>>> >>>>>>> track >>>>>> >>>>>> with >>>>>> >>>>>>> a leader bias was likely to >>>>>> lead to a hot pace setting the race up >>>>>> >>>>>>> for >>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> patient jockeys!!!!!!So much >>>>>> for you wanting your horse racing on >>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>>> pace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> regardless!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> JT = Isn't it interesting that >>>>>> my reference to Bernborough is taken, >>>>>> >>>>>> totally >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> inapproriately, out of the >>>>>> context in which I offered it, in a vain >>>>>> >>>>>> attempt >>>>>> >>>>>>> to take a cheap shot at me. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> REPLY = Actualy, it may be >>>>>> related directly to you, as it is typical >>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> owners to expect Bernborough >>>>>> performances from there own horses, >>>>>> >>>>>>> such >>>>>> >>>>>>> an >>>>>> >>>>>>> owner may expect his horse to >>>>>> make a run from 1000m out, around the >>>>>> >>>>>>> entire >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> field, in a hotly run race, >>>>>> and then go on and win the race >>>>>> >>>>>>> regardless..........sound >>>>>> familar? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> JT = Isn't it interesting that >>>>>> an 'r'fwit is so determined to attack >>>>>> >>>>>>> anything that I might offer, >>>>>> that he exposes his true level of >>>>>> >>>>>>> ignorance >>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> bias in regard to sensible >>>>>> analysis of races. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> REPLY = No, actually, I >>>>>> normaly only bother with a one line reply >>>>>> >>>>>>> (thats >>>>>> >>>>>>> all your posts are worth in >>>>>> truth), thus letting 99% of your long >>>>>> >>>>>>> winded >>>>>> >>>>>>> comments flow under the >>>>>> bridge. As this post shows, i could reply to >>>>>> >>>>>>> all >>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> your arguments highlighting >>>>>> there lack of substance, but whats de >>>>>> >>>>>>> point, >>>>>> >>>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> cant apply common sense to >>>>>> anything anyways....... >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> JT = I promise other posters >>>>>> that I will endeavour to ignore his >>>>>> >>>>>>> puerile >>>>>> >>>>>>> efforts to stir me in future. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> REPLY = Yeah yeah mr >>>>>> baldy............... how many time have we >>>>>> >>>>>>> heard >>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> at the end of your long winded >>>>>> replies......can you do all a favour >>>>>> >>>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> hold >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> that promise by not replying >>>>>> to this????????? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> > speedpcs at >>>>>> bigpond.net.au >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Sun Feb 28 06:30:50 CST >>>>>> 2010 >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Leader bias track? >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Would it be fair to >>>>>> consider that obviously most horses will >>>>>> >>>>>>> > therefore >>>>>> >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>>> > attempting to attain a >>>>>> forward position, does this mean some >>>>>> >>>>>>> > jockeys >>>>>> >>>>>> will >>>>>> >>>>>>> > have to miss out, is it >>>>>> really the jockeys fault if the horse >>>>>> >>>>>>> > lacks >>>>>> >>>>>>> > the >>>>>> >>>>>>> > speed of other horses out >>>>>> of the gates, or is it just a matter of >>>>>> >>>>>> hassling >>>>>> >>>>>>> > the horse untill it gets >>>>>> into a position, regardless.!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > So if your in the pack, >>>>>> and you want to go around horses, does it >>>>>> >>>>>>> > not >>>>>> >>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>>> > sence to first pull >>>>>> backwards, then around those horses, or do >>>>>> >>>>>>> > horses >>>>>> >>>>>> have >>>>>> >>>>>>> > magic powers that enable >>>>>> them to go through horses? >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > If its a leaders track >>>>>> there is every chance the pace will be hot, >>>>>> >>>>>>> > therefore >>>>>> >>>>>>> > if your back in the pack, >>>>>> is it really that bad to drop out to >>>>>> >>>>>>> > last >>>>>> >>>>>>> > to >>>>>> >>>>>>> > make >>>>>> >>>>>>> > sure you dont get caught >>>>>> behind tiring horses off the hot pace >>>>>> >>>>>>> > (your >>>>>> >>>>>> horse >>>>>> >>>>>>> > could not go the leaders >>>>>> pace from gates) to make sure you get a >>>>>> >>>>>>> > clear >>>>>> >>>>>> run >>>>>> >>>>>>> > out wide in the important >>>>>> latter stages of a race. >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Surely most owners >>>>>> realise it is better placing your horse so its >>>>>> >>>>>>> > on >>>>>> >>>>>>> > the >>>>>> >>>>>>> > outside of the feild >>>>>> entering the straight, than midpack on the >>>>>> >>>>>>> > rails, >>>>>> >>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>>> > surely they realise it is >>>>>> herd instint for horses not to run >>>>>> >>>>>>> > forward >>>>>> >>>>>>> > throught the middle of a >>>>>> pack? >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Is it realistic to expect >>>>>> the jockey to pull out one wide, and >>>>>> >>>>>>> > then >>>>>> >>>>>> obtain >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> > a >>>>>> >>>>>>> > dream run up to the >>>>>> leaders one of the fence WITH cover? >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Should we really expect >>>>>> opposition jockeys on the inside, to >>>>>> >>>>>>> > politely >>>>>> >>>>>> wave >>>>>> >>>>>>> > him past, so he can just >>>>>> cruise up and sit behind the leader in a >>>>>> >>>>>> perfect >>>>>> >>>>>>> > position????? >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Should we reallt expect a >>>>>> horse as being capabe of making a long >>>>>> >>>>>> sustained >>>>>> >>>>>>> > run out wide from the >>>>>> rear of the feild, on a track on a track >>>>>> >>>>>>> > with >>>>>> >>>>>>> > a >>>>>> >>>>>>> > leaders bias, that means >>>>>> a likely sustained faster pace >>>>>> >>>>>>> > throughout? >>>>>> >>>>>> Seeing >>>>>> >>>>>>> > the horse lacked the gate >>>>>> speed to race on the pace, would it now >>>>>> >>>>>>> > not >>>>>> >>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>>> > more sense to be patient >>>>>> and see if the leaders burn themselves >>>>>> >>>>>>> > out >>>>>> >>>>>>> > ,and >>>>>> >>>>>>> > wait for a last crack at >>>>>> these leaders....is it possible that this >>>>>> >>>>>> jockey >>>>>> >>>>>>> > actually knows more about >>>>>> riding than a racing butterfly with an >>>>>> >>>>>>> > ego? >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Is it all just common >>>>>> sense, or should we rather rely on the holy >>>>>> >>>>>>> > bloodstock agents to also >>>>>> advise in regards to race riding, as >>>>>> >>>>>>> > well >>>>>> >>>>>>> > as >>>>>> >>>>>>> > breeding??? >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > I guess some owners seem >>>>>> to think they own Bernborough's >>>>>> >>>>>>> > reincarnation!!!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > ----- Original Message >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>>> > From: "John Thompson" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> > To: >>>>>> ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, February >>>>>> 28, 2010 9:35 PM >>>>>> >>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] >>>>>> Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> John D >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> I'm afraid that >>>>>> ratings go out the window when your jockey (or in >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> instance your >>>>>> ex-jockey) slaughters any chance your horse has. LL >>>>>> >>>>>> should >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> have definitely run a >>>>>> place, possibly won, if only the jockey had >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> even >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> vaguely followed >>>>>> instructions. I'm not managing owner of the >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> horse, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> would never put him >>>>>> on one of mine - he has never, ever, ridden a >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> bad >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> race, or even made a >>>>>> wrong decision, it's always his horse, or in >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> case, apparently, >>>>>> other horses, which cause the problems. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Dropping >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> horse >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> out to last, totally >>>>>> contrary to instructions, on a leader-bias >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> track, >>>>>> >>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> apparently the fault >>>>>> of slow horses in front of you. If they're >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> slow, >>>>>> >>>>>> has >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> he never heard of the >>>>>> concept of going around them, one off the >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> fence, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> with cover, to make >>>>>> ground on the leaders before everybody gets >>>>>> >>>>>> cracking? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Great sectionals for >>>>>> the last 400, shame it doesn't do us any >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> good. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> John T >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> PS: TEM's jockey WAS >>>>>> following instructions, some trainers seem >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >>>>>> think >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> they're training >>>>>> Bernborough's reincarnation. At least SC means >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> that >>>>>> >>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> butterfly gets to >>>>>> stretch his wings for the fourth time in a >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> fortnight. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> JT >>>>>> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>> > AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>> > AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Looking for a place to rent, share >>>>>> or buy? Find your next place with >>>>>> >>>>>> ninemsn >>>>>> >>>>>> Property >>>>>> >>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > AusRace mailing list >>>>>> > AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > AusRace mailing list >>>>>> > AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 3 >>>>>> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 18:13:10 +0800 >>>>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Empty posts - and do they make the >>>>>> most noise? >>>>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> Message-ID: 44120881C8214FFB98F2D015E23442E1 at FYNN> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; >>>>>> charset="us-ascii" >>>>>> >>>>>> John, >>>>>> >>>>>> The digest must do it differently, because the normal forum >>>>>> does not produce >>>>>> any blank lines or smileys. >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> And, I think that he and I are having an interesting >>>>>> discussion, thanks to >>>>>> your initial post. You may note that I have been >>>>>> taking your side, but we >>>>>> really need more info re pace. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> Behalf Of John Thompson >>>>>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 3:46 PM >>>>>> To: ausrace at ausrace.com >>>>>> Subject: [AusRace] Empty posts - and do they make the most >>>>>> noise? >>>>>> >>>>>> I receive the Digest form of Ausrace because I do not have >>>>>> the time >>>>>> available to constantly monitor the back-and-forth of >>>>>> individual posts. When >>>>>> I have the time, I go to the current archives to keep >>>>>> abreast of ongoing >>>>>> discussions. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is not obvious in an individual post because one is >>>>>> unlikely to scroll >>>>>> through masses of old posts in the thread, but it is >>>>>> possible to insert >>>>>> scores (or even hundreds) of blank lines at the bottom of >>>>>> the thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Today is the first day of March. It is only 6.00 p.m. >>>>>> Central Summer Time >>>>>> and I have already received my 6th Digest for March. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do any other Digest recipients object to 'r'fwit's childish >>>>>> insertion of 124 >>>>>> blank lines and 1 line with a smiley face at line 111 of >>>>>> 125? It is at odds >>>>>> with the spirit in which Ausrace is intended to be >>>>>> conducted. Every time >>>>>> someone responds to earlier messages in the thread, another >>>>>> 125 lines are >>>>>> added to the Digest. This is why I cut and paste my >>>>>> responses. >>>>>> >>>>>> Although this behaviour does nothing but confirm my >>>>>> incredibly low opinion >>>>>> of 'r'fwit, I would be just as scathing of anyone else on >>>>>> the list, in the >>>>>> unlikely event that they would be so puerile This sort of >>>>>> behaviour has the >>>>>> capacity to destroy Ausrace as a viable forum. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any opinions? >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> John T >>>>>> >>>>>> PS: This is by no means the first time he has indulged in >>>>>> this behaviour. JT >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 4 >>>>>> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 19:23:51 +1100 >>>>>> From: "r" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> To: "AusRace Mailing List" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> A20D2F1665CB4D83879A023C406697C6 at uc40357f2c0bc4> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; >>>>>> charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>>>> reply-type=original >>>>>> >>>>>> nar IMO, play the same regardless, just keep your head up, >>>>>> ask borg....... >>>>>> >>>>>> but race riding yes, different, not sure about riding >>>>>> favourites wide as >>>>>> your still usually trying to beat the odds to win any race >>>>>> >>>>>> but yes the longshot, go for rails, lead, last, very late >>>>>> run whatever >>>>>> >>>>>> only problem with all this is, your usualy riding to please >>>>>> the owner >>>>>> and trainer (instructions), rather than actually winning? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 9:10 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > Your posts are always acceptable when you are not >>>>>> being personal. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > My doomed/ will not win was pedantism. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > My point was that all horses are not equal in the way >>>>>> they should be >>>>>> > ridden >>>>>> > - and that the tactics should depend on the chance of >>>>>> a horses winning, >>>>>> > which can be summed up by its odds. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > This is the same for all sports. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > In a final, if down, go for broke: If ahead play >>>>>> steadily. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > All horse races should be finals, unless they are >>>>>> being used as >>>>>> > preparation, >>>>>> > which, in the owner's eyes, was apparently not the >>>>>> case. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > John >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> > Behalf Of r >>>>>> > Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 3:16 PM >>>>>> > To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > if i take out the word doomed, is my quote more >>>>>> acceptable? >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> > From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> > To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:03 PM >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> So you believe in predestination?! >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I agree that most horses do not win, but that is >>>>>> different. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> On >>>>>> >> Behalf Of r >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 2:59 PM >>>>>> >> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> >> Subject: Re: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> ***Most horses may be doomed to lose >>>>>> >> based on this simple fact, only one horse >>>>>> >> can win each race outright!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> >> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:32 PM >>>>>> >> Subject: [AusRace] FW: L ittle Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> Most horses are not doomed to lose. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> The tactics and mind set should depend on a >>>>>> horse's chances. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> A red hot should not try for a miracle run >>>>>> through the field. Nor >>>>>> >>> should >>>>>> >>> it >>>>>> >>> be allowed to have a speed duel in >>>>>> front. If it is as good as its price >>>>>> >>> it >>>>>> >>> should be able to stay out of trouble and go >>>>>> around the field and win >>>>>> >>> easily. If it is caught out the back in >>>>>> a slow race it should be able >>>>>> >>> to >>>>>> >>> round them up early and not get caught flat >>>>>> footed. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> A 20/1 shot will not win if it does the >>>>>> above. It will need to be in >>>>>> >>> front >>>>>> >>> and steal the race or go for the miracle run. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> A competitive horse that is not a hot fav will >>>>>> also not be able to come >>>>>> >>> from >>>>>> >>> the back in a slow race and thus must be >>>>>> positioned well to give it >>>>>> >>> every >>>>>> >>> chance. I put John's horse in this >>>>>> category. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> It all depends on the race pace. If the >>>>>> jockey can't judge pace, try to >>>>>> >>> get >>>>>> >>> one that can. >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> John >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>> From: r [speedpcs at bigpond.net.au','','','')">speedpcs at bigpond.net.au] >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> Unless the jockey does something obviously >>>>>> wrong, i think >>>>>> >>> us spectators should a take it easy on them, >>>>>> after all, most horses >>>>>> >>> in any race are doomed to lose regardless of >>>>>> the jockey's ride, >>>>>> >>> so why take the easy target? >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> >>> To: "'r'" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au>; >>>>>> "'AusRace Mailing List'" >>>>>> >>> ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:03 PM >>>>>> >>> Subject: RE: [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> Of course >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>> On >>>>>> >>>> Behalf Of r >>>>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 10:36 AM >>>>>> >>>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> Of course a jockey should not ride against >>>>>> instructions >>>>>> >>>> for no reason >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> BUT KEEP IN MIND IT IS THE HORSE THAT IS >>>>>> DOING >>>>>> >>>> THE RUNNING, NOT THE JOCKEY!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> If his instructed to race at the rear, and >>>>>> the horse (note the horse, >>>>>> >>>> not the jockey) bounds out 3 lengths in >>>>>> front in a 900m race that >>>>>> >>>> no one else wants to lead in (as per >>>>>> instructions), he would be >>>>>> >>>> silly to then ease and race back at >>>>>> the rear all being equal >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> And if his asked to race on the pace, but >>>>>> cops a knock early, or is >>>>>> >>>> slow away, he may also be considered silly >>>>>> to ask his horse to >>>>>> >>>> make two runs in a race, or one very >>>>>> long sustained run, by asking >>>>>> >>>> it to go to early so its up on the pace by >>>>>> the home turn....... >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>> From: "r" speedpcs at bigpond.net.au> >>>>>> >>>> To: "AusRace Mailing List" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:24 PM >>>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> OK, first up, if a horse is slow away >>>>>> and is pulled to >>>>>> >>>>> the rear of the feild, that is already >>>>>> approx 200m gone. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Any decent joceky will then settle his >>>>>> mount for a couple >>>>>> >>>>> of strides and then pogress forward if >>>>>> that is his wish. >>>>>> >>>>> (and horses cover plenty of ground per >>>>>> stride) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> That means the jockeys going to be >>>>>> onto the long 1/2 turn >>>>>> >>>>> as he commences his run, and remember >>>>>> the horse already >>>>>> >>>>> lacked early speed from the gate, so >>>>>> dont make the >>>>>> >>>>> presumption that it will get to the >>>>>> front with ease, >>>>>> >>>>> and even cross the field to lead. This >>>>>> is a 1300m sprint, >>>>>> >>>>> not a 2600m canter and sprint >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> A good jockey weighs up all of the >>>>>> potential outcomes >>>>>> >>>>> of any move, and will not base a >>>>>> decision >>>>>> >>>>> and the rewards of a dream run, >>>>>> exactly as he wishes, or >>>>>> >>>>> as you described >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> You ask, Should a jockey ride agaisnt >>>>>> instructiions? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Its a sprint race, sometimes your >>>>>> horse is not on the ball, >>>>>> >>>>> or does not have the speed of the >>>>>> others on the day >>>>>> >>>>> , this is obviously the overwhelming >>>>>> factor of where a horse >>>>>> >>>>> will settle in a sprint race that >>>>>> wants to race on the pace >>>>>> >>>>> (just like most of the other horses in >>>>>> the race) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Should a jockey be encouraged to >>>>>> use common sense >>>>>> >>>>> when things dont go as planned??? >>>>>> according to the individual factors >>>>>> >>>>> of each horse, track and race? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Im not sure jockeys should be to blame >>>>>> for horses jumpring slow, >>>>>> >>>>> getting bumped and caugth behind a >>>>>> slowie on jumping, OR be >>>>>> >>>>> blamed for deciding not to make a run >>>>>> 1000m out, on a >>>>>> >>>>> turning track, in a sprinters race, on >>>>>> a horse that aleady showed >>>>>> >>>>> a lack of dash oout of the gates. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Im not quite sure non riders should be >>>>>> using a text >>>>>> >>>>> book-like mentality to work out how >>>>>> jockeys should ride >>>>>> >>>>> there races.... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I guess summing up........How a horse >>>>>> is performing on the >>>>>> >>>>> day may be considered more relevent to >>>>>> the jockey on its back >>>>>> >>>>> witnessing that first hand, compared >>>>>> to what or how the horse >>>>>> >>>>> was raced in the past, as expected >>>>>> from spectators several hundred >>>>>> >>>>> metres away in the stand IMO. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Surely, common sense must be the over >>>>>> riding factor in any jockeys >>>>>> >>>>> decision making....... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> r, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with your basic theories, >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> >>>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 2:57 PM >>>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava Race >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> r, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with your basic theories, >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If the pace is slow, then it does >>>>>> not take the sprint effort to go >>>>>> >>>>>> forward >>>>>> >>>>>> and the horse will be able to >>>>>> reach the front and cross before much >>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> turn has been used - so maybe >>>>>> 1/8th of a turn used. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You did not answer the question of >>>>>> should the jockey, all being >>>>>> >>>>>> equal, >>>>>> >>>>>> obey >>>>>> >>>>>> instructions? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> (I have a jockey rating file that >>>>>> fell off the back of a truck that >>>>>> >>>>>> puts >>>>>> >>>>>> this particular one at dead >>>>>> average (as is Plumb, who rode the winner >>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> last) at larger than little B.) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of r >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 9:39 >>>>>> AM >>>>>> >>>>>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava >>>>>> Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> JD >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If this horse is slow out of the >>>>>> gates and was pulled >>>>>> >>>>>> back to clear itself of slowies in >>>>>> front of it, its going to take >>>>>> >>>>>> a period of time for it to get >>>>>> balanced and start making >>>>>> >>>>>> ground again >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no doubt this will mean >>>>>> making ground out wide around >>>>>> >>>>>> the turn, now will the horse >>>>>> conforably do this considering its lack >>>>>> >>>>>> of early pace? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Note, the turn at little B is a >>>>>> 1/2 turn, not a quarter turn as with >>>>>> >>>>>> many sprint races. (getting caught >>>>>> wide on a 1/2 turn is far worse >>>>>> >>>>>> than a 1/4 turn. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Should we consider a horses >>>>>> galloping thershold here, that is its max >>>>>> >>>>>> speed, which once elasped, leaves >>>>>> it galloping at a speed that is >>>>>> >>>>>> no longer efficient. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How does a horse reach this speed >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> #1. By being pushed harder than it >>>>>> naturaly wants to gallop >>>>>> >>>>>> #2. By being pushed wide around >>>>>> turns (it has to gallop faster just >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> keep >>>>>> >>>>>> pace) >>>>>> >>>>>> #3. By being asked to make ground >>>>>> from the rear >>>>>> >>>>>> #4. By being asked to make ground >>>>>> without first being able to balance >>>>>> >>>>>> #5. By being asked to make ground >>>>>> in a *sprint race where horse will >>>>>> >>>>>> already >>>>>> >>>>>> be close to the max speed despite >>>>>> what appearence or times may tell >>>>>> >>>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> #5,. A combination of any of the >>>>>> above factors only compounds this. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> (In contrast, going back to last >>>>>> on a turning track, riding >>>>>> >>>>>> patiently, >>>>>> >>>>>> waiting for the long hone >>>>>> straight, can help combat this.) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Once a horse reaches this >>>>>> thershold, for every length it makes up, >>>>>> >>>>>> it loses many more in saved >>>>>> energy, and make no mistake, >>>>>> >>>>>> this will cost it later in the >>>>>> race, especialy if used up so early in >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>> race, or >>>>>> >>>>>> during a sustained run. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Now to expect a *sprint horse to >>>>>> make a run from 1000m out in a >>>>>> >>>>>> sprint >>>>>> >>>>>> race >>>>>> >>>>>> around a long turn, to enable it >>>>>> to come from last to sit behind the >>>>>> >>>>>> leaders >>>>>> >>>>>> wide, >>>>>> >>>>>> and then expect it to continue to >>>>>> go on and win the race with a long >>>>>> >>>>>> straight >>>>>> >>>>>> , would need a horse that was 1 or >>>>>> 2 classess above the opposition. >>>>>> >>>>>> Why rely on the horse being a >>>>>> class above to win a race???? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> IMPORTANT, Keep in mind 1300m >>>>>> horses are *sprinters, they are not >>>>>> >>>>>> made >>>>>> >>>>>> to produce long sustained runs >>>>>> like a stayer may. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A sprinter can put in a short >>>>>> sprint with little effort, but ask it >>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>> one 1000m >>>>>> >>>>>> run and your simply asking to >>>>>> much.........and by expecting it to >>>>>> >>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>> ground >>>>>> >>>>>> from last around a long turn you >>>>>> are asking for exactly this. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Aslo jockeys are unlikely to risk >>>>>> being boxed in by letting a horse >>>>>> >>>>>> cruise >>>>>> >>>>>> up >>>>>> >>>>>> and sit with cover behind the >>>>>> leaders approaching the home turn, a >>>>>> >>>>>> jockey >>>>>> >>>>>> making such a run can be expected >>>>>> to be pushed even wider, and may >>>>>> >>>>>> have >>>>>> >>>>>> to race without cover to protect >>>>>> that position or risk getting boxed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> He also increase the risk of >>>>>> producing a huge wall of horses of which >>>>>> >>>>>> he >>>>>> >>>>>> will be >>>>>> >>>>>> widest around a turn. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, what happens if you make >>>>>> your run early, and you get bloacked >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> >>>>>> have >>>>>> >>>>>> to ease, thats it, your wide and >>>>>> goign backwards, and then want to >>>>>> >>>>>> start >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>> second run again.....!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This is why most jockeys consider >>>>>> it standard to leave there run till >>>>>> >>>>>> later, >>>>>> >>>>>> this way you can keep pushing >>>>>> forward and race without cover if >>>>>> >>>>>> needed, >>>>>> >>>>>> protecting your position, as you >>>>>> have some energy in reserve >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If it was a 1/4 turn or less, like >>>>>> at mornington or mooney valley, >>>>>> >>>>>> it may be a different matter. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If it was a long distance race its >>>>>> a varied scenario, but its not and >>>>>> >>>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>>> have to >>>>>> >>>>>> allow for the specific types of >>>>>> horse AND track layout in the race. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Alternately, you can sit last with >>>>>> some cover, let the others do all >>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> work, >>>>>> >>>>>> save ground on the rails, and make >>>>>> one run for the >>>>>> >>>>>> line......importantly >>>>>> >>>>>> on a track with a long home >>>>>> straight....... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Note, on leaders tracks most >>>>>> horses win by leading (or being with the >>>>>> >>>>>> leaders) >>>>>> >>>>>> most of the way, not by making >>>>>> runs early from the rear of the feild >>>>>> >>>>>> to sit with the leaders before the >>>>>> run into the straight. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> From: "John Doepel" glenglen at iinet.net.au> >>>>>> >>>>>> To: "'AusRace Mailing List'" >>>>>> ausrace at ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 1:42 >>>>>> PM >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] Balaklava >>>>>> Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Steven, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not trying o find out who >>>>>> is the greatest f'wit. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> That is loosing the plot - it >>>>>> dosen't matter. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I just wish they would stop >>>>>> the personal abuse and debate the >>>>>> >>>>>>> issues. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of steven orkas >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, 1 March 2010 >>>>>> 8:36 AM >>>>>> >>>>>>> To: ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] >>>>>> Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> John, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree >>>>>> that r and John T make interesting and informative >>>>>> >>>>>>> posts.Where >>>>>> >>>>>>> I disagree is where you imply >>>>>> the level of f'witedness, ha ha, is >>>>>> >>>>>>> equal >>>>>> >>>>>>> on >>>>>> >>>>>>> both sides.For months r has >>>>>> been provoking John,deriding his views >>>>>> >>>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> generally insulting him.Rather >>>>>> than simply putting forward his >>>>>> >>>>>>> argument >>>>>> >>>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> leave it at that,r seems to >>>>>> take a particular delight in baiting and >>>>>> >>>>>>> demeaning people,he has tried >>>>>> it with others, but seems that John is >>>>>> >>>>>>> his >>>>>> >>>>>>> preferred target..I am not >>>>>> surprised that John finally lost his rag. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: glenglen at iinet.net.au >>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: ausrace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 >>>>>> 07:17:24 +0800 >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] >>>>>> Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> r (and JT), >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Isn't it interesting that >>>>>> we are lucky to have an owner and breeder >>>>>> >>>>>>>> on >>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>>> list, who, moreover, is >>>>>> willing to give us an interest in specific >>>>>> >>>>>>>> races. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> We are also lucky to have >>>>>> you, as you also give us an insight into >>>>>> >>>>>>> mysteries >>>>>> >>>>>>>> of which we were only >>>>>> vaguely aware, and keep us on our toes by >>>>>> >>>>>>>> acting >>>>>> >>>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> devils advocate. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I, for one, enjoy both of >>>>>> your posts (EXCEPT when you both act a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> f'wits >>>>>> >>>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>>> attack each other. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Have good ones, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original >>>>>> Message----- >>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>>> [ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com','','','')">ausrace-bounces at ausrace.com] >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Behalf Of r >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 28 February >>>>>> 2010 10:26 PM >>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: AusRace Mailing List >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AusRace] >>>>>> Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> JT said = I was referring >>>>>> to a horse with sufficient pace to be >>>>>> >>>>>>>> further >>>>>> >>>>>>>> forward. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> REPLY = So why did the >>>>>> horse not have to speed to race with the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> leaders. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> ????????? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> JT = Isn't it interesting >>>>>> that our only winner today was midfield >>>>>> >>>>>>>> on >>>>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> rails before it made its >>>>>> successful run through the pack to win. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> REPLY = Thought it was a >>>>>> track with a leader bias, and you wanted >>>>>> >>>>>>>> your >>>>>> >>>>>>> horse >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> racing on the pace >>>>>> regardless of all else????? Did I not state a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> track >>>>>> >>>>>>> with >>>>>> >>>>>>>> a leader bias was likely >>>>>> to lead to a hot pace setting the race up >>>>>> >>>>>>>> for >>>>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> patient jockeys!!!!!!So >>>>>> much for you wanting your horse racing on >>>>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> pace >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> regardless!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> JT = Isn't it interesting >>>>>> that my reference to Bernborough is >>>>>> >>>>>>>> taken, >>>>>> >>>>>>> totally >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> inapproriately, out of the >>>>>> context in which I offered it, in a vain >>>>>> >>>>>>> attempt >>>>>> >>>>>>>> to take a cheap shot at >>>>>> me. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> REPLY = Actualy, it may be >>>>>> related directly to you, as it is >>>>>> >>>>>>>> typical >>>>>> >>>>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>>> owners to expect >>>>>> Bernborough performances from there own horses, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> such >>>>>> >>>>>>>> an >>>>>> >>>>>>>> owner may expect his horse >>>>>> to make a run from 1000m out, around the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> entire >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> field, in a hotly run >>>>>> race, and then go on and win the race >>>>>> >>>>>>>> regardless..........sound >>>>>> familar? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> JT = Isn't it interesting >>>>>> that an 'r'fwit is so determined to >>>>>> >>>>>>>> attack >>>>>> >>>>>>>> anything that I might >>>>>> offer, that he exposes his true level of >>>>>> >>>>>>>> ignorance >>>>>> >>>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> bias in regard to sensible >>>>>> analysis of races. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> REPLY = No, actually, I >>>>>> normaly only bother with a one line reply >>>>>> >>>>>>>> (thats >>>>>> >>>>>>>> all your posts are worth >>>>>> in truth), thus letting 99% of your long >>>>>> >>>>>>>> winded >>>>>> >>>>>>>> comments flow under the >>>>>> bridge. As this post shows, i could reply >>>>>> >>>>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>>>> all >>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>>> your arguments >>>>>> highlighting there lack of substance, but whats de >>>>>> >>>>>>>> point, >>>>>> >>>>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> cant apply common sense to >>>>>> anything anyways....... >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> JT = I promise other >>>>>> posters that I will endeavour to ignore his >>>>>> >>>>>>>> puerile >>>>>> >>>>>>>> efforts to stir me in >>>>>> future. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> REPLY = Yeah yeah mr >>>>>> baldy............... how many time have we >>>>>> >>>>>>>> heard >>>>>> >>>>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> at the end of your long >>>>>> winded replies......can you do all a favour >>>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> hold >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> that promise by not >>>>>> replying to this????????? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > speedpcs at >>>>>> bigpond.net.au >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Sun Feb 28 06:30:50 >>>>>> CST 2010 >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Leader bias track? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Would it be fair to >>>>>> consider that obviously most horses will >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > therefore >>>>>> >>>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > attempting to attain >>>>>> a forward position, does this mean some >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > jockeys >>>>>> >>>>>>> will >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > have to miss out, is >>>>>> it really the jockeys fault if the horse >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > lacks >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > speed of other horses >>>>>> out of the gates, or is it just a matter of >>>>>> >>>>>>> hassling >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > the horse untill it >>>>>> gets into a position, regardless.!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > So if your in the >>>>>> pack, and you want to go around horses, does it >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > not >>>>>> >>>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > sence to first pull >>>>>> backwards, then around those horses, or do >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > horses >>>>>> >>>>>>> have >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > magic powers that >>>>>> enable them to go through horses? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > If its a leaders >>>>>> track there is every chance the pace will be >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > hot, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > therefore >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > if your back in the >>>>>> pack, is it really that bad to drop out to >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > last >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > to >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > make >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > sure you dont get >>>>>> caught behind tiring horses off the hot pace >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > (your >>>>>> >>>>>>> horse >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > could not go the >>>>>> leaders pace from gates) to make sure you get a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > clear >>>>>> >>>>>>> run >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > out wide in the >>>>>> important latter stages of a race. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Surely most owners >>>>>> realise it is better placing your horse so its >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > on >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > outside of the feild >>>>>> entering the straight, than midpack on the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > rails, >>>>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > surely they realise >>>>>> it is herd instint for horses not to run >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > forward >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > throught the middle >>>>>> of a pack? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Is it realistic to >>>>>> expect the jockey to pull out one wide, and >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > then >>>>>> >>>>>>> obtain >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > dream run up to the >>>>>> leaders one of the fence WITH cover? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Should we really >>>>>> expect opposition jockeys on the inside, to >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > politely >>>>>> >>>>>>> wave >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > him past, so he can >>>>>> just cruise up and sit behind the leader in a >>>>>> >>>>>>> perfect >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > position????? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Should we reallt >>>>>> expect a horse as being capabe of making a long >>>>>> >>>>>>> sustained >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > run out wide from the >>>>>> rear of the feild, on a track on a track >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > with >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > leaders bias, that >>>>>> means a likely sustained faster pace >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > throughout? >>>>>> >>>>>>> Seeing >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > the horse lacked the >>>>>> gate speed to race on the pace, would it now >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > not >>>>>> >>>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > more sense to be >>>>>> patient and see if the leaders burn themselves >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > out >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ,and >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > wait for a last crack >>>>>> at these leaders....is it possible that >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > this >>>>>> >>>>>>> jockey >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > actually knows more >>>>>> about riding than a racing butterfly with an >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ego? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Is it all just common >>>>>> sense, or should we rather rely on the holy >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > bloodstock agents to >>>>>> also advise in regards to race riding, as >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > well >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > as >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > breeding??? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > I guess some owners >>>>>> seem to think they own Bernborough's >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> reincarnation!!!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > ----- Original >>>>>> Message ----- >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > From: "John Thompson" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > To: >>>>>> ausrace.com> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, >>>>>> February 28, 2010 9:35 PM >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: >>>>>> [AusRace] Balaklava Race 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> John D >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> I'm afraid that >>>>>> ratings go out the window when your jockey (or >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> instance your >>>>>> ex-jockey) slaughters any chance your horse has. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> LL >>>>>> >>>>>>> should >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> have definitely >>>>>> run a place, possibly won, if only the jockey >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> had >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> even >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> vaguely followed >>>>>> instructions. I'm not managing owner of the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> horse, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> and >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> would never put >>>>>> him on one of mine - he has never, ever, ridden >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> bad >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> race, or even >>>>>> made a wrong decision, it's always his horse, or >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> in >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> this >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> case, apparently, >>>>>> other horses, which cause the problems. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> Dropping >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> horse >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> out to last, >>>>>> totally contrary to instructions, on a leader-bias >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> track, >>>>>> >>>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> apparently the >>>>>> fault of slow horses in front of you. If they're >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> slow, >>>>>> >>>>>>> has >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> he never heard of >>>>>> the concept of going around them, one off the >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> fence, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> with cover, to >>>>>> make ground on the leaders before everybody gets >>>>>> >>>>>>> cracking? >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> Great sectionals >>>>>> for the last 400, shame it doesn't do us any >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> good. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> John T >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> PS: TEM's jockey >>>>>> WAS following instructions, some trainers seem >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> to >>>>>> >>>>>>> think >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> they're training >>>>>> Bernborough's reincarnation. At least SC means >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> that >>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> butterfly gets to >>>>>> stretch his wings for the fourth time in a >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> fortnight. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> JT >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>>> > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>:) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>> Looking for a place to rent, >>>>>> share or buy? Find your next place with >>>>>> >>>>>>> ninemsn >>>>>> >>>>>>> Property >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/ >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> >> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> >> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > AusRace mailing list >>>>>> > AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > AusRace mailing list >>>>>> > AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> > http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> End of AusRace Digest, Vol 25, Issue 7 >>>>>> ************************************** >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> AusRace mailing list >>>>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>>>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> AusRace mailing list >>> AusRace at ausrace.com >>> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >> >> _______________________________________________ >> AusRace mailing list >> AusRace at ausrace.com >> http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace >> > >_______________________________________________ >AusRace mailing list >AusRace at ausrace.com >http://ausrace.com/mailman/listinfo/ausrace
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